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Battle of the plot manipulators: Altair (Re:Creators) vs Sonic the Hedgehog (Archie Comics)

Artorimachi_Meteoraft

Artorimachi_Meteoraft

25,632
15,947
Altair is terrorizing the universe and sonic's gotta put a stop to her.

Altair's profile

Sonic's Profile:

INCONCLUSIVE: 7 VOTES

Rules:

Both are Low 2-C (Reborn Altair) and (Base Sonic)

Both have no knowledge or preptime

speed equalized

Sonic can have all of his standard equipment but NONE OF HIS OPTIONAL EQUIPMENT

Win via death or incap (if neither opponent can kill each other)

both are in-character

who wins and why.
 
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Altair plot hax only works against fictional characters, it doesnt works in the normal beings in the verse like humans and animals, Sonic is not a fictional character on his verse, so, Altair plot hax wont work
 
I see why not, when Chaos Energy can effect the Ancient Walkers. Tho, it was the potency of the attack is what harm them, not the nature of the power.
 
ElixirBlue said:
I see why not, when Chaos Energy can effect the Ancient Walkers. Tho, it was the potency of the attack is what harm them, not the nature of the power.
Click to expand...
but how does the BFR works? Because Sonic cant touch Altair on that key, I know that Chaos energy can affect AE type 1, but how does the BFR works?
 
Bernkastelll said:
Altair plot hax only works against fictional characters, it doesnt works in the normal beings in the verse like humans and animals, Sonic is not a fictional character on his verse, so, Altair plot hax wont work
Click to expand...
Hold on, since when? It's been a bit since I watched the anime, but I don't remember that being an issue. It's also not mentioned on her profile as being an issue. That would also make her plot hax worthless in literally any match.
 
ApiesDeathbyLazors said:
Hold on, since when? It's been a bit since I watched the anime, but I don't remember that being an issue. It's also not mentioned on her profile as being an issue. That would also make her plot hax worthless in literally any match.
Click to expand...
So, tell me, which character her plot hax affected from the verse that isnt a fictional being like Selesia or Meteora?
 
ApiesDeathbyLazors said:
That's not how this works. You need to provide proof that her ability is limited in this very particular way.
Click to expand...
Because she literally NEVER affected a human with it, she only could affect beings like Selesia because Selesia is literally a novel character, so, Altair could bring her to the Human World
 
ApiesDeathbyLazors said:
Altair not using her abilities on non-threats isn't proof she can't.
Click to expand...
The justificative for her plot hax is a proof of it.

''Plot Manipulation (Capable of breaking free of a plot, revising aspects of a plot, or even erasing a plot element outright)''

She could break her own narrative and can affect others narratives, like Meteora and Selesia ones, Altair has the power to directly affect their histories.
 
Bernkastelll said:
but how does the BFR works? Because Sonic cant touch Altair on that key, I know that Chaos energy can affect AE type 1, but how does the BFR works?
Click to expand...
Sonic using a Power Ring and wishes her away.

image0.jpg

image0.jpg
 
Bernkastelll said:
The justificative for her plot hax is a proof of it.

''Plot Manipulation (Capable of breaking free of a plot, revising aspects of a plot, or even erasing a plot element outright)''

She could break her own narrative and can affect others narratives, like Meteora and Selesia ones, Altair has the power to directly affect their histories.
Click to expand...
That's still not a reason to assume she can't use her Plot hax against "real" characters.
 
that’s like saying i have plot hax cuz the characters i draw i can manipulate there plot, that’s some fodder as hax
 
sanicspood said:
that’s like saying i have plot hax cuz the characters i draw i can manipulate there plot, that’s some fodder as hax
Click to expand...
Altair case is kinda similar, Altair can control the fictional verses in her verse, and she could make the 2-D characters in the verse become 3-D, she made the novels characters become in the same level of existance as the humans, but she still only can affect the novel characters with her ''''plot hax'''
 
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  1. First of all, there are no Fictional Characters in the verse. To the people of the Real World they might be considered Fictional but not in the sense that we understand a fictional character to be aka 2D. These fictional characters like Selesia, Meteora, Yuya, etc. are outright stated to come from "Outside the World" and the next few episodes of the series were entirely spent on Meteora explaining and info-dumping on how the worlds are formed from the manifestations of possibilities and how they exist independently of the real world without any causal relation as well as connection to the timeline of the Real World. There is also the guidebook specifically stating twice how Selesia's World is "Another World" instead of calling it some fictional universe or story world. There is also the fact that both Sota and Nakanogane, humans from the Real World, could easily exist in those Universes. Tl;dr, those are not fictional verses or 2D characters but rather Alternate Universes existing outside/parallel to the real world.
  2. But let's say for argument's sake that they are indeed fictional characters coming from fictional verses just to give you the benefit of the doubt. The very first episode had Altair teleporting Sota back and forth between the Real World and the world of Selesia until both he and Selesia were transported back to the Real World. Even in Episode 5, she does the same when she warped Nakanogane and his house so that they can exist in Kanoya's story. So yeah her hax affected them and even going by your headcanon logic, Altair can make the existence of these 3D humans into fictional or 2D. And just to show how the argument of "she never affected a Real Human" is moot, you have Magane who has three onscreen feats of affecting humans including the famous Bookstore scene where she made the guy under her spell deny her statement (highlighted by the white aura engulfing those two) thereby allowing her to summon a Lovecraftian Horror from the Cthulu Mythos book. This is not even taking into account the Magane Spinoff canon manga where she outright affects humans and even ghosts in the Real World. So as you can see, even a random occult "fictional character" could affect Real Humans with her Magic/Causality Hax in the Real World.
  3. Now you might argue that her Teleportation hax is not the same as her plot hax. Anyone who has watched the series knows that her entire hax arsenal aka her Holopiscon is plot hax itself. The way it is written in the profile might seem misleading but in actuality, she simply views everything as part of the Plot and hence the whole "Capable of breaking free of a plot, revising aspects of a plot, or even erasing a plot element outright". It is not a separate ability but rather the only ability she has with Versatile applications such as the different movements of Holopiscon. You might even argue as to how she never plot-haxxed anyone in the series. Lol, why would she need to? Her goal from the very beginning was to destroy the whole world along with all the storyworlds, instead of targeting people or any specific individual. Anyone who has seen the series knows that.
So yeah the bottomline is, people should not argue about characters or verses that they have no knowledge about. Otherwise, it perpetuates misinformation or false ideas (Such as the infamous Elder God Demonbane). Edit: This may sound rude but it is what it is. People need to research more on said verses and characters instead of arguing things that are not even shown in a series.

As for this match-up, Altair's profile is heavily outdated missing stuffs while having dumb things like the 2-B Type 8 Immortality. I might do a CRT later but I'm waiting for the rest of the Light Novel and Guidebook scans for her. So as it stands, maybe Sonic can reality warp her away or something? IDK
 
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RM97 said:
  1. First of all, there are no Fictional Characters in the verse. To the people of the Real World they might be considered Fictional but not in the sense that we understand a fictional character to be aka 2D. These fictional characters like Selesia, Meteora, Yuya, etc. are outright stated to come from "Outside the World" and the next few episodes of the series were entirely spent on Meteora explaining and info-dumping on how the worlds are formed from the manifestations of possibilities and how they exist independently of the real world without any causal relation as well as connection to the timeline of the Real World. There is also the guidebook specifically stating twice how Selesia's World is "Another World" instead of calling it some fictional universe or story world. There is also the fact that both Sota and Nakanogane, humans from the Real World, could easily exist in those Universes. Tl;dr, those are not fictional verses or 2D characters but rather Alternate Universes existing outside/parallel to the real world.
  2. But let's say for argument's sake that they are indeed fictional characters coming from fictional verses just to give you the benefit of the doubt. The very first episode had Altair teleporting Sota back and forth between the Real World and the world of Selesia until both he and Selesia were transported back to the Real World. Even in Episode 5, she does the same when she warped Nakanogane and his house so that they can exist in Kanoya's story. So yeah her hax affected them and even going by your headcanon logic, Altair can make the existence of these 3D humans into fictional or 2D. And just to show how the argument of "she never affected a Real Human" is moot, you have Magane who has three onscreen feats of affecting humans including the famous Bookstore scene where she made the guy under her spell deny her statement (highlighted by the white aura engulfing those two) thereby allowing her to summon a Lovecraftian Horror from the Cthulu Mythos book. This is not even taking into account the Magane Spinoff canon manga where she outright affects humans and even ghosts in the Real World. So as you can see, even a random occult "fictional character" could affect Real Humans with her Magic/Causality Hax in the Real World.
  3. Now you might argue that her Teleportation hax is not the same as her plot hax. Anyone who has watched the series knows that her entire hax arsenal aka her Holopiscon is plot hax itself. The way it is written in the profile might seem misleading but in actuality, she simply views everything as part of the Plot and hence the whole "Capable of breaking free of a plot, revising aspects of a plot, or even erasing a plot element outright". It is not a separate ability but rather the only ability she has with Versatile applications such as the different movements of Holopiscon. You might even argue as to how she never plot-haxxed anyone in the series. Lol, why would she need to? Her goal from the very beginning was to destroy the whole world along with all the storyworlds, instead of targeting people or any specific individual. Anyone who has seen the series knows that.
So yeah the bottomline is, people should not argue about characters or verses that they have no knowledge about. Otherwise, it perpetuates misinformation or false ideas (Such as the infamous Elder God Demonbane). Edit: This may sound rude but it is what it is. People need to research more on said verses and characters instead of arguing things that are not even shown in a series.

As for this match-up, Altair's profile is heavily outdated missing stuffs while having dumb things like the 2-B Type 8 Immortality. I might do a CRT later but I'm waiting for the rest of the Light Novel and Guidebook scans for her. So as it stands, maybe Sonic can reality warp her away or something? IDK
Click to expand...

in laymans terms what does this mean?
 
So, what are currently arguments?

Sonic likely to use BFR against opponents he can’t beat with H2H and Altair doesn’t resist the FateHax
 
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