She hasn't really. Augoeides is assumed to be the strongest form of an astral being, and though the demon lords have yet to show theirs either, ones at their level are consistently stated to possess power to causally perform feats that grant them the H4C rating. You can read on her Augoeides tab, which every angel and demon has.
Bastard mangaka is the most ******** mangaka fr lmaoThe name of Diane
I should read it lmao
I mean the manga has that scene so yeah it probably normal in BastardThe name of Diane
Isn't the guy who made it a hentai artist?
Yeah he even drew doujins of bastard!! lmao
That wouldn't help much. While she goes from one planet to another, a new terminal would just be created on the planet she just left. Additionally, some terminals are on a separate plane of existence, called the Divine World, which can only be reached through info manip type 2. (A digital realm, so to say) Which, if we are doing plane with different natures arguments, I guess Diane doesn't have the range to affect...
Can I see some proof that the general concept would disappear instead of just the concept of that terminal in particular?
What were the planes again? 'cause Balancer can affect mind and soul and stuff.
If all of these are some forms of immo type 8 and 9 then Porno can negate.
Because in Bastard!! if you destroy Astral or Material bodies of one being, they can still regenerate as long as the Ideal body exists, but if Ideal body gets destroyed then all other bodies get destroyed as well, since it's the true and only one concept that governs all others.
The first plane is the plane of material body, the second is emotional/mental aspects and the third plane (the highest one) is where the fundamental soul resides.
Can't she just null that?
It would need to be proved that each terminal has a separate concept of its own I think. Plus, we need evidence that every terminal is precisely as ''important'' as the main one, as in, all of the terminals need to be put down to count as a victory (kinda like acausal type 3 but on a smaller scale).
Planes here means each of her aspect of existence (mind, emotion, soul/concept etc) resides on actual separate dimensions.
First off, the body on the physical plane is simply a manifestation of their true abstract nature, and that verse explicitly explains that in order to count for a win, you would need to have other bodies (which reside on different dimensions/planes of existence) put down at the same time, so if anything that won't really a win even if she can continually incap Diane's material body.
Precisely 2 layers more abstract than the laws of space, time, and fate, causality, which I think can be at least comparable to info type 2 of OAGP.
I think DT's looking for this type of answer so
Not really. Like, not in common sense of a supernatural type 8, at least. It's just... separately created entities basically? Balancer is a computer-like entity, I'm fairly sure he just creates the terminals.
So why would all terminals have the same ideal body? Balancer doesn't really have Bastard!!'s physiology, after all. He's more a network of computers than a regular living being as well. Like, you're basically arguing that if she hits a computer the internet is erased. Feel like that's different from hitting a person that has some true form on another plane, and then destroying all avatars of that because the true form was erased.
So would it be fair to say that Balancer can affect those, since it can manipulate sould and mental stuff, or not due to being different planes?
Not enough range for that. Balancer starts 4km away from her and Diane's range is listed as 1m at most.
What is "spacetime level" supposed to mean? In Kawakami-verse spacetime is 2 levels of abstraction below information type 2, so I doubt it works in any case.
For no reason other than her counting as BFRd if not. If you're permanently banished to a different plane you lose.
Has she shown the ability for her null to interact with Type 2 Information?
As far as we know there is no main terminal. None was ever demonstrated to be of particular importance.
Alright. Well, Balancer hasn't demonstrated to be able to enter those, so I guess he can't get her on those planes. Then again, other way around, I would argue Diane can't get him on the information plane.
The verse's definition of winning is of no consequence to SBA, though. So yeah, if they can't exist in physical Central Park, but just on another plane, then that's BFR. Because that's how the SBA defines that win condition.
Iwanaga-hime technically doesn't manipulate life force, but life span. Like, this isn't an issue of manipulating some energy, this is some abstract bs.
Unless that HGR can restore the erased information I don't think it works. Additionally, Iwanaga-hime's power works for above baseline. It bypasses all divine ranks, which should resist it, and additionally, like all authorities, it's non-negatable / resistable to the point that doing so counts as a logical paradox and gets concepts involved. With that we get to the point that I think Kawakami-verse concepts are something like "above baseline", but what exactly I mean with that I will explain in a later post, if necessary.
That's about the same abstractness as true names in Kawakami-verse abstraction hierarchy then (which gods can negate. Idk if you wanted to suggest to equalize based on abstraction level so I just mention it preemptively). Good to know for later in this debate.
So if I understand correctly the terminal is created as long as Balancer exists? If so then can she just ignore all of those terminals and straight-up destroy Balancer instead? Plus they don't need to be the same entities to have "normal" type 8, that's never the requirement.
Because why there is no concept that governs all of them at once? Balancer has its concept of existence so there's no difference at all. A computer and the internet don't share a similar concept in particular, my argument is like destroying the concept of animals thus all kinds of animals disappear. Plus I'm fairly sure that this is something that type 2 concept can already do by default and here we're talking about type 1 concept that predates reality so she must be able to do so. And yes it's similar to erasing a true form, but the true form here is a concept.
The latter.
If she can negate those with HGR on the informational level then that means her negation is really good, but that doesn't mean the lifespan draining will erase someone on the informational level so Diane just needs to regenerate without caring about all of those information stuff? Like, we don't really treat those who can negate the regeneration of only the mind/soul can negate the regeneration of full physical body despite the former is more abstract because all of them are different aspects, so I think here it's no different. Plus again this is not passive so Diane just needs to kill faster.
If Diane doesn't resist, has no dimensional travel or capability to negate the BFR (yea she can do all of that) then maybe Balancer can banish like, only the material body. What you said is not only against the idea of creating pages like immo 9 or acau 3 (what is the purpose if they can't even be used in a match?), but Diane's Astral and Ideal bodies can manifest, travel and appear anywhere across three planes of existence, even the physical one so yea, Balancer needs to incap them all.
Isn't power-null in this wiki kinda treated on the basis of the level of hax which it has shown to nullify? Especially in this case concepts type 1 is on the same level as type 2 info. If we stick to that way, then neither can Balancer affect Diane at all, since Dispel Bounds, which are conceptual type 1 in nature, need to be either blown away or straight up negated for any of Diane's body (including the material one) to be interacted with. Seeing concept type 1 cannot affect type 2 info and vice-versa, I don't see how Balancer would be able to affect Porno in the first place.
She can since her attacks would erase beings who have the exact same physiology (of multiple bodies scattering throughout different planes).
That isn't really the same case here, as you are arguing that all the bodies need to be put down at once. I'm asking for proof of where it's treated like that since the same argument can be made for Porno.
Wouldn't this just mean Porno doesn't need to care about other bodies of Balancer? If she gets rid of the version that is in range of SBA, that would count as a victory.
That would further reinforce Delta's argument, lifespan being an element of an individual's whole record of existence, i.e their fate. And yes they are indeed capable of regenerating, negating, and resisting regen negation on that level.
Diane doesn't need to resist the effect of getting her lifespan cut so it doesn't matter if said hax is irresistible , she only needs to regenerate the physical body though, as explained pretty much above, from lower-tiers so the regeneration layers scaling is quite thick and it isn't the same as hax potency/layers.
Pretty much this and DT even uses the idea of some terminals within separate plane like digital realm, yet when Diane follows the same principle (and likely even better in term of combat applicable) he said that fully affecting all planes doesn't matter.
Bastard!! side even has statements indicating the necessity of getting rid of all the bodies that reside on different planes at the same time.
Pretty sure porno means **** in english also
You guys are saying that like I just argued "other planes don't matter lol". I specifically said that the reason she loses is BFR due to not being able to return to the material plane, as Iwanaga has a technique which specifically doesn't allow that.
All terminals are considered to be the same entity in the verse. What exactly "one character" is can be difficult when it comes to hive mind-like stuff, but usually if the verse considers something a single character, then it's a single character. It's not hard to see why they consider that either. Each terminal is connected to the others and, with rare exceptions, shares its information with them. They also all have the same personality and stuff and, being a computer, there is no such thing as an individual interpretation. I.e. you can talk with one terminal and then walk over and fluently continue the conversation with another terminal, without it feeling like you are actually chatting with someone else. It goes in the direction of a Type 2 Hive Mind, basically.
I think you misunderstand something, my point is not to defeat Balancer through BFR, but if Diane needs to get rid of all of Balancer's terminals for the win then I don't see why Balancer doesn't need to defeat all of Diane's bodies, as they follow pretty much the same principle.
Wouldn't it be more of type 1 Hive Mind from the way you describe? Regardless, they do have the shared properties needed for Porno to destroy said essence in common, every of Balancer's terminals or whatever they are called will get nuked alongside that shared essence presenting in one body.
First time I hear about her having other bodies. What's that about? You mean on the physical plane, right? How many are there and where? Although Iwanaga's technique can affect all of humanity, so unless it's really a lot she might just get rid of them in one go.
It's not Outside Influence. It's the same character, whether that agrees with your philosophical view of what an individual is or not. The fiction's opinion that all terminals are the one entity known as Balancer supersedes. And the rule is that you have to defeat the entire character. And that's an established standard, even for hive mind type 2 in particular. There have been matches with other Type 2 hive mind and it's always that you have to defeat the entire thing.
It's an edge case. The reason I say it's type 2 is because each terminal apparently has its own memory space. The memories are typically synchronized, but Balancer's task is to exists each faction completely neutrally. To ensure that nothing can accidentally slip, one terminal can decide to not share some specific piece of information with another one. So they are all the same, except that terminals working with Shinto people would for example not know that the Mesopotamia guys send an inspector to them.
Honestly, I still question the whole "oneness" thing regarding it. Like, the internet analogy works pretty well. Balancer is pretty much a programm running in the cloud. So, I still feel like her ability would need to be the type to erase computers instead of just the entity.
If you go with abstractness and based on that equalize info to concept, I have bad news. First, while not Balancer himself, all the gods he summons do resist that. And second, those gods can use true names to control things which is a layer more abstract. One thing that can be done with true names is to just use the power of the opponent against them.
Fate is one or two layers of abstractness below what Iwanaga operates on, so no it's not fate.
Nah, that doesn't solve it because whatever she regenerates has a lifespan of 0, meaning it's already dead and erased. There is no physical body without lifespan. In case I wasn't clear: Iwanaga reducing lifespan to 0 erases things. They don't just die.
I mean, the reason we assume Balancer can't get on those planes is only because they have a different nature from the information plane he can get on. So the situation is symmetric.
Three bodies; Ideal, Astral and Material bodies that spread across three planes of existence. Affecting all of humanity oblivious doesn't work as they all exist within the same reality.
Which means Balancer needs to defeat Diane in the same way as well. That said, can you tell me how are these terminals created? As I already said:
Edit: Just saw your arguments for Painkiller, you mention to precog but I wonder what does that even mean for an acau 4 above baseline being like Diane.
So long as they are still conceptually bound to each other, I see no problem for Porno to get rid of them entirely by destroying just one.
She is a large size type 2 at the very least, with layers of shields covering her body that have the effect to erase and nullify everything up to the conceptual level. The diameter extends in accordance to the user's body size, which at Porno's-a being that surpasses even the demon lords would be approximately this big. Therefore, trying to avoid the chicken game is definitely not a good option (even if it's the only way), as Diane'd just need to crash into the terminals without even needing to come into contact thanks to EE barriers covering hundreds of meters around her vicinity. Also, it's not uncommon for demons to face with ppl that teleport constantly. The chances of Balancer being able to prevent Diane from entering his honestly slim, her flight/travel speed is literally just as fast as her flexibility in combat (which would turn into an immediate blitz with speed unequal, but let's leave that for now).
I rolled into the debate so much that I almost forgot to mention stuff at the beginning lol. So yeah, Balancer would at best get paralyzed as soon as he saw her, at worst, he won't be able to do anything that involves the usage of consciousness, let alone proceeding calculations...
If it's just the power that gets copied then Porno passively nullifies that in numerous ways. Angels and demons manage to bypass other defensive mechanisms and damage each other thanks to a tremendous amount of resistances.
Astral beings already transcend fundamental aspects of the material plane on 2 levels so it's not the baseline fate that they regenerate, they are stated to fix their fate/spatial-temporal existence, which would be space-time structure in the highest plane that is also 2 layers more abstract than, well, the definition of conventional fate.
She doesn't need to enter the Digital world in order to kill those within it, as long as the ones in physical plane exist and there is connection between them and those in Digital world, any random hits from Diane to those in the same reality will result in the destruction of all terminals at once. Angels and demons literally have negation to this kind of immortality.
