Base Sonic MFTL-MFTL+ speed upgrade

[LaserPrecision]

While I personally believe Sonic can be placed even above MFTL+, I'll discuss why Base Sonic (Or even Classic Sonic) should be upgraded to MFTL speed.

In Sonic 4, episode Metal, a feat I see that appears to be overlooked is Metal Sonic traveling interstellar distance to reach Earth (From Little Planet to Earth)

(Video if you prefer it over a gif):

He pulls off said feat in roughly 15 seconds.

In said cutscene Eggman also shows Metal Sonic the distance between Little Planet and Earth:

3,246,672,691 miles or kilometers I presume away from Earth. But given its Japanese production/origin I'd assume It's kilometers. It being miles or kilometers makes sense as this is interstellar travel. In addition comma's are used instead of period's so the chance of it being some absurd coordinate is preposterous. But for fun I'll calculate it using both miles and kilometers

If we use miles: 3,246,672,691/15 = 216,444,846 m/s. 1161.917x FTL.
If we use kilometers: 3,246,672,691/15 = 216444846 k/s. 721.982x FTL.

Take your pick, either are MFTL. One is MFTL+. Sonic scales to Metal Sonic. Keep in mind two things by the way. This was a damaged CLASSIC Metal Sonic. The same Metal Sonic who lost in a race against Classic Sonic. So Modern Sonic's certainly faster. This would also allow for an increase in Metal Sonic's speed/reaction speed and anyone who scales to him in anything past the Classic era

And if consistency is brought up I'd like to present another calculation I stumbled upon. It's one used on Super Sonic's vs wiki thread ironically. That being this feat

How does this apply to Base Sonic though? Simple, Sonic in his Base Form was capable of keeping pace with Eggman's Eggmobile which ALSO pulled off this feat in Sonic Unleashed (Which Eggman was surprised by):
(Dubbbed line)

(Subbed line)

Thus Base Sonic should scale to the feat Super Sonic pulled off PRIOR to this game. It would be quite hypocritical to state Eggman scales to an inferior Super Sonic like the wiki even explains, and then deny Sonic of MFTL status despite him keeping pace with Eggman's Eggmobile (Especially considering Eggman was surprised):

Keep in mind Sonic DOES improve at a great rate, thus Sonic can be stronger than a Super Sonic of the past (Sonic can also control the power of his Super Form, but that's irrelevant) as shown when his Super Form in Sonic Adventure requires like what, 8 hits to defeat Perfect Chaos? Yet Base Sonic in Sonic Generations is capable of defeating the same Perfect Chaos in 4 hits. So there's no reason to say Sonic Unleashed Sonic can't be more powerful or faster than Sonic Advanced era Super Sonic.

There's one final feat. I also stumbled upon it and didn't quite believe it:

But upon closer inspection I would say it's viable. The stories or other worlds in the Arabian Nights books DO appear to be Universes (Worlds) of their own and some of them are described as having infinite space in them:

So you could try to argue this potentially being an Infinite speed feat. But that's not what I'm hear to focus on. What I want to draw your attention to is the cutscene the calculation is referring to:

(Note, saying he ran endlessly could refer to the time frame or could be saying he crossed infinite distances, which could again mean an infinite speed feat. Which I brought up right before showcasing screenshots of the cutscene)

If you interpret it as he crossed an endless distance that would be an infinite speed feat. If you interpret it as a long period of time, there's no WAY it took that long if he didn't traverse through stories/universes and this is confirmed by Shahra who says this immediately after that last line

Along the way when searching how to get back to his world he had many adventures. Confirming he entered multiple stories/universes (I believe the Arabian Nights book to be a mini-multiverse in the game).

While you could argue it took a really long time to get back to his world via the endless statement, as the feat said it couldn't have taken that long because in Generations his Birthday occurs and he either turns 15 or 16 because in Sonic Heroes it was stated Sonic was 15

So he should be 16. But the reason I said he could still be 15 is because his age was never given in that game and on the official Sonic Channel website SEGA still has Sonic's age listed as 15.
Either way this means that Sonic couldn't have been in the book for more than a year. Meaning the feat is MFTL-MFTL+ regardless. At best you can argue it's an infinite speed feat but I'm more than content with a MFTL-MFTL+ speed upgrade for Sonic for now.

Oh wait, I almost actually forgot one more feat. Silly me. This happens quite frequently. Anyways, another feat from Sonic Runners the mobile game (Which can be considered canon as it fits into the Timeline and explains why the Wisps are on Earth):

Only problem is they seemed to mess up the speed calculation by dividing the distance by light-speed. For what reason? I'm not sure. It should be distance divided by time. So let me fix the calculation for them

52,907,629,871,236/1 = 52,907,629,871,236 m/s. 284018408.119x FTL.

Alright, that's the final feat that I can recall off the top of my head. Albeit there may be more I missed. Fingers crossed that this is more than enough to upgrade Sonic's speed.

Edit: Regarding the Sonic Advanced 2 feat. It has been pointed out that said battle likely took place near the Earth which would no longer qualify as a MFTL or MFTL+ speed feat. This is due to a planet in the background being visible that could very well be Earth. The possibility of it being another planet is also possible given that according to the map Sonic had to travel to some weird location for the fight, but not much clarification is given on it. It could be anything from a Galaxy, a Star, a Solar System, etc.

However, I would like to provide an alternative. In Sonic Advanced 3 Sonic has traveled to the non-aggression zone which has been calculated to be MFTL+ and Eggman also keeps up with Sonic in this feat: (Link to the calculation: Non-Aggression Zone feat). Thus the Egg Mobile being MFTL+ still stands. Which Sonic would scale to as in Unleashed he caught up to it and Eggman acted very surprised that Sonic was capable of doing it.

Another feat that I would now like to list off is involving a Babylon calc. It was considered an Outlier but scaled to the Base Sonic characters. The reason why was because at the time MFTL or MFTL+ meta's didn't exist. However, with what I've provided this can now be considered an actual viable calculation and not an Outlier:

So while 1 point has been greatly questioned, I've supplemented two more MFTL+ feats.

 

[TyranoDoom30]

Neutral so far

 

[ElixirBlue]

MFTL-MFTL+

Do we have this rating?

 

[TyranoDoom30]

Do we have this rating?

Depeding on the version of this calc, it's MFTL or MFTL+

 

[Theuser789]

But for fun I'll calculate it using both miles and kilometers

Or you can use meters, which places it at simply FTL

Sonic like the wiki even explains, and then deny Sonic of MFTL status despite him keeping pace with Eggman's Eggmobile (Especially considering Eggman was surprised):

That tabber is the 4-A mechs, not the Eggmobile

 

[sanicspood]

following

 

[LaserPrecision]

Or you can use meters, which places it at simply FTL


That tabber is the 4-A mechs, not the Eggmobile

If you use meters it's slower than light, not FTL.
3,246,672,691 meters/15 seconds = 216444846.066 meters per second.

Which seems FAAAAAR more unlikely.

Mercury, the closest planet to Earth is 133,007,504 kilometers away from Earth. Traveling from there to Earth in 15 seconds would be 29x the speed of light. I find it highly unlikely that it's a relativistic speed feat and closer to Earth than the closest planet to Earth. I would say Kilometers or Miles feels safer. Especially given that light-speed and FTL speeds Sonic and Metal Sonic are associated with. I think MFTL seems more appropriate.

Albeit, even without it there are the other feats I suppose.

Also my mistake, I don't believe they listed that they were talking about the 4-A mechs. However it should be noted that Eggman's Eggmobile shares that speed feat with Super Sonic in the Advanced game, which is an MFTL+ speed feat. And Eggman was surprised Sonic could keep up. I would definitely seems to imply that it's indeed MFTL+.

 

[Theuser789]

Mercury, the closest planet to Earth is 133,007,504 kilometers away from Earth. Traveling from there to Earth in 15 seconds would be 29x the speed of light. I find it highly unlikely that it's a relativistic speed feat and closer to Earth than the closest planet to Earth. I would say Kilometers or Miles feels safer. Especially given that light-speed and FTL speeds Sonic and Metal Sonic are associated with. I think MFTL seems more appropriate.

Little Planet being close to Earth makes perfect sense with the lore given in CD

 

[LaserPrecision]

Little Planet being close to Earth makes perfect sense with the lore given in CD

It appears in Earth's atmosphere every so often correct (Once at the end of every month or something like that)? But then it disappears for a long period of time. We saw in the good ending that Little Planet dissapeared.
Sonic 4 episode Metal Sonic takes place soon after Sonic 3 & Knuckles or somewhere around that period of time, and in addition isn't anywhere near Earth's orbit or atmosphere and didn't appear to be moving. It was anything but close to Earth. Feels like Eggman found it after a lot of searching and ordered Metal Sonic to travel there after tazing him awake.

 

[DragonLord]

This Seems to have been forgotten but I’d want to ask/add about another time Sonic and Co outpaced the EggMobile that comes from Sonic Runners since that game was brought up



at 0:49 you have to outpace the EggMobile to hit it, this happens in Story Mode as well iirc, I believe this also happens in Runner’s Sequel Runners Adventure

 

[LaserPrecision]

This Seems to have been forgotten but I’d want to ask/add about another time Sonic and Co outpaced the EggMobile that comes from Sonic Runners since that game was brought up



at 0:49 you have to outpace the EggMobile to hit it, this happens in Story Mode as well iirc, I believe this also happens in Runner’s Sequel Runners Adventure

Ah, good eye.

I wasn't actually aware a sequel to Sonic Runner's existed. Thanks for telling me about it. I just may look into that to see if that game also has MFTL-MFTL+ feats in it as well.

 

[DragonLord]

Ah, good eye.

I wasn't actually aware a sequel to Sonic Runner's existed. Thanks for telling me about it. I just may look into that to see if that game also has MFTL-MFTL+ feats in it as well.

Be Warned it’s uh, not very good

 

[LaserPrecision]

Be Warned it’s uh, not very good

Shame, I thoroughly enjoyed the first one. Thanks for the warning though. Now my hopes won't be set as high, lol.

 

[DragonLord]

Since we’re on the Egg Mobile bit, I remember back in the day on narutoforums there was a calc for the Moment in Sonic advance 1 where Eggman Crosses the Earth to go to the moon in a short amount of time, and then Super Sonic doing it, does that have a Calc here?

2:00

 

[ElixirBlue]

Since we’re on the Egg Mobile bit, I remember back in the day on narutoforums there was a calc for the Moment in Sonic advance 1 where Eggman Crosses the Earth to go to the moon in a short amount of time, and then Super Sonic doing it, does that have a Calc here?

2:00

Check if its here:

Sonic the Hedgehog (Main Continuity)

Sonic the Hedgehog is a video game franchise created and owned by Sega's Sonic Team division that began its legacy in 1991, during the 16-bit era of the gaming industry. The franchise centres on a series of speed-based platform games, with several spin-offs in different genres. The protagonist...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[DragonLord]

Check if its here:

Sonic the Hedgehog (Main Continuity)

Sonic the Hedgehog is a video game franchise created and owned by Sega's Sonic Team division that began its legacy in 1991, during the 16-bit era of the gaming industry. The franchise centres on a series of speed-based platform games, with several spin-offs in different genres. The protagonist...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Don’t think i see it, unless there’s something I’m missing

Strange I actually remember finding it here but I can’t remember exactly

 

[sanicspood]

bump

 

[Gabs22_Gamer]

Along the way when searching how to get back to his world he had many adventures. Confirming he entered multiple stories/universes (I believe the Arabian Nights book to be a mini-multiverse in the game).

Assuming this logic, Alf-Layla would be upgraded to 2-C then, but that is account for a separate thread, of course.

Aside from that, I can agree on MFTL Base Sonic or MFTL+ btw.

 

[LaserPrecision]

Check if its here:

Sonic the Hedgehog (Main Continuity)

Sonic the Hedgehog is a video game franchise created and owned by Sega's Sonic Team division that began its legacy in 1991, during the 16-bit era of the gaming industry. The franchise centres on a series of speed-based platform games, with several spin-offs in different genres. The protagonist...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Ohhhh! Thanks for that! It actually provides another feat for MFTL+ Sonic characters. It's stated it isn't used because it's considered an Outlier. But when used in addition to mine it would no longer be considered an Outlier right? I'm referring to this:

Here was the conclusion of the result:

Thanks to this post consisting of feats and scaling considering MFTL and MFTL+ Sonic this would now be consistent and not an outlier. Further cementing the argument as opposed to an Outlier, right? I would think so.

 

[Da_Lunge_Fish]

Metal Sonic feat is interesting. And what suggests the distance in Advance 2 feat?

 

[LaserPrecision]

Metal Sonic feat is interesting. And what suggests the distance in Advance 2 feat?

You know, I'm not quite sure. However, this isn't the only time I've seen the feat calculated to be that distance. In fact, vs wiki ITS SELF has calc'ed the feat to also be MFTL+: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/U...r/Sonic_Advance_3:_Super_Sonic_Speed_Recalced
So the feat being MFTL+.

Edit: I realized upon reading this that the link was to Sonic Advanced 3, not Advanced 2. However, in said calc I showed in my original post, the distance Sonic needs to cover is shown here:

What looks to be another Galaxy or something on the very right based on appearance would suggest its distance.

 

[Oleggator]

It's actually pretty interesting I should say. Following.

 

[DragonLord]

Assuming this logic, Alf-Layla would be upgraded to 2-C then, but that is account for a separate thread, of course.

Aside from that, I can agree on MFTL Base Sonic or MFTL+ btw.

Well, if Each Story is it’s own Universe that would actually be 2-B since it’s the 1001 Arabian Nights, although I assume that probably a stretch

though actually I think there’s a statement that calls it countless

 

[LaserPrecision]

Well, if Each Story is it’s own Unvierse that would actually be 2-B since it’s the 1001 Arabian Nights, although I assume that probably a stretch

Potentially. I'm on and off about whether or not EACH Arabian Nights is a separate Universe. I don't want to just assume that since the story is called the 1001 Arabian Nights that there's 1001 stories which are all Universes.
However, the game would seem to suggest it when Erazor Djinn seems to treats each separate Arabian Night as its own thing:

This is also what I use on other platforms to give Base Sonic a Low-Multiversal ranking as Sonic defeated Erazor Djinn later on in the game in Base. Albeit if my memory serves me right it was stated by narration that he could only win through timing his attacks perfectly and attacking his weak spot. I also argue the consistency of it Time Eater, Infinite, and other stuff which I place at Universal+ to Low-Multiversal.

I may need to cover this on a separate thread. I may do that soon.

 

[Theuser789]

We can literally see the Earth in the background in Sonic Advance 2 final battle

 

[Da_Lunge_Fish]

You know, I'm not quite sure. However, this isn't the only time I've seen the feat calculated to be that distance. In fact, vs wiki ITS SELF has calc'ed the feat to also be MFTL+: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/U...r/Sonic_Advance_3:_Super_Sonic_Speed_Recalced
So the feat being MFTL+.

Edit: I realized upon reading this that the link was to Sonic Advanced 3, not Advanced 2. However, in said calc I showed in my original post, the distance Sonic needs to cover is shown here:

What looks to be another Galaxy or something on the very right based on appearance would suggest its distance.

That's the sonic advance 3 calc. I mean advance 2 one

 

[Gabs22_Gamer]

That's the sonic advance 3 calc. I mean advance 2 one

Edit: I realized upon reading this that the link was to Sonic Advanced 3, not Advanced 2. However, in said calc I showed in my original post, the distance Sonic needs to cover is shown here:

 

[LaserPrecision]

We can literally see the Earth in the background in Sonic Advance 2 final battle

Hm, is it possible that it could be another planet? We've seen Sonic's world from outerspace and it looks similar to Earth, but in the boss battle it seems to be a planet consistent of mostly water or at least little to no land:

I could be wrong but from this angle or what could be Earth it's hard to tell with how blue the hue is. Especially with the constant warping of the background.

 

[LaserPrecision]

That's the sonic advance 3 calc. I mean advance 2 one

Oh I know, I edited my initial reply to you after realizing I made that mistake. It has an explanation there. Although if the Earth being the planet in the background is true then the feat can be discredited. Albeit now that I've showcased the Sonic Advanced 3 calc Eggman also flew there too and thus would still have an MFTL+ Egg Mobile and thus Base Sonic catching up to it would still be impressive. Eggman's shown flying to the non-agrression zone here:

 

[Da_Lunge_Fish]

Oh I know, I edited my initial reply to you after realizing I made that mistake. It has an explanation there. Although if the Earth being the planet in the background is true then the feat can be discredited. Albeit now that I've showcased the Sonic Advanced 3 calc Eggman also flew there too and thus would still have an MFTL+ Egg Mobile and thus Base Sonic catching up to it would still be impressive. Eggman's shown flying to the non-agrression zone here:

Wait, was the feat in question SA3 one from the beginning?

 

[LaserPrecision]

Wait, was the feat in question SA3 one from the beginning?

Do you mean the initial feat I showcased? If so then no. I was told that the final boss of Sonic Advanced 2 could take place in space near Earth. I questioned it in case it could just possibly be another Planet.
So I brought up SA3 as a backup feat because in that game Eggman DOES pull off an MFTL+ feat with Super Sonic. Thus regardless of if we discredit the Sonic Advanced 2 feat, Eggman's still MFTL+ and Base Sonic still scales.

If this is not what you meant a bit of clarification would help.

 

[DragonLord]

Hm, is it possible that it could be another planet? We've seen Sonic's world from outerspace and it looks similar to Earth, but in the boss battle it seems to be a planet consistent of mostly water or at least little to no land:

I could be wrong but from this angle or what could be Earth it's hard to tell with how blue the hue is. Especially with the constant warping of the background.

Well in Advance 1 the Earth from the Moon looked like this, it seems to be a different Sprite

 

[LaserPrecision]

Well in Advance 1 the Earth from the Moon looked like this, it seems to be a different Sprite

Huh, you're right. It could very well be Earth. My mistake. Although I do think it's weird that they'd show something that appears to be another Galaxy if he didn't need to traverse that far (If not another Galaxy, something that appears to be another Solar System?):

It's possible the fight could take place at our Star and thus the Earth is still visible which could explain the weird figure shown present in space. But it looks very weird to be our Sun. Albeit even if we say the fight took place near the sun the feat still comes out as about 99x lightspeed from what I remember which is borderline MFTL. But since this feat is questionable I'll probably stick to SA3's non-aggression zone feat which is MFTL+ and still works in favor of my MFTL-MFTL+ argument.

 

[DragonLord]

For Further Reference, here’s what the Prima Guide see it as

“His Alter Ego Super Sonic” Lol

 

[Oleggator]

Hm, is it possible that it could be another planet? We've seen Sonic's world from outerspace and it looks similar to Earth, but in the boss battle it seems to be a planet consistent of mostly water or at least little to no land:

I could be wrong but from this angle or what could be Earth it's hard to tell with how blue the hue is. Especially with the constant warping of the background.

Hmmmmm, was implied the probability of the fact that Sonic and his friends are likely live in 2 planets because of Forces? That probably off topic but still.

 

[DragonLord]

Hmmmmm, was implied the probability of the fact that Sonic and his friends are likely live in 2 planets because of Forces? That probably off topic but still.

Going by the Two Worlds idea, the Sonic Advance + Battle Series would likely be on Human Earth due to all the call backs to SA2 and Humans like Maria and Gearld in Battle and Having Central City which appears in Shadow

 

[LaserPrecision]

Hmmmmm, was implied the probability of the fact that Sonic and his friends are likely live in 2 planets because of Forces? That probably off topic but still.

While that's true even the Planet Sonic lives on looks different from space, based upon the basic view we get of it in Sonic Forces

You can easily see huge chunks of land.

Even from other views you can visibly see landmasses of random size across the entire globe of Sonic's world in said 'other world' within the Sonicverse.

You could argue via Sonic Colors that it DOES look like that:

But I'm pretty sure other scenes in the game depict it as looking vastly different from that

So It's pretty inconsistent with how the planet looks. However it should be noted that the planet Sonic lives on with no humans is shown in Sonic 4 episode Metal that I used in my initial post that shows planet looking normal (With landmasses and what not visible)

 

[BlastX]

I don't have much to say even if I want this to go through but...I wouldn't put much stock into the Advance 3 feat since it's an outlier for Eggman.

 

[Oleggator]

Going by the Two Worlds idea, the Sonic Advance + Battle Series would likely be on Human Earth due to all the call backs to SA2 and Humans like Maria and Gearld in Battle and Having Central City which appears in Shadow

plus the existence of robots guards (which are looks like gamma but I guess not gamma) and some characters that talked with main characters but without showcasing themselves tells that I guess probably it happened at earth. In Sonic Heroes for instance humans already wasn't existing in game and came back after sth and later Colors/lost world happened where humans already wasn't in modern era. Probably we can use for reference Planet on unleashed.

 

[LaserPrecision]

For Further Reference, here’s what the Prima Guide see it as

“His Alter Ego Super Sonic” Lol

Would Earth being 'hanging in the balance' refer to it being in the background? I would just conclude that it means the Earth is in danger. Which if the robot has MFTL speeds could still apply even if far away in either a distant Galaxy, another Solar System, or even by Earth's star (Which earth could feasibly still be seen at least in gameplay).

Open to any interpretation of this feat to be honest.