Archie Sonic vs IDW Sonic rating double-standard?

[Amexim]

So... I was gonna make a composite sonic profile for myself, and I was gathering all of the profiles of Sonic— The Post Genesis Wave Version has an FTL rating with the justification of the story's events being similar to the game continuity's.

IDW is in the exact same boat?

So can we get a "Likely", "Possibly" or a flat out FTL for that Sonic orrr no? I mean, Sonic X and Boom are clearly different continuities, but this is directly after Sonic Forces and every other main game. Am I missing a thread where this was discussed? If so, point me to it and you can close this if this was already decided on.

 

[Amexim]

Specific thing...

Speed: FTL (The events of the Post-Genesis Wave timeline mainly follows [Albeit with some differences] the game continuity from the start, which includes Sonic speed. Definitely one of the faster characters in the verse, has outstripped foes like Quickman with his incredible speed, is consistently called the "fastest thing alive" by the creators. Can react to and evade laser beams and is comparable to individuals who can do the same)

 

[ElixirBlue]

I think IDW Sonic is being judged on what happens in the book, not what happened in Forces. Because IDW Sonic is going into it's own lore and probably wouldn't cleanly adapt the next Sonic game.

Also, IDW wiki pages for other Sonic characters in Vs Battle wiki has yet to be made. I guess it's because they haven't displayed anything unique to their game counterparts, unlike Sonic who has the Metal virus.

 

[Amexim]

Yeah, we should judge it based on the continuity as a whole or change Archie Sonics speed rating. Or at least the justification. The lore can be different and not follow the current game continuity and still have the same events and in the past as the original games. Because that exact logici can be applied to Archie Sonic.

 

[ElixirBlue]

"Change Archie Sonic's speed rating?" Why?

 

[Amexim]

Because it's scaled off of the game continuity. If we're treating IDW like this, Post Genesis Wave Archie shouldn't get a pass either.

Which is only the ultimatum because I think we should give IDW Sonic FTL for the same reasons Archie Does.

 

[ElixirBlue]

But Pre-Genesis Archie Sonic has his own speed feat separate from the games.

 

[Amexim]

Post. Post. Post.

 

[ElixirBlue]

Ah, Post. I honestly don't remember a notable speed feats from Post other than what you would naturally assume of Sonic's jog speed.

 

[Amexim]

Yeah, see? I think it's reasonable to assume IDW is FTL just like his Game Counterpart due to having the same games be canon to its continuity, and therefore the same statements and feats should apply.

 

[ElixirBlue]

Post Genesis Wave

Speed: FTL (The events of the Post-Genesis Wave timeline mainly follows [Albeit with some differences] the game continuity from the start, which includes Sonic speed. Definitely one of the faster characters in the verse, has outstripped foes like Quickman with his incredible speed, is consistently called the "fastest thing alive" by the creators. Can react to and evade laser beams and is comparable to individuals who can do the same)

 

[ElixirBlue]

Yeah, by this Standard, IDW should be at least FTL.

Edit: Well, actually, I take that back. Post does have feats when you take in the 2nd Crossover.

 

[Amexim]

FtL feats in base?

Irrelevant because it's still the same justification overall.

 

[ElixirBlue]

Sonic got Robotized in the crossover. It didn't increase his speed and when Flash Man used his Time Stop ability, Post Sonic just ran through it.

 

[Epsilon_R]

That's just Time Stop resistance

 

[ShakeResounding]

Believe it or not, from what I've heard, it actually could be taken as an Infinite Speed feat. What the reasons were, I can't remember and can't find.

Regardless, the OP at least brings up a valid issue that this is double standards. However, weren't there some FTL feats for Post-Gen Sonic anyways? At least, that's what I've heard.

 

[Amexim]

If they exist:

A. Why aren't they listed or linked to or even referenced on his sheet?

B. Why are we connecting him to the main game continuity as the first justification, as if it's the strongest one?

And even if that's true, it doesn't change the fact that it's still valid to scale IDW to the game Sonic, as they're literally from the same continuity up to the most recent main game.

 

[Amexim]

Bump

 

[Executor_N0]

Archie Post-Genesis Wave It is confirmed in the story itself and by the producers as taking place in a world where the events of some games took place, and games with the FTL feats (Like Sonic Colors DS) were referenced directly. Since there was no statement of "only valid at a certain level", so the version of the games is scaled to the APGW.

With IDW Sonic it is reaffirmed several times that despite being a game-inspired world with similar events, only what can be seen to happen in comics is valid, even the producers have never suggested to follow the other products to know the story of IDW! Sonic. Therefore, only what is observed in the comic itself can be scaled.

 

[Amexim]

So, even though we don't take word of god to be anything definitive for most things... We'll do it for this? Why would we need explicit words from the authors we assume dead to justify the obvious facts we're given?

"even the producers have never suggested to follow the other products to know the story of IDW!"

This sounds like you're referring to the occasions that had footnotes directly pointing to the other media. Which, for multiple reasons, is no greater evidence that they follow the same basis but branch off after a certain point than what IDW already does. It's just suddenly WoG/Narration.

There's several things wrong with the idea that a footnote or an explicit statement from writers is necessary to confirm what is already plain to see. You state that we can only trust what the Comics give us on its own as continuity, but why is this the default assumption when the presentation of events like Generations and literally the Game it's supposed to be jumping off from are explicitly a part of past events. Honestly, we're more assuming extra things than being conservative when we assume the events alluded to are not exactly the same as the older ones, with 0 evidence to support that. It's an argument from ignorance.

But, if there's an explicit statement from authors that says the feats from the games aren't applicable to the comic, then... I guess? Again, the way you contrast the two and how you describe IDW implies that there WAS a statement by authors that makes the games "valid to a certain point". Which, given how hard they're working on keeping the origin of the characters intact and as close to the source material as possible, is unlikely. Do you have any positive evidence to support the idea that this perspective should be used as opposed to the basic assumption that's based on what we're given in the comics?

 

[ElixirBlue]

Believe it or not, from what I've heard, it actually could be taken as an Infinite Speed feat. What the reasons were, I can't remember and can't find.

I'm one of those people who believe Post Sonic's resistance to Time Stop came from his speed. That's a speed feat in the comic. IDW Sonic is still young. I believe Ian Flynn will raise the current speed listed for Sonic as the comic goes on.

 

[Amexim]

But we're assuming he'd "Raise" the current listed speed by showing us bigger feats over the comic's run. When we're... Assuming he's slower than he should be. It's wishful thinking that has... No need to genuinely apply to the ratings we have. We're lowballing.

 

[Executor_N0]

This sounds like you're referring to the occasions that had footnotes directly pointing to the other media. Which, for multiple reasons, is no greater evidence that they follow the same basis but branch off after a certain point than what IDW already does. It's just suddenly WoG/Narration

No .What I wanted to refer to is that in interviews about Archie! Sonic, it was always said "The following games are canonical to the Comics timeline", simply as that.

While with IDW! Sonic every time that someone says "Should we assume that the games and the comics share the same events from the comics timeline?" the answer is always "No, no, no. This comic is new, new, new. It can be assumed that similar events may have occurred, but they should not be assumed to be the same. Whatever you need to know about the past will be said in comic"

Every time that someone asked something in the Official Facebook Group for IDW!Sonic about the canon, the answer is always "Games are not canon for comics, similar events may or may not have occurred in history. They are two completely separate canons that do not overlap, etc." (I remember one person asking about Sonic Force comics and the answer being straightforward that they are not canonical for IDW! Sonic but can't find this conversation)

And this is a solid topic in every Q&A/Interview, be it in facebook, twitter, youtube or Official Interviews like the one at SXSW.

It's more a matter of the production team. With Archie! Sonic there was no doubt, games were directly canonical for comics, they were on the same timeline (From a Comics point of view). With IDW!Sonic, this isn't true. This is the official opinion of the production team.

 

[Amexim]

Ohhhh. Cool. Someone put that on, like, a page somewhere for everyone to see it. Or maybe i'm just dumb.

Either way, since that is true, this can be closed. Thank you.