Askin vs Sasuke

[Johner2133451]

Controlling the mind of soul like beings does not give you soul manipulation. Also unconventional resistance doesn't help you against 5layerz of MM. Speed equalised and sasuke has 2 blitz worthy amps and a reaction speed higher than both. Not to mention teleportation, I find it very hard to even believe askin can touch him. With his sharingan he'd easily see askin attacks are deadly and avoid it. I don't know where the askin blitz is coming from but if you're arguing that it makes this match invalid per vs rules.

A shock wave from assume fist not to talk of the weakest fire style turns askin to paste, the ap gap is ridiculous. This just feels like a stomp for so like this should be closed. If it's not then l'm voting sasuke

Unconventional resists cant be negated by layers. It's unconventional for a reason as their minds are mixed with their souls

I don't think AP gap matters much since Askin has taken down ichigo who is tiers above than anyone in naruto

 

[Adam1396]

Gift Ring doesn't have invisibility hax attached to it, from what I'm seeing, it only has Limited Size Manipulation, Teleportation & Death Manipulation.

You are saying Askin is more intelligent because he gave an extraordinary genius a harder time in a fight? You are conflating intelligence with power and choosing to ignore the context of that fight, Kisuke wasn't having issue's with Askin because he was ridiculous smart or anything, but because of his ability to kill body parts and become invulnerable to things just after experiencing them. Being able to nearly beat someone who is insanely intelligent doesn't necessarily mean that you are as well.


Here you go piggy back riding on the one of the multiple win cons provided for Sasuke, if you yourself are not denying that Sasuke can one shot Askin, why does the battle go further then that?

Sasuke's attacks are vastly stronger than anything Gift Ball Deluxe can sustain, he one shots Askin.

Urahara failed with better visibility and analytical abilities. Sasuke is a joke comparatively.

It does. You are just misunderstanding the whole thing. Askin just bypassed extraordinary genius that's my point.
Anyway askin's intelligence section haven’t worked on that's all.


Because sasuke is getting dropped before one shotting or even destroying deluxe. Askin didn’t even step into mayuri's range and analyzed his opponent's caliber near instantly. Not that he couldn’t beat him when he beat a superior opponent in every category who had to survive with outside help.

 

[karo_senpaii]

Unconventional resists cant be negated by layers. It's unconventional for a reason as their minds are mixed with their souls

I don't think AP gap matters much since Askin has taken down ichigo who is tiers above than anyone in naruto

quote what part of the FAQ you got your first sentence from.

I've explained my view point. Ichigo ≠ sasuke

 

[Johner2133451]

quote what part of the FAQ you got your first sentence from.

I've explained my view point. Ichigo ≠ sasuke

I don't think a faq is a necessacity. You can go ahead ask in the bleach discussion thread about this

 

[karo_senpaii]

I don't think a faq is a necessacity. You can go ahead ask in the bleach discussion thread about this

Why? you're telling me layers don't matter here and I'm asking you how you got that rule and you're telling me it's not a necessity?

Anyways genjutsu works on edo tense which are just souls. This match is still ass either way

 

[Crayons]

Everyone seem forgetting that Askin can poison even Oxygen. Ichigo was poison by just breathing... Sasuke wont be able to do anything about Askin Poison. He can also become immune to attack, Sasuke attack contain Chakra. 1 attack from Sasuke pretty much make him immune.

 

[Crayons]

Why? you're telling me layers don't matter here and I'm asking you how you got that rule and you're telling me it's not a necessity?

Anyways genjutsu works on edo tense which are just souls. This match is still ass either way

You are comparing Kotoamatsuki Genjutsu which was stated to be the most powerful Genjutsu. Sasuke was never that much a genjutsu level on Itachi level.

Sasuke teleportation jutsu also uses a lot of chakra.. The only reason why Sasuke had chakra boost during Kaguya. Due to borrow power from Hagomoro.. When It was taken away, Sasuke ended up absorbing Biju chakra to replenish his chakra. But still he was limited with moves against Naruto due to Chakra Limitation.

If u look on Boruto Series, Sasuke couldn't even use his Rinnengan when he use his Teleportation Jutsu as It uses alot of Chakra (His Rinnengan would be disabled temporary)..

 

[ReaperAndBlues]

Nothing on his profile implies that

I'm not particularly hear for this match until it gets a little interesting, but as per my revisions for intelligence (take this as a suggestion not as a fact) Askin would be bare minimum at least Genius, arguable for EG as well, but again, these are my observations and are not yet implemented on his profile.

 

[Godernet]

Honestly, that's the first I heard of it. Not to derail, is there a CRT or discord server where that's being in the work?

no

Also, wasn't there an old CRT that downgraded the part 1 cast to 9-B since 8-B doesn't seem to be justified anymore? Because Sakura and Ino and the cast scaling to Sasuke's Fireball is ridiculous.

That thread wasn't fully accepted.

we actually have an 8A calc not being used so the Part 1 ppl will probably be 8A whenever that thread drops to swap calcs used.

 

[Godernet]

Lowkey, feel like this is a mismatch

probably voting Sasuke with his 25x AP gap, one-sided ability to amp speed to blitz levels, and the Sharingan's precog, kinetic vision, and info analysis.

Not to mention Sasuke's resistance to Poison, Transmutation and Soul Manip.

The gap is too high above one-shot levels, making it nigh-impossible for Askin to take advantage of his limited invulnerability from after taking an attack.

There's also nothing stopping Sasuke from looking at Askin and burning him alive with Amaterasu, blitzing and chopping him in half with Chidori, or sealing him with a Class Z LS Chibaku Tensei.

 

[karo_senpaii]

You are comparing Kotoamatsuki Genjutsu which was stated to be the most powerful Genjutsu. Sasuke was never that much a genjutsu level on Itachi level.

Sasuke teleportation jutsu also uses a lot of chakra.. The only reason why Sasuke had chakra boost during Kaguya. Due to borrow power from Hagomoro.. When It was taken away, Sasuke ended up absorbing Biju chakra to replenish his chakra. But still he was limited with moves against Naruto due to Chakra Limitation.

If u look on Boruto Series, Sasuke couldn't even use his Rinnengan when he use his Teleportation Jutsu as It uses alot of Chakra (His Rinnengan would be disabled temporary)..

1. Genjutsu placed on edo tensei to puppet them with tags are not even ocular and it works fine, some special edo just resist.
2. Read sasuke profile, his genjutsu is the most powerful genjutsu ever.
3. Hag never took his chakra back
4. You're confusing space time dimension hoping with teleportation via swapping. The former drains a lot of chakra and that is something he never had till boruto hence the problem never occurring in shippudden while the latter requires so little chakra that even when low on chakra that his tomoe disappears he can still use it fine, case and point against shin.

 

[Foriaa]

Urahara failed with better visibility and analytical abilities. Sasuke is a joke comparatively.

You are making claims without providing any bases for them. You mention Kisuke has better Invisibility perception, but when you couldn't prove that, you move the goalpost by saying he has better analytical abilities.

It does. You are just misunderstanding the whole thing. Askin just bypassed extraordinary genius that's my point.
Anyway askin's intelligence section haven’t worked on that's all.

Brother, as I've mentioned earlier, you are conflating beating someone with hax, as a feat for intelligence. The narrative of that fight wasn't that Kisuke was struggling because Askin was intelligent, it was because of his brain dead hax.

Because sasuke is getting dropped before one shotting or even destroying deluxe.

Lol, no.

 

[Adam1396]

You are making claims without providing any bases for them. You mention Kisuke has better Invisibility perception, but when you couldn't prove that, you move the goalpost by saying he has better analytical abilities.

Brother, as I've mentioned earlier, you are conflating beating someone with hax, as a feat for intelligence. The narrative of that fight wasn't that Kisuke was struggling because Askin was intelligent, it was because of his brain dead hax.

Lol, no.

I ain't gonna go all over that repeatedly.
It's on you if you fail to grasp something simple like that.
He still needed his iq to identify and avoid fatal blows, instantly gauge opponent's strength, not get trapped and play out his cards. If his hax can no sell urahara's iq in a lengthy battle, who tf is sasuke

 

[Kidkinsey]

So sasuke is over 20x stronger
More speed amps
More skilled
Sealing and mind hax that could end it
Better intelligence and a boatload of resistances

Sasuke legit just might rinnegan teleport over to him and chidori him at the start

 

[AlternativePrinciple]

So sasuke is over 20x stronger
More speed amps
More skilled
Sealing and mind hax that could end it
Better intelligence and a boatload of resistances

Sasuke legit just might rinnegan teleport over to him and chidori him at the start

Don’t forget that he can cast amatarasu by just looking in his opponents direction

I vote for Sasuke FRA

 

[Samlex1234]

So Sasuke is over 20x stronger
More speed amps
More skilled
Sealing and mind hax that could end it
Better intelligence and a boatload of resistances

Sasuke legit just might rinnegan teleport over to him and chidori him at the start

Don’t forget that he can cast amatarasu by just looking in his opponents direction

I vote for Sasuke FRA

Yep, this match is a stomp, I vote for Sasuke for the same reasons.

Edit:
Sasuke can even use Chibaku Tensei without even having to waste any time.

 

[Adam1396]

Before any of these kills askin, sasuke will be lethal dosed by whole surroundings.

This level of heat manipulation would be negged by low tiers alone. Let alone doing something to blutt users

 

[Godernet]

Considering Sasuke has a resistance to Poison Manip and Transmutation, a resistance that should be layered if anything, since it's accepted as scaling from Kurama's chakra.

I doubt it would kill Sasuke, who has several sensory abilities to stay a step ahead + precog, and a speed advantage.

At least not before Sasuke uses one of his instant win moves on Askin (hit him, seal him, or look at him)

Not to mention, resistance to heat manip isn't on Askin's profile.

 

[ReaperAndBlues]

Not to mention, resistance to heat manip isn't on Askin's profile.

The heat resistance comes from Quincy Physiology. It's >15 million degrees.

 

[Johner2133451]

Considering Sasuke has a resistance to Poison Manip and Transmutation, a resistance that should be layered if anything, since it's accepted as scaling from Kurama's chakra.

I doubt it would kill Sasuke, who has several sensory abilities to stay a step ahead + precog, and a speed advantage.

At least not before Sasuke uses one of his instant win moves on Askin (hit him, seal him, or look at him)

Not to mention, resistance to heat manip isn't on Askin's profile.

I dont think resistance to poison manip matters since Askin has resistance negation. Which made Ichigo drop down despite several tiers above Sasuke and resists to poison

 

[Foriaa]

I vote Sasuke.

 

[Adam1396]

Let's look at all the arguments till now.
Sasuke's wincons:
1. Sasuke one shots with ap advantage.
He ain't doing that with speed equal.
2. Amaterasu.
Such low level heat manipulation ain't doing anything.
3. Analytical ability, iq.
Ah, sasuke is a kid to kisuke.
4. Genjutsu.
The only thing that has shown to be able soul's mind is by specific jutsu (reanimaion, shisui's mangekyo which is strongest type and anomally).
Though I can argue against it as well as they have to bypass layered defense as well not just Conventional. Since it's still not on the profile let's skip it.

As for askin's wincons:
1. He throws ring which sasuke undoubtedly can't percieve. Sasuke goes blind and gets an easy deatg.
2. Askin makes the very battle field lethal for sasuke by making any substance in the environment lethal.
3. Deluxe. Which sasuke has no answer against.

Thank you

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Sasuke FRA

 

[AlternativePrinciple]

Let's look at all the arguments till now.
Sasuke's wincons:
1. Sasuke one shots with ap advantage.
He ain't doing that with speed equal.
2. Amaterasu.
Such low level heat manipulation ain't doing anything.
3. Analytical ability, iq.
Ah, sasuke is a kid to kisuke.
4. Genjutsu.
The only thing that has shown to be able soul's mind is by specific jutsu (reanimaion, shisui's mangekyo which is strongest type and anomally).
Though I can argue against it as well as they have to bypass layered defense as well not just Conventional. Since it's still not on the profile let's skip it.

Uhhh you forgot his speed
Amps

 

[Godernet]

Let's look at all the arguments till now.
Sasuke's wincons:
1. Sasuke one shots with ap advantage.
He ain't doing that with speed equal.

he has speed amps that he can blitz with via Shunshin and Chidori

4. Genjutsu.
The only thing that has shown to be able soul's mind is by specific jutsu (reanimaion, shisui's mangekyo which is strongest type and anomally).

a far inferior Sasuke has been shown capable of using GJ on reanimations the same way that Koto does, so thats just not true.

Though I can argue against it as well as they have to bypass layered defense as well not just Conventional. Since it's still not on the profile let's skip it.

Rinnegan Sasuke's GJ is also layered and accepted as such so this doesn't really move the needle but you did say you'd skip it so that's fine

As for askin's wincons:
1. He throws ring which sasuke undoubtedly can't percieve. Sasuke goes blind and gets an easy deatg.

why would he not react to his attempts to throw rings prior with the Sharingan's precog, enhanced perceptions, and info analysis?

3. Deluxe. Which sasuke has no answer against.

what if he just uses Space Time Ninjutsu to teleport it someplace else?

this is also ignoring other wincons like squashing Askin with Class Z Gravity Manip, or sealing him with CT

Sasuke's wincons all just end the fight instantly and more than likely would land if he tried them.

Askin landing Gift Ball, Gift Ring, or Gift Deluxe would be very hard with Sasuke's speed amps, Substitution Jutsu, Space-Time Ninjutsu, and Sharingan keeping him a few steps ahead of Askin's physical movements.

 

[Adam1396]

he has speed amps that he can blitz with via Shunshin and Chidori

a far inferior Sasuke has been shown capable of using GJ on reanimations the same way that Koto does, so thats just not true.

Rinnegan Sasuke's GJ is also layered and accepted as such so this doesn't really move the needle but you did say you'd skip it so that's fine

why would he not react to his attempts to throw rings prior with the Sharingan's precog, enhanced perceptions, and info analysis?

what if he just uses Space Time Ninjutsu to teleport it someplace else?

this is also ignoring other wincons like squashing Askin with Class Z Gravity Manip, or sealing him with CT

Sasuke's wincons all just end the fight instantly and more than likely would land if he tried them.

Askin landing Gift Ball, Gift Ring, or Gift Deluxe would be very hard with Sasuke's speed amps, Substitution Jutsu, Space-Time Ninjutsu, and Sharingan keeping him a few steps ahead of Askin's physical movements.

He will get dropped before utilizing amps

When did he use? I forgot

That's not gonna. Is urahara dumb enough not to know that? Lol.
Also as I have mention urahara has much better invisibility perception and analytical capabilities.

Teleportation DT not gonna work. Urahara loterally needed to reconstruct the whole thing for people like grimjow to enter the battle field and the reason why he couldn’t just teleport from battlefield.

None of these gonna kill instantly. Only thing that can kill askin instantly is AP gap. Which sasuke can't do with speed equalized.

Askin quite literally doesn’t need to land anything lol

 

[Johner2133451]

Btw is Sasuke's first moves is Susanno? Because if Sasuke decides anything other than it, he can't attack Askin because of Askin's invulnerability to attacks

• Possible Invulnerability (Souls are implied to only be able to be damaged by attacks that strike on the astral level, This is further implied by Jackie's statement)

 

[Godernet]

Btw is Sasuke's first moves is Susanno? Because if Sasuke decides anything other than it, he can't attack Askin because of Askin's invulnerability to attacks

• Possible Invulnerability (Souls are implied to only be able to be damaged by attacks that strike on the astral level, This is further implied by Jackie's statement)

Susanoo is one of his last options

His first option is usually to take you out with his speed or test with GJ

 

[Samlex1234]

I dont think resistance to poison manip matters since Askin has resistance negation. Which made Ichigo drop down despite several tiers above Sasuke and resists to poison

I believe his resistance negation has a limited range, which makes it practically useless against Sasuke’s fighting style. Even regular shinobi avoid charging head-on into battle, especially against unknown enemies, relying instead on tactics like shadow clones and shape-shifting.
Furthermore, Sasuke has analytical prediction with the Sharingan and perception speed far beyond his regular movement speed. His Chidori strikes faster than his normal attacks, and Chibaku Tensei bypasses Askin’s durability. He also has teleportation, allowing him to instantly switch places with objects or even Askin himself just by looking at him. On top of that, Sasuke can create portals to exit the battlefield at will.

 

[Johner2133451]

Susanoo is one of his last options

His first option is usually to take you out with his speed or test with GJ

Then Sasuke is losing since Sasuke can only harm Askin if he uses susanno due to invulnerability

 

[Johner2133451]

I believe his resistance negation has a limited range, which makes it practically useless against Sasuke’s fighting style. Even regular shinobi avoid charging head-on into battle, especially against unknown enemies, relying instead on tactics like shadow clones and shape-shifting.
Furthermore, Sasuke has analytical prediction with the Sharingan and perception speed far beyond his regular movement speed. His Chidori strikes faster than his normal attacks, and Chibaku Tensei bypasses Askin’s durability. He also has teleportation, allowing him to instantly switch places with objects or even Askin himself just by looking at him. On top of that, Sasuke can create portals to exit the battlefield at will.

What Chibaku Tensei can do? Also Askin himself is very careful and not instantly show all of his abilities like when he confronted Mayuri

 

[Godernet]

Then Sasuke is losing since Sasuke can only harm Askin if he uses susanno due to invulnerability

He can harm him with anything he wants to use besides Amaterasu due to the AP gap.

The invulnerability kicks in after taking an attack so all he needs to do is oneshot which he is very capable of doing because again.

It’s a 25x AP gap.

 

[Godernet]

What Chibaku Tensei can do? Also Askin himself is very careful and not instantly show all of his abilities like when he confronted Mayuri

Class Z LS, so without similar LS, Askin gets yeeted into the core and sealed.

 

[Johner2133451]

He can harm him with anything he wants to use besides Amaterasu due to the AP gap.

The invulnerability kicks in after taking an attack so all he needs to do is oneshot which he is very capable of doing because again.

It’s a 25x AP gap.

No I'm taking about a different invulnerability. Askin has this physiology which makes every bleach character automatically invulnerable unless you can do soul damage

Soul Physiology (Bleach)

Within Bleach most of the major (and even minor) characters are Souls, constructed of Reishi particles and given inherent characteristics that are gained through being a soul in the series, this blog will index all the abilities gained through these characteristics. This rating is given out to...

vsbattles.fandom.com

• Possible Invulnerability (Souls are implied to only be able to be damaged by attacks that strike on the astral level, This is further implied by Jackie's statement)

 

[Samlex1234]

No I'm taking about a different invulnerability. Askin has this physiology which makes every bleach character automatically invulnerable unless you can do soul damage

Soul Physiology (Bleach)

Within Bleach most of the major (and even minor) characters are Souls, constructed of Reishi particles and given inherent characteristics that are gained through being a soul in the series, this blog will index all the abilities gained through these characteristics. This rating is given out to...

vsbattles.fandom.com

• Possible Invulnerability (Souls are implied to only be able to be damaged by attacks that strike on the astral level, This is further implied by Jackie's statement)

Wait, what kind of logic is this? Here we go again with the “soul” argument. What’s the point of a Vs Battle if the characters can’t even interact with each other? But let me burst your bubble real quick.

• 
  Soul Manipulation (Users of Six Paths chakra are unaffected by the effects of the Truth-Seeking Orbs, and can physically interact with them.Characters with particularly powerful chakra and a high degree of chakra control were able to withstand having their souls extracted by engaging in a "Soul Tug-of-War". Characters on this level have also directly shown the ability to withstand direct attacks to their souls when engaged in these chakra-to-chakra clashes

• Soul Manipulation, Non-Physical Interaction & Selective Intangibility (Soul; By coating their themselves in chakra, or by manifesting chakra arms, Rinnegan users and/or Jinchūriki are able to physically interact with souls. This extends to physically grabbing a hold of someone's soul to pull it out, pulling their own soul back in, or invading someone's inner soul and interacting with it directly. Tailed Beast Chakra Arms have also shown the ability to become intangible at the user's whim in order to bypass their target's outer defenses.

 

[Samlex1234]

By the way, Sasuke still has Telekinesis with Class Z lifting strength, which means he doesn't even have to use Chibaku Tensei or go close to Askin at all, he can just pick up Askin from any distance and Shinra Tensei Askin into space and yes he is more than capable of doing so because the AP gap allows it.

 

[Johner2133451]

Wait, what kind of logic is this? Here we go again with the “soul” argument. What’s the point of a Vs Battle if the characters can’t even interact with each other? But let me burst your bubble real quick.

• 
  Soul Manipulation (Users of Six Paths chakra are unaffected by the effects of the Truth-Seeking Orbs, and can physically interact with them.Characters with particularly powerful chakra and a high degree of chakra control were able to withstand having their souls extracted by engaging in a "Soul Tug-of-War". Characters on this level have also directly shown the ability to withstand direct attacks to their souls when engaged in these chakra-to-chakra clashes

• Soul Manipulation, Non-Physical Interaction & Selective Intangibility (Soul; By coating their themselves in chakra, or by manifesting chakra arms, Rinnegan users and/or Jinchūriki are able to physically interact with souls. This extends to physically grabbing a hold of someone's soul to pull it out, pulling their own soul back in, or invading someone's inner soul and interacting with it directly. Tailed Beast Chakra Arms have also shown the ability to become intangible at the user's whim in order to bypass their target's outer defenses.

Where's this in sasuke's profile?

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Where's this in sasuke's profile?

Its upscaling from the guy who had the same powers as Sasuke

Hagoromo Ōtsutsuki

Hagoromo Ōtsutsuki (大おお筒つつ木き ハゴロモ, Ōtsutsuki Hagoromo?), known to the world at large as the Sage of Six Paths (六りく道どう仙せん人にん, Rikudō Sennin?), was a legendary god-like figure who founded Ninshū, or Shinobi creed. Ninshū eventually led to the creation creation of Ninjutsu, and of the ninja world...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Johner2133451]

Its upscaling from the guy who had the same powers as Sasuke

Hagoromo Ōtsutsuki

Hagoromo Ōtsutsuki (大おお筒つつ木き ハゴロモ, Ōtsutsuki Hagoromo?), known to the world at large as the Sage of Six Paths (六りく道どう仙せん人にん, Rikudō Sennin?), was a legendary god-like figure who founded Ninshū, or Shinobi creed. Ninshū eventually led to the creation creation of Ninjutsu, and of the ninja world...

vsbattles.fandom.com

If it's not on Sasuke's profile, it can't be used as the staffs mentioned

So you have to make a CRT

 

[Samlex1234]

Where's this in sasuke's profile?

It is on Hagoromo’s profile you can check it there if you want. It is accepted for characters that have similar abilities, many abilities that have been accepted are still not yet updated.