Battle of well intentioned extremists| Queen (Deltarune) vs Makima (Chainsaw Man)

[Qurbonboev]

Two powerful woman with high social standing, that aim to create utopia via manipulation of powerful, but naive characters, face each other. Utilizing vast army of minions they have, and enslaving anyone who isn't under their control yet, they will do anything possible to create their desired future.

Speed is equalized
Location is Cyber City
Makima knows about important status of Queen in this world
Makima knows about soulhax
Makima has possible contracts
Queen knows about mind control
SBA otherwise

Queen
Scales physically to 513 tonnes of TNT
LS: Class G

Makima
Scales physically to 550 tonnes of TNT, 5.5 kT with Usage:1000 years, 25.63 kT with Telekinesis
LS: Class M

Enjoy your assimilation:

There are many things in this world that would increase happiness upon removal:

Player shows them both what true Control is(incon):

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

Following to eat popcorn as makima slop happens once again

 

[AyOgUyS]

Scales physically to 550 tonnes of TNT, 5.5 kT with Usage:1000 years, 26.8 kT with Telekinesis

Not a CSM expert but wouldn't 26.8 kiloton TK just instantly crush Queen? Tho Queen does have an LS advantage but idk how AP and LS would interact? (We need some rules on that)

 

[Qurbonboev]

Not a CSM expert but wouldn't 26.8 kiloton TK just instantly crush Queen? Tho Queen does have an LS advantage but idk how AP and LS would interact? (We need some rules on that)

To use it Makima first needs to direct her fingers at Queen. And at that point it's easier for her to just mind control her.

 

[AyOgUyS]

To use it Makima first needs to direct her fingers at Queen. And at that point it's easier for her to just mind control her.

so ur saying queen either gets instantly crushed or mind controlled? noice

 

[Qurbonboev]

so ur saying queen either gets instantly crushed or mind controlled? noice

SBA otherwise

For those who aren't aware, SBA range would be 4 km. And to reach Queen, Makima would need to go through that distance, while fending off attacks from potentially all Cyber City(all of them can be taken under control remotely by Queen)

 

[AyOgUyS]

For those who aren't aware, SBA range would be 4 km. And to reach Queen, Makima would need to go through that distance, while fending off attacks from potentially all Cyber City(all of them can be taken under control remotely by Queen)

isn't makima like absurdly fast tho (plus she has insane Regen)? speed Equalization only equalizes combat speed (we should be allowed to equalize other stats Lowkey)

 

[Hiiilt]

For those who aren't aware, SBA range would be 4 km. And to reach Queen, Makima would need to go through that distance, while fending off attacks from potentially all Cyber City(all of them can be taken under control remotely by Queen)

makima can attack ppl from hundreds of kilometers with her tk

(plus she has insane Regen)?

queen can attack the soul so makima's regen & her contract prob won't matter much here

 

[Qurbonboev]

makima can attack ppl from hundreds of kilometers with her tk

Her TK has such a big range because it can send people that far via bang, not because it can target people from that distance.

isn't makima like absurdly fast tho (plus she has insane Regen)? speed Equalization only equalizes combat speed (we should be allowed to equalize other stats Lowkey)

Makima is absurdly fast for perception of normal ppl. For perception of someone with equal speed, she would have same speed, as normal running humans do have for our perception.
And besides, reaching Queen Palace is half of the problem. She still would need to find her somewhere in the giant building, full of enemies that fire deadly to her danmaku

 

[AyOgUyS]

And besides, reaching Queen Palace is half of the problem. She still would need to find her somewhere in the giant building, full of enemies that fire deadly to her danmaku

well makima has millions of attempts and I'm sure she's gonna be easily 1 tapping most of the fodders

 

[AyOgUyS]

queen can attack the soul so makima's regen & her contract prob won't matter much here

wouldn't the soul damage just be transferred to a Japanese citizen like any other wound?

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

wouldn't the soul damage just be transferred to a Japanese citizen like any other wound?

Makima's damage transfer hasn't been shown to do that or anything with the soul so it's an assumption to say she can

 

[Qurbonboev]

well makima has millions of attempts and I'm sure she's gonna be easily 1 tapping most of the fodders

wouldn't the soul damage just be transferred to a Japanese citizen like any other wound?

1. How tf do you transfer soul damage into accidents and illness for Japanese citizen?
2. Nobody in the CSM can even produce soul damage. Why would contract be suddenly able to redirect specific type of metaphysical damage that nobody in the verse have?
3. As it currently stands, it's accepted that Makima contract wouldn't be able to redirect soul damage. Verse supporters can make CRT and change this, but it's unlikely to occur due to above-mentioned reasons.
Most fodders at most are 3-4x times weaker than Makima, and comparable or stronger than most minions. And most importantly, DR enemies scale to the Qieen and Makima in speed. Meanwhile besides few characters, Makima minions are dozens of times slower than Makima herself, so most of them are getting blitzed by danmaku

 

[Hiiilt]

wouldn't the soul damage just be transferred to a Japanese citizen like any other wound?

not rll, makima's contract has never dealt with soul hax before (nor is there anyone from the csm verse with an ability like that) so it's assumed she can't

Her TK has such a big range because it can send people that far via bang, not because it can target people from that distance.

she sent pochita to space by continuously shooting him tho

And besides, reaching Queen Palace is half of the problem. She still would need to find her somewhere in the giant building, full of enemies that fire deadly to her danmaku

she should be able to find queen due to her enhanced senses (she could also just use the hybrids to destroy the building or do this if that doesn't work) but the danmaku is going to be a problem for her since that will make it difficult for her to get close

btw, does mkm have her possible contracts?

 

[Qurbonboev]

she sent pochita to space by continuously shooting him tho

We can't see bow far in the air Pochita was when he was pounded by Bang. And I assume she still would need clear sight on the target before using it.

she should be able to find queen due to her enhanced senses (she could also just use the hybrids to destroy the building or do this if that doesn't work) but the danmaku is going to be a problem for her since that will make it difficult for her to get close

Cyber City is big place. Queen knowing that Makima can mind manip anyone and seeing her having wide array of dangerous minions would realise that she needs to avoid Makima as much as possible, and change her location quickly.
And usage of minions would be kinda difficult, when:
1. DR fodders can easily blitz and kill most of them. And since there are many of them and they have busted range(hundred of meters), it would make life for minions hellish
2. Queen can get Makima minions under her control easily(due to speed difference), via her wires. Wires have both mind manip + body puppetry versus Makima having only mind manip, so even if they lose battle for minds to Makima Conquest, body of minions would be under their control.

btw, does mkm have her possible contracts?

Currently no(since it's default condition), but I can change it. What are requirements for Eternity Devil to work?

 

[Hiiilt]

We can't see bow far in the air Pochita was when he was pounded by Bang. And I assume she still would need clear sight on the target before using it.

And usage of minions would be kinda difficult, when:
1. DR fodders can easily blitz and kill most of them. And since there are many of them and they have busted range(hundred of meters), it would make life for minions hellish

true but barem's fire & quanxi's arrows should also be able to take a lot of them out

2. Queen can get Makima minions under her control easily(due to speed difference), via her wires. Wires have both mind manip + body puppetry versus Makima having only mind manip, so even if they lose battle for minds to Makima Conquest, body of minions would be under their control.

does removing the wires release them from queen's control? bc mkm can always just summon them back to her or use her other minions to free them

Currently no(since it's default condition), but I can change it. What are requirements for Eternity Devil to work?

trapping the opponent inside a building that the eternity devil has turned into its stomach

 

[Qurbonboev]

does removing the wires release them from queen's control? bc mkm can always just summon them back to her or use her other minions to free them

Removing the wires would result in the explosion, which should take anyone close enough via heat alone

true but barem's fire & quanxi's arrows should also be able to take a lot of them

They are fighting in the big city, full of darkners. Trying to win via killing darkners wouldn't work. Barem fire lack both AP-wise(only 100 tonnes, lesser than even weaker fodders) and temperature-wise(Darkners can resist fire from Guei, and plasma attack from Mauswheel). Quanxi is stronger, but even she would die in 3-4 hits from soulhax(btw, soul damage would fully bypass demons physical regeneration)

trapping the opponent inside a building that the eternity devil has turned into its stomach

I mean, what are exact requirements to trap someone inside?

 

[AyOgUyS]

Makima's damage transfer hasn't been shown to do that or anything with the soul so it's an assumption to say she can

hm you do have a point

NLF and stuff

 

[AyOgUyS]

1. How tf do you transfer soul damage into accidents and illness for Japanese citizen?
2. Nobody in the CSM can even produce soul damage. Why would contract be suddenly able to redirect specific type of metaphysical damage that nobody in the verse have?

Well I was just wondering cuz we're giving makima a SOUL like in deltarune right? I was wondering if that would translate to physical damage in CSM

 

[AyOgUyS]

she sent pochita to space by continuously shooting him tho

makima just sends everyone to space :3

 

[AyOgUyS]

ngl makima can just send out her minions as distractions and then sneak her way to queen and HAX diff

 

[Hiiilt]

Removing the wires would result in the explosion, which should take anyone close enough via heat alone

ig they're as good as dead once they're caught then

They are fighting in the big city, full of darkners. Trying to win via killing darkners wouldn't work. Barem fire lack both AP-wise(only 100 tonnes, lesser than even weaker fodders) and temperature-wise(Darkners can resist fire from Guei, and plasma attack from Mauswheel).

i see, i assumed that barem scaled to the same value as mkm since they're both 8-A

ig quanxi is the only hybrid who's gonna be able to help

Quanxi is stronger, but even she would die in 3-4 hits from soulhax(btw, soul damage would fully bypass demons physical regeneration)

she should be able to avoid them for a while with her acrobatics

I mean, what are exact requirements to trap someone inside?

just entering inside the building the eternity devil is in

 

[Qurbonboev]

ngl makima can just send out her minions as distractions and then sneak her way to queen and HAX diff

"Distraction"
Bruh, outside of Barem, Hybrid Quanxi and zombies everyone is at least x80 times slower than Queen and fodders. They might as well be considered immobile for this scenario. How good of distractions do you think snails are for normal humans?

she should be able to avoid them for a while with her acrobatics

She can do it, but for how long she can survive under danmaku. (Imagine this, but without healing and with only 90 hp)

just entering inside the building the eternity devil is in

How fast and easy eternity can change location?

 

[AyOgUyS]

"Distraction"
Bruh, outside of Barem, Hybrid Quanxi and zombies everyone is at least x80 times slower than Queen and fodders. They might as well be considered immobile for this scenario. How good of distractions do you think snails are for normal humans?

snails are actually quite good at distracting people

She can do it, but for how long she can survive under danmaku. (Imagine this, but without healing and with only 90 hp)

she'd simply use a fodder minion as a meat shield allowing her to HAX diff

 

[Nonynho]

Battle of Well-Intentioned extremists

Makima (Chainsaw Man)​

So far, leaning towards Makima (who is not well-intentioned AT ALL, mind you), but i'll keep reading this before voting

 

[Hiiilt]

How fast and easy eternity can change location?

he has never done that b4 so idt he can (his heart is also his weak point so if he tried to move he'd probably get one shot)

the only one of her possible contracts that would rll help here is santa (and her dolls) since they can actually keep up with makima's speed

 

[Qurbonboev]

snails are actually quite good at distracting people

Not when you have dogs ready to kill them all with ease

she'd simply use a fodder minion as a meat shield allowing her to HAX diff

Queen can summon Werewires on top or very close to her, bullets from stronger enemies would just tear minions apart, or go straight through them(like lasers would), and Queen can just get minions that are used for shield under her control via wires(and if Makima tries to remove them, it would result in the explosion, which does have soul damage, everything in this cursed place have it).

So far, leaning towards Makima (who is not well-intentioned AT ALL, mind you), but i'll keep reading this before voting

For the record:
"A villain or a very unscrupulous hero who has an overall goal which the other heroes can appreciate in principle, but whose methods of pursuing said goal (such as mass murder) are problematic; despite any sympathy they may have with their cause, the heroes have no choice but to stop them"
Idk, world without war or hunger seems pretty well-intentioned to me. It's everything else besides her intentions that is bad.

the only one of her possible contracts that would rll help here is santa (and her dolls) since they can actually keep up with makima's speed

Giving Makima every possible contract. Otherwise she would be fighting whole city with one and half fighter.

 

[Nonynho]

:

Oh, so it's a trope
Didn't know about it, real cool. I may just have cooked the match

 

[Arkenis]

26.8 kT with Telekinesis

Is that downplay in another CSM match oh hell naw.


Why doesn't Makima just mind control here? They're relative physically but Makima has a massive army and greater hax. I'm not seeing why Makima wouldn't think "You, you're mine now"

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

Is that downplay in another CSM match oh hell naw.


Why doesn't Makima just mind control here? They're relative physically but Makima has a massive army and greater hax. I'm not seeing why Makima wouldn't think "You, you're mine now"

Cuz of prior knowledge that Queen and all her minons have soul damge and can genuinely end her

 

[Arkenis]

I don't see how that alone would make Makima view her as equal or superior. That'll just make her want to control them if anything.

 

[Qurbonboev]

Is that downplay in another CSM match oh hell naw.


Why doesn't Makima just mind control here? They're relative physically but Makima has a massive army and greater hax. I'm not seeing why Makima wouldn't think "You, you're mine now"

"Downplay"
Literally using value that profile uses
"Upscales from 25.63 Kilotons of TNT, possibly 128.18 Kilotons of TNT"
(Should have been 25.63 instead of 26.8, but it's obviously minor mistake).

If she can mind control peeps not on her sight, I will change conditions. If not,she first need to locate and face her, which is quite a challenge

 

[ShionAH]

I sleep with the winner

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

I sleep with the winner

 

[Arkenis]

"Downplay"
Literally using value that profile uses
"Upscales from 25.63 Kilotons of TNT, possibly 128.18 Kilotons of TNT"
(Should have been 25.63 instead of 26.8, but it's obviously minor mistake).

If she can mind control peeps not on her sight, I will change conditions. If not,she first need to locate and face her, which is quite a challenge

I mean you used the lower value is all I'm saying lmao.

If she can mind control peeps not on her sight, I will change conditions. If not,she first need to locate and face her, which is quite a challenge

Well the queen will be in her sight no? Makima can sense and see people from hundreds of km, I don't think it matters how you set this up.

 

[Qurbonboev]

I mean you used the lower value is all I'm saying lmao.

Is that downplay in another CSM match oh hell

You are being too expressive at me just for using standard value given for the move(which we how do it by default), instead of higher "possible" rating. No Deltarune supporter will cry downplay, if we someone made matches, using 7-B for high tiers(which is lower value) instead of 4-A(which they have as possible), and most verses are similar.
Regardless exact value for Bang chosen doesn't matter for the match.

Makima wouldn't be able to see Queen if she inside building or surrounded by other Darkners. But if sensing her enough for Conquest to work, I will change conditions

 

[Arkenis]

You are being too expressive at me just for using standard value given for the move(which we how do it by default), instead of higher "possible" rating. No Deltarune supporter will cry downplay, if we someone made matches, using 7-B for high tiers(which is lower value) instead of 4-A(which they have as possible), and most verses are similar.

I will cry for you <3

Makima wouldn't be able to see Queen if she inside building or surrounded by other Darkners. But if sensing her enough for Conquest to work, I will change conditions

Not enough to work, just that she'll know where she is and if she decides to do it, she may just do it.

 

[Qurbonboev]

Not enough to work, just that she'll know where she is and if she decides to do it, she may just do it.

Changing condition then so Queen won't get mind controlled that easily. What I should give Makima for fairness? She already has all possible contracts

 

[Arkenis]

What I should give Makima for fairness? She already has all possible contracts

Not sure, her knowing about soul hax is enough I think

 

[Qurbonboev]

Not sure, her knowing about soul hax is enough I think

Changed conditions.
So what Makima gonna do when surrounded by army of darkners, that blitz most of her minions, and can't be mind controlled by her?