Asta (BC) vs Demon King (NNT)

[Demon_Lord18]

Anti-magic isn't a spell. It's an ability, it's not magic because it's quite literally the opposite of it. That's an association fallacy. Kind of like how I would say curses are automatically magic according to what the defenition of a a curse is stated in the dictionary, contrary to what the verse supposedly implies, you get what I mean?

What exactly makes you think that anti-magic would annul the commandments? The manga makes it clear that they are absolute and cannot be contradicted (undone).

There are only two ways to escape a commandment:

1- By dying

2- Killing the bearer of the commandment

Even Merlin, who has Power Null like Asta, couldn't annul a commandment.

Sure babe. And then I replied; Suppose an individual has magic and magical power according to your verse, say for example, a big dude like the DK, and he were to split his power into half and split that half into 10 which would be called the commandments, but considering the fact that an individual with any sort of power is magical and nothing else?? BUT APPARENTLY his power that he halved and split into ten ISN'T magic but power in your verse is comprised of strength, magic and spirit?

After dividing his strength by half, the Demon King dispersed his power among ten of his most loyal warriors, each having capability to deliver unique curses whenever their rule is broken. The Commandments are immune to each other's abilities, but not their own.

• Faith: Anyone who shows faithlessness has their eyes set ablaze. The "faith" concept applies to anything the victim once had faith in, such as love or family.
• Love: Anyone who has hatred in their heart will be unable to inflict damage to others. They will not even be able to summon the strength to raise their weapons or activate their powers.
• Pacifism: Anyone who kills will have their remaining lifetime stolen from them, aging rapidly to death.
• Patience: Anyone who shows intolerance of pain will be inflicted with further pain.
• Piety: Anyone who flees is forced into mindless obedience to him. He can undo the effects of the commandment at will.
• Purity: Anyone who conducts impure deeds will be inflicted with illness.
• Repose: Anyone who fights without rest will get their magic sealed away.
• Reticence: Anyone who expresses hidden feeling and/or emotions will be rendered unable to speak.
• Selflessness: Anyone with feelings of greed, desire, or selfishness in his presence loses their memories, emotions, and sense of self.
• Truth: Anyone who knowingly tells a lie in his presence is turned to stone.

The commandments are made up of half the Demon King's strength, not half his magic.

ON TOP OF THAAT, apparently, Arthur scales 33 to 189 exatons for his moon level key. Assuming that's the same for the demon king, Asta's moon level key is at 354.6 exatons. So the demon king's AP is just slightly over half that of Asta's durability, so I think he's totally fine.
The demon king is also NOT outlasting Asta. Both Asta and the demon king have superhuman levels of stamina. That's never been a wincon ever, and then he has less AP which isn't good.

As far as I can see, you haven't even opened the CRT.

Arthur>100% DK 378 exatons.

How would it be between 33 and 189 exatons? And how does Asta have a higher AP than DK if he has 356 and DK 378? MDS

An energy storm? Not natural but energy is interesting, is he bringing this about with magic? If yes, I'm immediately assuming this is getting black hurricaned gg.
Mist of death (death manipulation) and his acid storm is also interesting. Is mist of death a curse brought about by magic? That would make it a hax stomp because death is completely instant in which case this wouldn't be applied to pages. for arguments sakes however, it's not in character for the DK to use them in a fight. we havent seen him use any of his nature attacks besides his passive enviro destruction in a fight because he hasn't done it. It's not in character do so, TLDR: these shouldn't be considered wincons.

He wasn't talking about it, and this thing is made of miasma, something from demonic physiology, which means Asta isn't nullifying it.

 

[Majinere566]

All this but you can’t prove the demon king has used it in battle

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

 

[Demon_Lord18]

What's to stop DK from paralyzing Asta and simply killing him?

Or what's stopping him from killing Asta passively with the miasma?

 

[Demon_Lord18]

Im really bored in this crt.

かいごん

さず まじんおう われら 魔神王より(戒)が じゅそ 授けられし呪詛だ!

戒禁はただの まりょくあら 魔力に非ず･･･

まじゅつし いかな魔術士が じかん どれほどの時間を けっ かけようと決して 解けるものではない!!!!

The commandments are not a Magic, they are a curse...

No matter how much time any mage spends on it, it can never be broken. !!!!

Your kanji are out of order

“戒禁は ただの 魔力に非ず･･･ 魔神王より〈十戒)が 授けられし呪詛だ!”

“The commandments are not just a magical power... they are a curse bestowed by the Demon King!”

 

[Arnoldstone18]

1. Command is absolute (Law Manipulation), if Asta has no resistance, the command will work. Command is not magic, command is created from a part of life as well as power. Although I don't understand if 'Power' here would include magic or not. I just think it doesn't. Because I'm a fan of nnt haha

Whatever that isn’t stated to be magic… should be treated as such given how vague the source of magic is in the verse.

The ruler only applies to magic. Gowther proved it who did Power Nullification using his invasion to destroy it.

Not a wincon.

The ruler itself is magic so Anti Magic negates it easily.

So why exactly did you vote for DK?

 

[Arnoldstone18]

What's to stop DK from paralyzing Asta and simply killing him?

Or what's stopping him from killing Asta passively with the miasma?

Anti magic.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Your kanji are out of order

“戒禁は ただの 魔力に非ず･･･ 魔神王より〈十戒)が 授けられし呪詛だ!”

“The commandments are not just a magical power... they are a curse bestowed by the Demon King!”

Congrats you proved the commandments are magical curses.

Demon destroyer negates the cause (magic) to eliminate the effect (curses)

 

[Demon_Lord18]

The commandments are magical, yes. I found evidence that they are magical, but I didn't want to exclude that

chapter 125 and 191

Your kanji are out of order

“戒禁は ただの 魔力に非ず･･･ 魔神王より〈十戒)が 授けられし呪詛だ!”

“The commandments are not just a magical power... they are a curse bestowed by the Demon King!”

Congrats you proved the commandments are magical curses.

Demon destroyer negates the cause (magic) to eliminate the effect (curses)

That was my intention with this answer, the old one had more things. She is above

 

[Demon_Lord18]

Anti magic.

Neither of these things being magical:

 

[Arnoldstone18]

So will you Elaborate or not?

 

[Demon_Lord18]

Neither of these things being magical:

It comes from your demonic physiology.

Miasma is a passive corrosion and is something that demons release naturally.

Paralysis induction has only been used against much weaker characters, so I don't know if it would work here.

 

[Demon_Lord18]

So will you Elaborate or not?

No, I shouldn't even be here, I hate versus

 

[Majinere566]

5 pages spent on commandment debates that the Demon King never even used in character, The Ruler and few other things is crazy

Someone make a discussion rule to Ban NNT vs BC

 

[Faa_Tzy]

Whatever that isn’t stated to be magic… should be treated as such given how vague the source of magic is in the verse.

That's the way it is. Because the power system is magical so all the power present in the verse, will follow the magical. Although it depends on the context, as is the case with this Commandment. I reject this as magical, even though it is declared as magical (so weird).

Also, lazy to respond to this. As already said, that DK never used it in battle. Given that there is no rule of 'Ful power / Use of Commandment on DK', so I am also confused about what DK should do.

Not a wincon.

The ruler itself is magic so Anti Magic negates it easily.

I did'nt say wincon. The rule only works on magic, anti-magic can handle it

Secret, I just deliberately chose DK because I was bored. Or maybe I'll change my mind to choose Asta

 

[Robo432343]

im voting asta too fra

i think we have reached grace

 

[speedster352]

5 pages spent on commandment debates that the Demon King never even used in character, The Ruler and few other things is crazy

Someone make a discussion rule to Ban NNT vs BC

We are talking about the fact that the demon king can’t die as long as the commandments exist and Asta can’t negate his regeneration so whatever win con people are voting for is wrong.

 

[CloverDragon03]

We are talking about the fact that the demon king can’t die as long as the commandments exist and Asta can’t negate his regeneration so whatever win con people are voting for is wrong.

You can't just invalidate people voting for Asta based on your personal takes

 

[speedster352]

You can't just invalidate people voting for Asta based on your personal takes

How is this about me? Here are the arguments brought up Asta cannot destroy the commandments so DK type 6 and 8 immortality remains. DK can use non magical attacks to destroy Asta(Misama, mist of death aka death manipulation, acidic storm and etc) DK could create or summon a beast to activate pacifism. Asta can’t stop the DK regeneration since it’s not magical and it doesn’t have a stamina weakness. Did I leave anything out?

 

[Joshyyy_64]

ON MY MOMMA YALL GOT ME FKED UP!!! Was I LIED to for 4 and a half pages straight going back and forth?!

 

[Joshyyy_64]

How is this about me? Here are the arguments brought up Asta cannot destroy the commandments so DK type 6 and 8 immortality remains. DK can use non magical attacks to destroy Asta(Misama, mist of death aka death manipulation, acidic storm and etc) DK could create or summon a beast to activate pacifism. Asta can’t stop the DK regeneration since it’s not magical and it doesn’t have a stamina weakness. Did I leave anything out?

Nooooo speedster, your arguments were that the commandment curses weren't magic. dawg

 

[MeliodasDeUzyy]

As I am very busy these days, I will not be interested in this crt any more, but I still vote for DK

 

[Joshyyy_64]

im voting asta too fra

i think we have reached grace

I'm voting Asta. Please give us a tally

 

[Robo432343]

I'm voting Asta. Please give us a tally

@Joshyyy_64 @Robo432343 @CloverDragon03 @Epsilon_R @Majinere566 @Arnoldstone18 @Kazuma_kuwabara

@Demon_Lord18 @speedster352 @Makai641001 @MeliodasDeUzyy

 

[Majinere566]

I haven’t made a vote yet. All I did was try and correct some of the misinformation some of the NNT supporters tried to use

 

[ssgengar]

Epsilon_R made some pretty good points that I agree with

Asta FRA

 

[speedster352]

Just to clarify what’s Asta win con?

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

@Joshyyy_64 @Robo432343 @CloverDragon03 @Epsilon_R @Majinere566 @Arnoldstone18 @Kazuma_kuwabara

@Demon_Lord18 @speedster352 @Makai641001 @MeliodasDeUzyy

Same, I only argued for Asta, I don't want to vote

 

[Joshyyy_64]

Epsilon_R made some pretty good points that I agree with

Asta FRA

Wait, so what about my points? I carried this shi

 

[MeliodasDeUzyy]

Wait, so what about my points? I carried this shi

You didn't do anything i carried the 7ds side

 

[ssgengar]

Wait, so what about my points? I carried this shi

Lol you made good points too bros, he just had a comment that summed everything up nicely

 

[Joshyyy_64]

You didn't do anything i carried the 7ds side

Respectfully, I shall refrain from conversing with liars from this point forward. Thank you for understanding.

Kind regards,
Joshua.

 

[Joshyyy_64]

Same, I only argued for Asta, I don't want to vote

not you tryna be the hero again

 

[Demon_Lord18]

Just to clarify what’s Asta win con?

...

 

[Arnoldstone18]

...

Aside from just beating the shit out of him while blocking and defending against virtually all his threats. A skillfully well placed Zetten is taking him out lol.

 

[Xinsignia1]

Merlin had the protection of the Supreme Divinity and eternal life.



Asta has neither of these to resist the commandment of Pacifism.

SBA would still apply. Asta should have passive resistance to curses since he can cloak himself in anti-magic (his own body literally generates anti-magic power now due to his contract with Liebe) and he HAS negated curses in the past. He negated the curse bomb that Megicula placed on Lolopechka. Moreover, curses are explicitly stated to not be magic in BC as they are not derived from magical power. However, they can be manipulated by magical power.

Asta should have enhanced resistance to curses, considering he can simply wrap himself in causality break which works on both magic and curses. Anti-magic is just a name in verse since it's mysterious, but in reality ant-magic is canoncally derived from anti-energy which seems to work on any energies that are of a paranormal whether it be derived from magical power or anything else. And just to ensure this is not a translation issue, here are the raws, which specifically refer to it as 「反エネルギーAnchi enerugī 」

Also magic isn't the only application of mana or magical power in verse,. To clarify mana is simply defined fundamental supernatural energy that exist. Magic however is only one application of magical power, but not the only application. Gadja can float without using magic (but he's still using maryoku/magical power) and zetten isn't magic either however it also uses magical power/refined mana. And it seems curses from NNT are still derived from magical power however it's just a different application of it.

So regardless pacifism even if you want to insist that curses still aren't magic.

Also DK will win with Commandments, they're not magic, like what speedster said they are just law based curses that can’t be interacted with without special powers and DK can manipulate natural darkness

Curses are explicitly stated to not be magic in BC as they are not derived from magical power. However they can be manipulated by magic/spells.

Curses in BC are explicitly powered by curses power 「呪力 juryoku 」 and magic/spells is power by magical power magical power 「魔力 maryoku」

For example, Vanica from the dark triad posses both magical power (maryoku) and curse power (juryoku) so she has two different type of energies that she utilizes to generate curses and magic.

In the capital invasion arc Rhades hit Asta with a curse that made him perpetually bleed from any cut no matter how small or large and that curse was powered by curse power, not magical power as a way to counter his anti-magic. What Rhades didn't know was that anti-magic doesn't just negate magic, it can also negate curse power and its derivatives (curses) because Asta then used his swords to take out the curse power.

So a lot of the DK's hax shouldn't really affect Asta at all.

 

[MeliodasDeUzyy]

Asta had passive resistance to curses and HAS negated curses in the past. He negated the curse bomb that Megicula placed on Lolopechka.

Moreover, he should have enhanced resistance, especially since he can simply wrap himself in causality break which works on both magic and curses. Anti-magic is just a name in verse since it's mysterious, but in reality ant-magic is canoncally derived from anti-energy. Moreover, the raws specifically refer to it as 「反エネルギーAnchi enerugī 」 and has been shown to negate any form of paranormal or supernatural energy in BC, whether it be derived from magical power or anything else.

and just to be clear, magical power is just the name for refined mana, to clear mana is simply defined as fundamental supernatural energy that exist. Magic however, is only one application of magical power, but not the only application. Gadja can float without using magic (but he's still using maryoku/magical power) and zetten isn't magic either however it also uses magical power/refined mana. So regardless pacifism isn't really doing anything to Asta.



Curses are explicitly stated to not be magic in BC as they are not derived from magical power. However they can be manipulated by magic/spells.

Curses in BC are explicitly powered by curses power 「呪力 juryoku 」 and magic/spells is power by magical power magical power 「魔力 maryoku」

Moreover, Vanica from the dark triad posses both magical power (maryoku) and curse power (juryoku) so she has two different type of energies that she utilizes to generate curses and magic.

In the capital invasion arc Rhades hit Asta with a curse that made him perpetually bleed from any cut no matter how small or large as a way to counter his anti-magic. What Rhades didn't know was that anti-magic doesn't just negate magic, it can also negate curses. Asta then used his swords to take out the curse power.

So a lot of the DK's shouldn't really affect Asta at all.

Its not same as 7DS

 

[Xinsignia1]

Its not same as 7DS

Doesn't need to be exactly the same considering SBA would still apply, and curses in SDS are still derived from magical power, and even if the weren't Asta should still be able to negate them considering they're supernatural in nature, so whether it's derived from magic or not, anti-magic should still be able to negate it given it erases magical power and curse power which are two different energies that power two different phenomena.

 

[Faa_Tzy]

Declared not magic, but can be manipulated by magic power. Yes, the result is the same as magic, in the end Asta negates the curse of magic, not non-magic.

 

[Demon_Lord18]

and even if the weren't Asta should still be able to negate them considering they're supernatural in nature

Then the Asta will nullify the existence of the DK, since it is supernatural in nature.