Arthur Leywin Speed Downgrade

[Livinmeme]

The attack hit me ≠ I'm seeing this attack hit me
If you think Arthur's case is the former despite clear differences in narration, then there's nothing more i can say that'll change your mind
So we'll just have to agree to disagree

He isn't seeing the attack hitting him, he is describing how he felt the attack hitting him.

 

[Testarossa002]

Are the votes going to be written down soon?

The current votes are worthless (pun intended)
Only certain staff votes have any real value here

 

[Testarossa002]

the assumption that all he had to do was react when the spell was first cast is irrelevant to the explanation of the scene. But before explaining this point I'm going to summarize the scene as a whole, because after rereading the scans there are presuppositions of t'a par that haven't been demonstrated or that are no longer relevant, taking all the panels.


1 - The first action is Kezess activating the "static void" spell -> it's a time stop spell based on omnidirectional propagation (via Arthur's descritipn who describes the world progressively freezing with the propagation of the wave)
-> Quote : "Kezess made a short, sharp cutting motion with one hand, and aether flared outward from him, rippling through the atmosphere, causing the world itself to harden and go still. The mana particles drifting in the air were motionless, and a string of herbs, which had
been slowly rotating in the subtle air currents, froze."


2 - The second action or important element is the wave reaching Arthur's coordinates, so the wave is at his level, Arthur describes that he feels it. Then he describes the time beginning to freeze -> this is logical, as the wave is at his level and the wave is the sign of the propagation of the time stop. In his description, he semantically adds the element of the time stop at the same time as the wave's propagation, and this will be explained with the different steps.
-> Quote : "Then the ripple rolled over me, and I felt time stopping"


3 - The third element that will answer your “debunk” on why Arthur didn't react at the beginning. While Arthur is being hit by the Time Stop wave, he has a flashback in which he remembers Elder Rinnia managing to escape it, and it's after this flashback that he pulls himself out of the timestop. But basically, he didn't react before because he didn't have the knowledge that he could to resist the attack because it was the mental unblocking by thinking of Rinnia that enabled him to do so, and this will be demonstrated in the 4th action.
-> Quote : "My mind flashed back to a time before the Relictombs, before my draconic form, before Sylvie's sacrifice.
I remembered sitting with Elder Rinia. I'd been suspicious about the nature of her powers, and so activated Static Void without warning. She'd used aether to counter me, freeing herself from the time-stop spell."


4 - Arthur describes how, using his instincts, he wrapped himself in Aether, enabling him to extricate himself from the wave that was coming into contact with him. My explanation here is simple: given that he escaped from the wave that was described as surrounding him, this means that the wave didn't completely pass through his position, otherwise he wouldn't have been able to get away from it. In action number 2, he was in the process of catching the wave, but at no point was it specified that the wave had passed completely over him. In short, there's a difference between having the wave at your level and having it completely overwhelm you. Knowing that, as explained in the description of action 2, Arthur began to feel time freeze on his person precisely because the wave was at his level and unfurling on his body, but this again doesn't mean that it completely overtook his body if it was unfurling on him. As it spread over Arthur's body, he reacted by pure instinct, just before he was completely buried, and that's why it's explained when he says he escaped the wave. He couldn't have escaped if he'd completely passed over it because he escaped by putting Aether on his body -> his body didn't move.
-> Quote : "Reacting on pure instinct, i pushed outward against the ripple with a burst of my own Aether"

Then I'll move on to your last point about describing events, and I'll use the example of classroom of the elite, which is what you used as an example to try to debunk Arthur's perception through description. In Classroom of the Elite in Volume 3 of Year 2, in the island arc with Kushida's POV when she confronts Ichika in the forest, she gets blitzed and we as the reader don't get a description of Ichika's action, it's after she's been hit that Kushida assumes via several factors (pain and marks) that she's been hit but this is presented to us after the action has taken place. In Arthur's case, there's nothing to make us assume that he didn't perceive the time stop, either narratively or semantically.

To sum up, Arthur has indeed reacted to the time stop and this shouldn't change anything in the calculation, except for an increase.

I would suggest reading this post if you haven't
Arthur perceived:
1. The aether flaring from Kezess
2. Said Aether rippling through the atmosphere
It was after the events above that the rippling aether got to Arthur's location

 

[Korf3ll]

Are the votes going to be written down soon?

it's only the admin/thread modo vote who really count so idk about that but i count around 2/3 agree with the downgrade, 7 disagree with the downgrade and 1 neutral

 

[Nierre]

yeah disagree fra

 

[Makai641001]

Arthur is considered MFTL+ due to this calculation, but that's incorrect as the passage makes it clear that Arthur didn't react to the speed at which the ripple (time stop) traveled or create a barrier before it reached him:

Instead, he created the barrier after it had already rolled over him, just before the effects fully took place.

This is further supported by the following line:

Which this implies that they can only counter it after it has already made contact with them

In short, Arthur shouldn't scale to the speed at which the aether/ripple travels since he didn't react to it in the first place.


Neutral:
Agree:
Disagree:

Is there any statement or showings about the time stop effecting the entire 4-A range in 1 to 10 seconds ?

This timestop is a wave not your typical Dio bs instantly stopping time everywhere.

The statement about stopping the « world » is followed by a description of things gradually stopping.

Maybe I miss something but it seems weird to me.

If y’all have evidence this should be closed.

Edit: just saw the verse only has FTL+ calcs and MFTL scaling besides of this calc.

 

[Testarossa002]

The statement about stopping the « world » is followed by a description of things gradually stopping

Uh...no? The stopping was as immediate as it could be

Kezess made a short, sharp cutting motion with one hand, and aether flared outward from him, rippling through the atmosphere, causing the world itself to harden and go still. The mana particles drifting in the air were motionless, and a string of herbs, which had been slowly rotating in the subtle air currents, froze. Then the ripple rolled over me, and I felt time stopping.

Is there any statement or showings about the time stop effecting the entire 4-A range in 1 to 10 seconds ?

As seen above, the world itself hardened and went still

Edit: just saw the verse only has FTL+ calcs and MFTL scaling besides of this calc.

I mean....sure?
It looks outliery but only Arthur's Perceptions scales
The characters/attacks of those who scale to/above his perceptions are stupidly faster than the MFTL characters to the point where they can perception blitz them. Not an exaggeration as they're called "impossibly fast" compared to mftl characters

Aether condensed in my muscles and joints, and Burst Step, powered by hundreds of precisely timed explosions of aether, carried me back across the room in a near-instant blink. Aether burst along my shoulders, biceps, elbow, forearm, and wrist, and shrouded my fist protectively, delivering an impossibly fast and powerful blow at the end of my step.
The blow landed against Cecilia’s chest even as her eyes remained focused on where I had been a moment before.

 

[Makai641001]

Uh...no? The stopping was as immediate as it could be
As seen above, the world itself hardened and went still

• "Aether flared outward from him, rippling through the atmosphere" —> This suggests a wave-like effect, with the power spreading outward from Kezess like ripples in a pond.
• "Causing the world itself to harden and go still" —> This shows the result, but doesn't contradict the ripple effect it simply indicates that stillness follows as the ripple passes.
• "The mana particles drifting in the air were motionless, and a string of herbs...froze." —> The text points out individual signs of motion stopping as the ripple reaches them.
• "Then the ripple rolled over me, and I felt time stopping." —> Crucially, Arthur feels time stopping after the ripple reaches him.

No the stopping isn’t immediate.

So should we consider the ripple instantly stopping time on a 4-A range despite having gradual description about things stopping ?

Also « causing the world itself to harden » seems like flowery language here as the effects are shown to be local and specifically due to the ripple.

I mean....sure?
It looks outliery but only Arthur's Perceptions scales
The characters/attacks of those who scale to/above his perceptions are stupidly faster than the MFTL characters to the point where they can perception blitz them.

Which can’t be quantified

Not an exaggeration as they're called "impossibly fast" compared to mftl characters

I see what you mean but i’m kinda neutral this seems to be relying on multiple assumptions and to be multiplying the previous speed scaling by a lot.

 

[Worthless]

This timestop is a wave not your typical Dio bs instantly stopping time everywhere.

I've thought about that. It's not the typical time stop. This one actually travels. I'm not even sure if the site actually includes this kind of time stop in its "all time stops are assumed to have universal range unless proven otherwise" rule. I probably should have asked about it first.

And it's genuinely weird to say the aether reaches all the way to neighboring stars just because the site says so and not the novel itself. That's almost no different from saying time stop users in this verse have 4-A aether reserves

 

[Makai641001]

I've thought about that. It's not the typical time stop. This one actually travels. I'm not even sure if the site actually includes this kind of time stop in its "all time stops are assumed to have universal range unless proven otherwise" rule. I probably should have asked about it first.

The burden is on the supporters to prove that it would be a universal range time stop.

By default, the range of time manipulation is considered universal unless explicitly demonstrated or specified otherwise.

It’s explicitly demonstrated to be a wave that progressively stop time.

And it's genuinely weird to say the aether reaches all the way to neighboring stars just because the site says so and not the novel itself. That's almost no different from saying time stop users in this verse have 4-A aether reserves

Idrk the verse but yeah feels weird.

 

[Bitllin12]

I've thought about that. It's not the typical time stop. This one actually travels. I'm not even sure if the site actually includes this kind of time stop in its "all time stops are assumed to have universal range unless proven otherwise" rule. I probably should have asked about it first.

And it's genuinely weird to say the aether reaches all the way to neighboring stars just because the site says so and not the novel itself. That's almost no different from saying time stop users in this verse have 4-A aether reserves

Spoiler

Arthur created the aether core (the first layer) over his old broken white mana core. Arthur initially describes the reserve of his core as a bucket of water. And that same Arthur is more powerful than a mage with a white core, who are capable of creating a black hole—not to mention that aether is more efficient than mana.

Aether responds to intention; it is not manipulated through power reserves. Dragons do not have aether reserves—only Arthur possesses an aether core.

-> Quote : The mana particles in the atmosphere had all been colorless, unable to be used within the void of frozen time, but what did glow all around me were the motes of purple.

Lady Myre had told me that while I could sense aether due to my affinity for all four elements, I might never be able to consciously control them outside of borrowing the power of Static Void.

Still, I tried. As crazy as it sounded, I called out to the floating specks of aether to help me somehow. I shouted, I pleaded, I prayed within the frozen realm and just when I thought nothing would work, some of the particles began congregating around Dawn’s Ballad, coating its blade in a hue of purple.

-> Quote : "You're starving me out," she said, calm but forceful. "The aether is barely reacting to me. You're holding it all in your sway. You and...whatever else is here, with us. The power trying to come through with Epheotus."
I understood. What little atmospheric aether had existed here had been absorbed and utilized in the first seconds of this event, before I'd even broken the outer layer of my core to expend its reserved aether. The only aether remaining was my own, channeled through the godrunes to act on the Relictombs and Epheotus. Of course, Myre was no more capable of accessing the aether lapping around the world's edges than I was.

----

Aether arts are conceptualizations of the user, so Arthur perceives the Static Void aether art (time stopped) in the form of a wave.

-> Quote : “Our people were limited by our physical bodies. We struggled not with gaining insight, but rather in figuring out ways to allow our fragile bodies to handle the burden of aether. “I may be speculating, but I believe your new rune took on the appearance of lightning not because it is lightning, but because that was how you conceptualized the abstract nature of that specific branch of aether,” the crystal went on. “So the dragons of the Indrath Clan weren’t able to control aether like your people could, or like I am able to?” I asked. “They have the physique and aptitude to handle aether but not the knowledge and insights to conceptualize aether as their own, right?”
----
-> Quote : “I’m not ready to give up yet,” I thought, trying to peel away a quadrant of my webbed thoughts toward the problem.
The web stretched and stretched until it was on the edge of tearing apart. King’s Gambit burned on my back and inside the gray matter of my brain, and the crown on my brow cast god rays down through my vision. Aether flooded through an entirely new network of sensory neurons, activated and empowered by the godrune. But there were no free threads to take up the problem. I was at the edge of King’s Gambit’s abilities. I couldn’t stretch it any farther.

The aether. My insight into the godrune—or the aspect of aether that it represented—had already expanded significantly in these few moments. Aether is…consciousness manifest as pure reality. The beginning and end of space, time, and life. The spark of thought contained within the semi-aware consciousness. And so King’s Gambit is…what?

I saw not only the threads themselves, each its own unique and individual thought, but also the space between the threads. And in doing so, I saw that, really, there were no branches, or threads, or even the spiderweb construct. These were just metaphors for the altered nature of my thoughts, as each idea was far more complex than a simple branch or thread. They were each their own aetheric consciousnesses, each a complex multi-dimensional structure in which to house the unfolding of simultaneous considerations.


It may not be explicitly stated that Static Void extends throughout the entire universe, but it is implied that the abilities of the aether do affect on a universal scale.

-> Quote : "How would you manipulate the world itself?" I pressed.
"It's become habit to say 'manipulate,' but in actuality, it is important to think of it instead as influencing aether. And you've already had a taste of this quite a few times, my dear. Windsom mentioned you being able to stop time for a brief moment." Myre set the cup

-> Quote : I opened my mouth to speak, but had no voice. I just need...a bit more time.
Sylvie nodded. Her eyes shut tight. And power and aether, in the form of her aevum arts, reached out across the face of the world, slowing time to a trickle.
An opposing force pushed back. Sylvie gasped as she lost her spell, which shattered, sending a
sickening shiver up my spine. "What?" she asked, breathless.

-> Quote : My memories of those last moments in the keystone were clouded by the nature of the experience. I had seen the future I spoke of, where I taught others to utilize aether as I did, and the pressure was slowly released as more and more aether was drawn back into our dimension, where it spread throughout first the world and then beyond, radiating into time and space.

-> Quote : Against the back of my closed eyelids, aether seeped like blood from the pores between worlds. Interposed over this image was another: golden threads stretching beyond the bounds of one world and into the next, through a rift, reaching far and wide as they spread from the nexus point that was a single man, a man whose hands were red with the blood of civilization after civilization. In the image, I cut the cords of Fate and watched an empire fall. In the image, I looked down at my own hands, and they were red like his.

The story shows that aether shapes reality: space, time, and existence. From how aether’s expansion is described, it’s understood that these abilities don’t just work on one planet, but can reach across the whole universe or even beyond.

 

[Makai641001]

Spoiler

Arthur created the aether core (the first layer) over his old broken white mana core. Arthur initially describes the reserve of his core as a bucket of water. And that same Arthur is more powerful than a mage with a white core, who are capable of creating a black hole—not to mention that aether is more efficient than mana.

Aether responds to intention; it is not manipulated through power reserves. Dragons do not have aether reserves—only Arthur possesses an aether core.

-> Quote : The mana particles in the atmosphere had all been colorless, unable to be used within the void of frozen time, but what did glow all around me were the motes of purple.

Lady Myre had told me that while I could sense aether due to my affinity for all four elements, I might never be able to consciously control them outside of borrowing the power of Static Void.

Still, I tried. As crazy as it sounded, I called out to the floating specks of aether to help me somehow. I shouted, I pleaded, I prayed within the frozen realm and just when I thought nothing would work, some of the particles began congregating around Dawn’s Ballad, coating its blade in a hue of purple.

-> Quote : "You're starving me out," she said, calm but forceful. "The aether is barely reacting to me. You're holding it all in your sway. You and...whatever else is here, with us. The power trying to come through with Epheotus."
I understood. What little atmospheric aether had existed here had been absorbed and utilized in the first seconds of this event, before I'd even broken the outer layer of my core to expend its reserved aether. The only aether remaining was my own, channeled through the godrunes to act on the Relictombs and Epheotus. Of course, Myre was no more capable of accessing the aether lapping around the world's edges than I was.

----

Aether arts are conceptualizations of the user, so Arthur perceives the Static Void aether art (time stopped) in the form of a wave.

-> Quote : “Our people were limited by our physical bodies. We struggled not with gaining insight, but rather in figuring out ways to allow our fragile bodies to handle the burden of aether. “I may be speculating, but I believe your new rune took on the appearance of lightning not because it is lightning, but because that was how you conceptualized the abstract nature of that specific branch of aether,” the crystal went on. “So the dragons of the Indrath Clan weren’t able to control aether like your people could, or like I am able to?” I asked. “They have the physique and aptitude to handle aether but not the knowledge and insights to conceptualize aether as their own, right?”
----
-> Quote : “I’m not ready to give up yet,” I thought, trying to peel away a quadrant of my webbed thoughts toward the problem.
The web stretched and stretched until it was on the edge of tearing apart. King’s Gambit burned on my back and inside the gray matter of my brain, and the crown on my brow cast god rays down through my vision. Aether flooded through an entirely new network of sensory neurons, activated and empowered by the godrune. But there were no free threads to take up the problem. I was at the edge of King’s Gambit’s abilities. I couldn’t stretch it any farther.

The aether. My insight into the godrune—or the aspect of aether that it represented—had already expanded significantly in these few moments. Aether is…consciousness manifest as pure reality. The beginning and end of space, time, and life. The spark of thought contained within the semi-aware consciousness. And so King’s Gambit is…what?

I saw not only the threads themselves, each its own unique and individual thought, but also the space between the threads. And in doing so, I saw that, really, there were no branches, or threads, or even the spiderweb construct. These were just metaphors for the altered nature of my thoughts, as each idea was far more complex than a simple branch or thread. They were each their own aetheric consciousnesses, each a complex multi-dimensional structure in which to house the unfolding of simultaneous considerations.


It may not be explicitly stated that Static Void extends throughout the entire universe, but it is implied that the abilities of the aether do affect on a universal scale.

-> Quote : "How would you manipulate the world itself?" I pressed.
"It's become habit to say 'manipulate,' but in actuality, it is important to think of it instead as influencing aether. And you've already had a taste of this quite a few times, my dear. Windsom mentioned you being able to stop time for a brief moment." Myre set the cup

-> Quote : I opened my mouth to speak, but had no voice. I just need...a bit more time.
Sylvie nodded. Her eyes shut tight. And power and aether, in the form of her aevum arts, reached out across the face of the world, slowing time to a trickle.
An opposing force pushed back. Sylvie gasped as she lost her spell, which shattered, sending a
sickening shiver up my spine. "What?" she asked, breathless.

-> Quote : My memories of those last moments in the keystone were clouded by the nature of the experience. I had seen the future I spoke of, where I taught others to utilize aether as I did, and the pressure was slowly released as more and more aether was drawn back into our dimension, where it spread throughout first the world and then beyond, radiating into time and space.

-> Quote : Against the back of my closed eyelids, aether seeped like blood from the pores between worlds. Interposed over this image was another: golden threads stretching beyond the bounds of one world and into the next, through a rift, reaching far and wide as they spread from the nexus point that was a single man, a man whose hands were red with the blood of civilization after civilization. In the image, I cut the cords of Fate and watched an empire fall. In the image, I looked down at my own hands, and they were red like his.

The story shows that aether shapes reality: space, time, and existence. From how aether’s expansion is described, it’s understood that these abilities don’t just work on one planet, but can reach across the whole universe or even beyond.

So can you show a statement about the timeframe it took for the tt to reach the end of the 4-A structure.

Else all we know is that it froze everything between the dude and Arthur, then Arthur and then the rest in an unknown timeframe with this wave of energy