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Bakugo vs Azula Rematch (Grace)

Kingofwolves999

Kingofwolves999

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Season 3 Azula vs Rise of Villains Bakugou. Both High 8-C.

Speed equal. Starting 10 meters apart. SBA otherwise.

Crazy Princess: 3 (FRIMI, Jackythejack, LSirLancelotDuLaci)

Angry Hero: 7 (Insert creative name here 12, Captainsparkz, The Wright Way, TheRustyOne, Necrovoi, GoCommitDi, I'm Blue daba dee daba die)

Tie:
 
Psuedo flight, hit and run tactics, speed amps, range spam, blind with stun grenade and amp his AP with his gauntlets and stronger explosions.
 
Well Bakugou has superior mobility, stamina, durability, variety, along with amps like his Howitzer and condensed explosions and also has better tactical showings in a fight. Azula is more skilled and has a minor AP advantage. idk who has more range with attacks but I'll vote Bakugou for having more advantages.
 
idk what you're talking about with mobility and durability since just by comparing pages you can pretty clearly see that Azula has the advantage in both. In fact, by pure stats, Azula has the upper hand in everything, including range, except for stamina where it's the difference between high and very high. It's true that Bakugo has more signiture moves, but that's just because Azula doesn't have signiture moves. Her fighting style is very reactionary. One thing that I will give, however, is that Bakugo does have marginally better flight and the stun grenade is extremely useful, especially against somebody like Azula who, as I said is very reactionary. I will still vote for Azula though, as her sheer stat differences are enough in my opinion to take out Bakugo
 
The stat difference is no where near big enough to help her win vs Bakugo's mobility, stamina, hax and versatility. Azula scales to around 4 tons vs 3.19 tons. That's not a difference at all large enough to say she "out stats him."

Bakugo has seen far more complex and experienced fire manipulators than Azula, and would pick apart her abilities and fighting style from the get go. Stun grenade, AP amps, speed amps and stamina are very good counters to her being somewhat higher than him in stats, as you say. Pure AP doesn't help you vs hax and versatility if it's not high enough.

Range doesn't matter at all, the range they're fighting at is going to be constantly changing with Bakugo flying all over the place shooting AP shots and explosions at her. He can get in close with his rapid direction changing psuedo flight, which Azula would have difficulty responding to, or just blow her up with his huge AoE from afar, like his gauntlets, Howitzer Impact or just his ranged, non AP shot explosions.
 
Azula has inferior durability since she has no feats of tanking her 4 ton flames on her body and is therefore at best baseline.

Bakugou has superior flight and it isn't marginally, since Azula has at best boosted herself along the ground or straight up while Bakugou on the other hand can rapidly alter his direction in midair while simultaneously attacking.

Unless Azula can generate flames that cover over 50 meters, Bakugou has better range.

Bakugou is reactionary as well and can alter his approach depending on his opponent as shown agaisnt Nine and Deku.

Bakugou has more variety.Azula can generate fireand lightning, while Bakugou has his explosions, stun grenade and AP shot autocannon.
 
as for the mobility thing, aside from having superior flight, Bakugo's difference in mobility isn't as drastic as you're making it out. Take, for instance, the fact that Azula was able to partially out-maneuver all of team avatar including Aang and Toph during the solar eclipse, so that's just excluding the aid of fire bending. Aside from the stun grenade, Azula's flames are more powerful than Bakugo's attacks and by blocking with fire she can easily shrug off some of the bigger attacks from Bakugo. At the very least she can probably handle both types of Bakugo's AP shots, and massive AoE at a distance should be even easier to combat since she only needs to avoid getting hit where she is instead of blocking the full scale of the attack. Also, I'm fairly certain that she has fire bent over 50 meters even without the help of Sozin's Comet, but I'll need to check again

I don't know that I can fully agree with the fact Bakugo has met "more complex and experienced fire manipulators" as she was trained by some of the best in the world on top of just being a natural at it from a very young age. Azula could absolutely notice if Bakugo is predicting her fighting style and will change accordingly, and the same goes vice versa.

Even though Azula's flight isn't as good as Bakugo's I think it's wrong to say that she would have difficulty responding to it, especially since even more mobile flight than that is not something new to Azula. Speaking of flight, Azula has been shown to use fire bending for legitimate flight and there's no reason to think that she can't change directions (though still not as well as Bakugo). She only flew straight up in the prison escape because she only needed to fly straight up.

In my opinion Azula is at least slightly more skilled than Bakugo as well as marginally more powerful. Bakugo does have the flight advantage on her and I can see a pretty reasonable/simple win con with the stun grenade, but I still think that Azula takes the fight overall
 
So you believe Azula wins due to her stats? Despite Bakugo's amps and versatility? Mind you, the stat difference is only about a single ton of tnt. Bakugou's mobility from psuedo flight is also quite higher than hers, and as you said, she's no where near as good at it as he is.

Her skill advantage can only hold up for so long before Bakugo figures her out, especially when he's seen far more impressive fire manip from Endeavor. Bakugo's pain tolerance and stamina are a pretty huge factor as well, as she can't exactly put him down with just a couple hits of fire.
 
I didn't say just that she wins by pure AP. I also said that she has experience fighting better fliers than Bakugo. It won't be a dog fight. Azula can take down fliers from the ground It also seems a bit dishonest to say that Bakugo will eventually figure out Azula's fighting style while also saying that Azula's fighting style and knowledge of Bakugo will both remain static. They will both learn how each other fight and both adapt their fighting style. Just because Azula never goes on any monologues about how she figured out how her openent fights doesn't mean she doesn't pay attention to it. I don't think that Bakugo will get taken down after "just a couple hits" but he will get taken down after a lot of hits. This will not be a fight of one outlasting the other through sheer stamina. They will trade hits and Azula will win. or alternatively, Bakugo will win via thorough use of stun grenade, but if he can't get a decisive take down from the first one, Azula will be more careful of it. I think the main way for Bakugo to win is to land a point blank stun grenade without severe repercussion. I just think it's much more likely for Azula to win
 
I don't think there is a single flyer in Avatar comparable to Bakugo's style. Closest I can see is Aang, whose way of flight is vastly different than Bakugo's. How can she accurately take down something in the sky that can not only amp it's speed to blitz her, but change direction almost instantly, while also firing an attack back at her, as well?

I didn't say she couldn't figure it out, it's that Bakugo has so many different ways of approaching this fight that her initial analysis becomes useless seconds later. Bakugo will immediately switch his tactics completely if he thinks his opponent has him figured out. Azula is limited to her bending techniques, fire and lightning bending, while Bakugo has no pattern that he particularly follows.

Bakugo utilizes fake outs, throws, amps, blinds, range spam, AoE's and all sorts of other skills over the course of a fight. Azula reacting to each and every single one of Bakugo's options before being defeated is doubtful at best, especially since she doesn't even have a counter to most of them. Stun grenade, howitzer impact, grenades, condensed shots and serious explosions cannot be countered by Azula just analyzing his movements, she literally cannot dodge out of the aoe of these attacks.

Why do you think Azula can avoid Bakugo without stun grenade? He can just as easily speed amp around her fire and hit her point blank with his building sized explosions so she can't dodge the damage. You're acting like stun grenade is the only win con here, as if Bakugo is completely incapable of approaching without it.

On the flip side, you're also acting as if Azula is absolutely perfect at predicting everything Bakugo can do and will never ever get hit by anything while landing all her own hits, despite fighting an opponent with better mobility than she has ever had to deal with before. What can Azula do if Bakugo just dodges all her fire bending with his speed amps, gets close to her and blows her up?

If both of them are constantly switching their tactics in response to the other, than yes, it will become a stamina battle. Unfortunately for Azula, Bakugo is way better than her at switching his tactics on the fly several times over a long fight.

It seems more likely that Bakugo overwhelms Azula with his FAR higher versatility, hax and strategies than that she will predict and analyze every single one of his fight patterns, while also being able to deal with his strength amps, speed amps, aoe, pain tolerance and stamina.
 
I think the main difference in thinking here is that you consider fire bending and lightning bending to be her 2 fighting tactics and that limits her variety, when in actuality that's like saying that a person has arms and legs and therefor only 2 methods of attack. She can use fire bending in vastly different ways just like how a person can use their arms and legs in vastly different martial arts. I'm also kind of confused as to you saying that he speed blitz's. How does he do that? I don't seem to recall any statistics amplifications. (also if you thought that Bakugo would speed blitz Azula from the start then why make the thread?)

As for the list of versitile options you gave Bakugo, fake outs may work at first, but Azula is extremely good at reading people and once the idea of a fake out is on the table, I doubt she'd fall for it a second time. That said, I believe that she would be able to take a totally successful fakeout attack though sustaining solid damage, but I also believe that she'd be able to at least partially block the first fake out.

Utilizing a throw would be extremely difficult as you'd not only need to get up close to grab and then swing with propulsion (presumably for the catapult) but you'd also need to deal with fighting Azula up close where her marginally better AP as well as just sheer striking strength will be more than Bakugo's dura can handle in quick succession even if they're trading hits. However in the off chance he does get in a throw I don't particularly see what good it'd do unless it were done in response to Azula trying to get closer

Range Spam and AoE would probably be the easiest for Azula to deal with. Especially with fire shields, Azula, along with practically everybody else in ATLA constantly shows great abilities in dodging, blocking, and countering large amounts and sizes of projectiles. It's in practically every fight. In fact, range spam and AoE are both things that Azula also does herself. Does Bakugo have any tactic against that besides dodging? Because if not, he'll be getting hit a lot more than Azula in a mostly projectile based combat even if Bakugo's in the air. Simple AoE attacks should help bring Bakugo back to the ground
 
Most of Azula's options for response against Bakugo's tactics are literally just her shooting fire at where she thinks he's going to be. Her fire bending is no where near vast enough to consistently hit someone like Bakugo as easily as you're suggesting. He has speed amps for his psuedo flight, he can't outright blitz her the whole match.

How would she prepare herself for a fake out? Azula has no way of knowing when Bakugo is going to blow her up or use stun grenade. I don't recall her ever having such a good ability at reading people that she can predict every single one of their moves just from seeing them once.

His throw works by him maneuvering close to Azula then grabbing her by her hair or shoulders. Stun grenade is going to be used here as well, which you yourself still know she has no counter to other than "guess when he's going to do it."

Again, her AP is NOT more than Bakugo can handle, no where near it. Bakugo can handle getting pummeled far worse than Azula can dish out. She is not remotely strong enough physically to keep Bakugo away from her. You are relying on a difference that is smaller than you think.

Azula is MAYBE around 4 tons, and that's with benefit to Combustion Man scaling. Without that, she's 3.3 tons. Why do you believe a difference of AT MOST a single ton is going to matter at all to Bakugo, who takes hits from people stronger than him for extended periods of time and can fight for hours? Bakugo can literally ignore the pain of constantly breaking bones, Azula hitting him is not going to seriously hurt him. Also, if he's close, big explosions blows her away. She cannot block his explosions if he is up close.
 
Bakugo's AoE is larger than her fire shields, and fire shields don't even completely protect the user from sheer force. Note how you say "projectiles." Bakugo is using explosions, which actually seem to be the single most difficult thing for anyone in Avatar to block.

So, in response to that comment, he can just blow her fire away with his explosions if you want another way to counter her fire bending. Explosions have been shown to be incredibly difficult to counter with bending in the series so if dodging, which Bakugo could do quite easily since Azula has no where near the aoe to actually hit him if he blasts away from her fire, doesn't work, he can just blow up her attacks.

Why would simple aoe attacks bring Bakugo down? He changes his position mid air more dramatically than you're assuming. There doesn't seem to be a move in Azula's arsenal that could hit him if he is constantly changing direction midair. You do understand Azula's attacks actually have a travel time, correct?

There still seems to be no answer to Bakugo's AP amps or stamina as well. A howitzer impact would critically damage Azula, what's her response to that? Or a stun grenade into Gauntlet blast? Heck, Azula having no resistance to stun grenade other than attempting to predict it, when Bakugo is known for faking people out, guarantees free hits.
 
I feel like we're going no where with posting huge text walls back and forth, as fun as it is, so I feel we should go back to the base arguments so our main points aren't lost. I think it's my fault, but I'll try to rectify it.

Currently, I think Bakugo, due to his multiple ways of combating Azula, the minimal at best stat disadvantage and his high versatility and mobility can overwhelm Azula's skill. Especially since some of his options are things she just can't counter.

Your thoughts?
 
I believe that Azula could handle Bakugo's higher mobility and could likely predict his moves just as well as he can predict hers, if not better near the start of the fight since Azula is known for being great at deception and is amazing at reading her oponents. I also think that she could take on Bakugo at close range which would make a fair amount of his options null and void
 
Yes, but as you say, that's only near the start of the fight. When Bakugo starts constantly switching tactics, do you believe Azula is going to get out of it unscathed? When he starts throwing in his better, even more versatile moves, how does she keep up?

His close range options are just larger explosions while near her. Even if she predicts and throws up a fire shield, his explosions can still harm her if it's big enough. A close range AP shot might even just pierce her fire shield.
 
I don't think she'll get out unscathed, but I think that Bakugo will end up suffering more damage than her. He may have more stamina, but if they continue to trade hits then Azula will win long before she would tire out. Also, about explosions being harder for ATLA characters to combat, just about everybody was able to at least partially block combustion man's explosions which were on average more powerful than Bakugo's explosions. Not to mention, Azula is more powerful in pure AP/Dura than a fair amount of the attacks that partially blocked combustion man, so I believe that she wouldn't have an issue with Bakugo's explosives, including the howitzer since she should be able to prepare for the impact as it's about to happen
 
In fact, at long distance I think Azula probably has enough base AP to take Bakugo's explosions from afar
 
How would he suffer more damage? He adapts to his opponents fighting style just as fast as she can, and he's the one with an ever changing approach. How does Azula not get hurt more than him when she has to adapt to far more than he has to?

The difference in AP/Dura is almost non existent though? She scales to a max of 4 tons compared to Bakugo's 3.19. That's not exactly enough of a difference to say it's a win con, especially with Bakugo flying all over the place with AP amps. His explosions have only slightly lower Potency at range, not enough for her to take safely.

The Howitzer Impact is a drill type move, how would she defend against it or an AP shot? Her fire shield would be getting distorted the second he clashes with it, or just pierced by the force.
 
Also Bakugo's durability is actually higher than 3.19 tons. He tanks 3.19 tons every time he shoots his explosions, and only his gauntlet tier explosions actually damage him. So 3.19 is for his standard attacks only, his amps and durability are higher.
 
3.19 vs 4 tons feels like at least decent enough of a difference to be natable to me, but to be honest, I have no idea where those numbers are coming from. the highest actual calc I could find from Bakugo's page was at 1.28 tons, but since that was for his lower bound on AP I'll give you 3.19. However with Azula, her flames went all the way up to 13 tons, so I think the difference is a bit more jarring than you're making it out to be
 
FRIMI said:
3.19 vs 4 tons feels like at least decent enough of a difference to be natable to me, but to be honest, I have no idea where those numbers are coming from. the highest actual calc I could find from Bakugo's page was at 1.28 tons, but since that was for his lower bound on AP I'll give you 3.19. However with Azula, her flames went all the way up to 13 tons, so I think the difference is a bit more jarring than you're making it out to be
Click to expand...
She is only 8-B with Sozin's Comet, and what are the chances of that happening.
 
oh I was opperating under the assumption that Sozin's Comet was in effect, though now that I think about it idk why. Ima need to rethink this one hold on.
 
3.19 comes from scaling to Izuku Midoriya who harmed Kai Chisaki. Since Zuko doesn't have an actual value, Azula should actually still be 3.3 tons, but should be stronger somewhat as well, so I rounded her up to 4 tons. I don't know exactly what partially blocking combustion man would give as a value.

Azula only reaches 13 tons with Sozin's comet.
 
yeah I looked at that scale from harming him, but I couldn't find the number 3.19. could you direct me to the specific calc used? Also, S3 Azula still scales to S3 Zuko whose fire matched an explosion from Combustion man which ranges somewhere between 1.5 tons and 18.885, so it's actually a bit fuzzy. Still don't know where 3.3 came from though

EDIT: I see now that 3.3 came from a calc done for season 2 Azula, not season 3 Azula
 
Overhaul is superior to his subordinates that took this, and he personally took air pressure from Deku that was way stronger than this.
 
I see. Azula is absolutely higher than 3.3 though. probably higher than 4 too, but I can't strictly say that for sure
 
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