Bill Cipher CRT Part 2

[VIZION99]

Base key
Corruption type 2 (He can cause a glitch effect that glitches his body and his surroundings. He also caused someone to glitch through the ceiling and turning someone's head into a CGI watermelon)
Text Manipulation should no longer be combined with Bill's Corruption since he would have 2 types.
Supernatural Willpower: Bill has traveled through the multiverse. Has spend trillions of years inside of the nightmare dimension despite the nightmare dimension's ability to cause mental deterioration. Has been waiting an eternity to meet the reader. He is perfectly fine having his body splitting apart and can shrug off removing his own skin. Bill says he has all the time in the world, Bill also refuses to change when in the Theraprism, claiming that he learned nothing and implies he never gives up, not caring he gets to return with a new life if he chooses to change, making it clear he would never give up)
Temperature Manipulation and Deconstruction (Bill showed everyone the third dimension which caused his home dimension to be burned out of existence)
Justification for Dimensional Travel (He can travel though the multiverse)
Upgrade for Text Manipulation (Can cover text with glitches)
Weirdmageddon key
Enhanced Empowerment should be changed to Accelerated Development (Passive; Abilities: His powers grow stronger every minute)

 

[Re5yh]

Looks fine, Agree

 

[Ultimate-Rex1]

Information Manipulation (type 1Is able to hide information)

This isn't information type 1:

1. Knowledge: These characters can manipulate information as the medium of knowledge as opposed to just manipulating what a specific person knows, which would be considered Mind Manipulation. Characters with this ability can, for example, destroy information on a subject and by that make it inherently unknowable. Other examples of uses would be to prevent information from leaving an area, making it so that those outside can't gain knowledge of what is happening inside, or altering information to change what people know about the subject into something else.

At best it would be Text Manipulation, and as it was rejected, you need more statements to make CRT for it again.

 

[VIZION99]

This isn't information type 1:

At best it would be Text Manipulation, and as it was rejected, you need more statements to make CRT for it again.

So it seems like a upgrade for text manipulation fits better.

 

[Ultimate-Rex1]

So it seems like a upgrade for text manipulation fits better.

It seems like Bill has high or mid degree of Text Manipulation, so it don't think it needs more upgrade?

 

[VIZION99]

It seems like Bill has high or mid degree of Text Manipulation, so it don't think it needs more upgrade?

It does since the upgrade shows he can cover up text.

 

[StrymULTRA]

I'll get here later.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Corruption type 2 (He can cause a glitch effect that glitches his body and his surroundings. He also caused someone to glitch through the ceiling and turning someone's head into a CGI watermelon)

None of this is corruption, but more like a visual effect that Bill can use. In fact the definition of corruption is this:

Corruption is the ability to "infect" someone or something with one's power, making said person or thing into a different being or state of being than it was before. This ability can be similar to Mind Manipulation (and potentially some of its facets) or Possession, in that the opponent becomes what you want them to be, but normally, once infected, the "corruptor" doesn't have to do anything for the "corruptee" to become corrupted.

Bill isn't infecting anything, just glitching his own body, and the "surroundings" part looks also more a visual effect of his death than anything literal. Plus the CGI thing is already part of his Transmutation.

Supernatural Willpower: Bill has spend trillions of years inside of the nightmare dimension despite the nightmare dimension's ability to cause mental deterioration. Has been waiting an eternity to meet the reader. Bill says he has all the time in the world, Bill also refuses to change when in the Theraprism, claiming that he learned nothing and implies he never gives up, not caring he gets to return with a new life if he chooses to change)

In one of the scans he's clearly being affected by it, and all I see is him throwing around antagonistic jabs. So no to that either.

Existence Erasure (Bill showed everyone the third dimension which caused his home dimension to be burned out of existence)

In the same page it literally shows Bill holding the remaining atoms of that dimension, it cannot be EE as that implies the complete physical destruction with nothing left at all.

Upgrade for Text Manipulation (Can cover text with glitches)

Scan is dead.

Enhanced Empowerment should be changed to Accelerated Development (Passive; Physical Stats: His powers grow stronger every minute)

The definition of AD is to grow faster than the other characters can. Bill here is only getting powered by the Weirdmageddon, than him having a better physical development than someone.

Plus you're downplaying his boost as Ford says "powers" with a plural, meaning that also his abilities get stronger, as shown by him growing a lot more powers thanks to it, other than his already existing ones growing better (like his Mind hax or his Size Manipulation).

Note 2: The CRT also rejected Information Manipulation type 1 based on the assumption it's just Bill suppressing trauma but since Bill has shown the ability to cause glitches, he is using the glitches to hide information of his past.

The Book of Bill is canonically a book that is actually read though. Bill isn't really manipulating information, he's just messing up with the text, which is Text Manipulation.

However, in spite of all this, I think there is a better evidence for Bill having EE, just not what's in OP.

Here there is this thing that erased with a beam that giant ear, and given that Bill is the source of all the Weirdness happening in the Weirdmageddon (as his death has reverted it), I think that a "likely/possibly" for him having EE off scaling from these no-name creatures should be a thing imo.

 

[VIZION99]

None of this is corruption, but more like a visual effect that Bill can use. In fact the definition of corruption is this:

Corruption is the ability to "infect" someone or something with one's power, making said person or thing into a different being or state of being than it was before. This ability can be similar to Mind Manipulation (and potentially some of its facets) or Possession, in that the opponent becomes what you want them to be, but normally, once infected, the "corruptor" doesn't have to do anything for the "corruptee" to become corrupted.

Bill isn't infecting anything, just glitching his own body, and the "surroundings" part looks also more a visual effect of his death than anything literal. Plus the CGI thing is already part of his Transmutation.

Monika gets corruption type 2 for causing glitches so Bill should have it too/

In one of the scans he's clearly being affected by it, and all I see is him throwing around antagonistic jabs. So no to that either.

He spend trillions of years in the nightmare realm, keeping his mental state intact.

In the same page it literally shows Bill holding the remaining atoms of that dimension, it cannot be EE as that implies the complete physical destruction with nothing left at all.

Would Deconstruction be better?

Scan is dead.

The definition of AD is to grow faster than the other characters can. Bill here is only getting powered by the Weirdmageddon, than him having a better physical development than someone.

I fixed it

The definition of AD is to grow faster than the other characters can. Bill here is only getting powered by the Weirdmageddon, than him having a better physical development than someone.

Accelerated Development also involves increasing a characters abilities. Not just limited to physical states.

However, in spite of all this, I think there is a better evidence for Bill having EE, just not what's in OP.

Here there is this thing that erased with a beam that giant ear, and given that Bill is the source of all the Weirdness happening in the Weirdmageddon (as his death has reverted it), I think that a "likely/possibly" for him having EE off scaling from these no-name creatures should be a thing imo.

Interesting

 

[StrymULTRA]

Monika gets corruption type 2 for causing glitches so Bill should have it too/

Yeah, to stuff that not only isn't just herself, but also isn't just a visual effect in context lol.

He spend trillions of years in the nightmare realm, keeping his mental state intact.

SW is only for characters who still manage to go on despite being visibly affected. Bill's case is resistance instead.

Would Deconstruction be better?

No, it happened off-screen and we cannot attribute it to any unseen ability.

Accelerated Development also involves increasing a characters abilities. Not just limited to physical states.

Literally all the users listed here become also stronger in abilities, Hulk being an example. So I dunno.

 

[VIZION99]

Yeah, to stuff that not only isn't just herself, but also isn't just a visual effect in context lol.

It's not a visual effect. This glitch also made someone glitch through the floor too.

SW is only for characters who still manage to go on despite being visibly affected. Bill's case is resistance instead.

Characters can also get supernatural willpower by keeping their mental state intact from things that made others insane. Here is a example

No, it happened off-screen and we cannot attribute it to any unseen ability.

He clearly stated it burned out of existence, that would be temperature manipulation

Literally all the users listed here become also stronger in abilities, Hulk being an example. So I dunno.

Hulk is a different case, it's is rage that makes him stronger, for Bill, he gets stronger passively from each minute.

 

[Ultimate-Rex1]

He clearly stated it burned out of existence, that would be temperature manipulation

This is Fire Manipulation

 

[StrymULTRA]

It's not a visual effect. This glitch also made someone glitch through the floor too.

Eh, fair enough.

Characters can also get supernatural willpower by keeping their mental state intact from things that made others insane. Here is a example

...the second clip shows him being clearly affected by it though. Which is the basis of SW.

He clearly stated it burned out of existence, that would be temperature manipulation

What happened to EE now lol?

Hulk is a different case, it's is rage that makes him stronger, for Bill, he gets stronger passively from each minute.

Empowerment is the ability to get stronger from factors that aren't controlled from the user, though. Which Bill fits.

 

[VIZION99]

...the second clip shows him being clearly affected by it though. Which is the basis of SW.

Ok, a better example is Springtrap whose mental state is being unaffected by being trapped in a room for 30 years.

What happened to EE now lol?

You said it yourself, it is not EE anymore since a trace of atom is left behind.

Empowerment is the ability to get stronger from factors that aren't controlled from the user, though. Which Bill fits.

The same can be said for Accelerated Development which is not controlled by the user as well.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Ok, a better example is Springtrap whose mental state is being unaffected by being trapped in a room for 30 years.

Yeah but he doesn't have resistance to Pain Manipulation, meaning that he did indeed suffer from that.

The same can be said for Accelerated Development which is not controlled by the user as well.

But Bill is never increasing his stats better than someone else in his verse. He just does by an external factor.

 

[VIZION99]

Yeah but he doesn't have resistance to Pain Manipulation, meaning that he did indeed suffer from that.

A character can have both resistance to pain and having supernatural willpower.

But Bill is never increasing his stats better than someone else in his verse. He just does by an external factor.

Weirdmageddon is treated more of a key for Bill rather than a separate factor.

 

[VIZION99]

Yeah but he doesn't have resistance to Pain Manipulation, meaning that he did indeed suffer from that.

In fact, resistance to pain is considered a ability for supernatural willpower.

 

[StrymULTRA]

A character can have both resistance to pain and having supernatural willpower.

Ok bro, prove me Bill was affected from the NR and then eventually overcame it. That's the basis for SW.

Weirdmageddon is treated more of a key for Bill rather than a separate factor.

This doesn't really matter though... Bill isn't developing faster than other character as in better stats increases in a RPG.

In fact, resistance to pain is considered a ability for supernatural willpower.

That's blatantly wrong as pain resistance is being immune to pain for other reasons like biology lol.

 

[VIZION99]

Ok bro, prove me Bill was affected from the NR and then eventually overcame it. That's the basis for SW.

That's blatantly wrong as pain resistance is being immune to pain for other reasons like biology lol.

Supernatural Willpower

Supernatural Willpower is the ability to exceed one's own limits through sheer willpower to a degree extremely far beyond real human standards. Although some characters can be considered to have a great will to achieve their goals or give their all in a fight, characters that have a willpower on...

vsbattles.fandom.com

The page for supernatural willpower itself says that users can have resistance to pain.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Supernatural Willpower

Supernatural Willpower is the ability to exceed one's own limits through sheer willpower to a degree extremely far beyond real human standards. Although some characters can be considered to have a great will to achieve their goals or give their all in a fight, characters that have a willpower on...

vsbattles.fandom.com

The page for supernatural willpower itself says that users can have resistance to pain.

1. It says "may".
2. There's literally this: "Note: This ability should only be given to characters that have explicitly displayed far beyond human levels of mental endurance. This may have been demonstrated in the form of a highly reliable statement or a significant event. An example of the latter would be Roronoa Zoro taking in all of Monkey D. Luffy's pain at once." Bill has not that at all, he didn't struggle with that shit.

The most likely interpretation is that he is unaffected because of his nature rather than him being overwhelmed from it at 1st and then getting used to it, simply because there are no statements of that happening.

 

[VIZION99]

1. It says "may".
2. There's literally this: "Note: This ability should only be given to characters that have explicitly displayed far beyond human levels of mental endurance. This may have been demonstrated in the form of a highly reliable statement or a significant event. An example of the latter would be Roronoa Zoro taking in all of Monkey D. Luffy's pain at once." Bill has not that at all, he didn't struggle with that shit.

The most likely interpretation is that he is unaffected because of his nature rather than him being overwhelmed from it at 1st and then getting used to it, simply because there are no statements of that happening.

You can say the same N who is unbothered from getting tortured.

(Also, I added additional scans for Bill's supernatural willpower)

 

[StrymULTRA]

You can say the same N who is unbothered from getting tortured.

...he clearly was to some degree, what?

Plus Murder Drones is kinda wanked overall so I don't really trust that anyway.

Has been waiting an eternity to meet the reader.

Clearly hyperbolic, come on now lol.

He is perfectly fine having his body splitting apart

We don't really know if he's even feeling pain (I mean, he thinks Pain is hilarious even, so huh...)

and can shrug off removing his own skin.

Bill also says that he's made of pure energy, and we know he can regenerate from just his eye and limbs anyway, so I do not think it's a good justification.

 

[VIZION99]

Clearly hyperbolic, come on now lol.

Maybe or maybe not given Bill is also willingly tot take all time in the world to escape on. his own instead of getting a new life by accepting what he did.

We don't really know if he's even feeling pain (I mean, he thinks Pain is hilarious even, so huh...)

He can feel pain. Pain to the eye does bother him. Even if he enjoys pain, it would take immense mental endurance to endure be split apart or removing his skin.

Bill also says that he's made of pure energy, and we know he can regenerate from just his eye and limbs anyway, so I do not think it's a good justification.

Even though he is made out of pure energy, he is more than simply energy.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Maybe or maybe not given Bill is also willingly tot take all time in the world to escape on. his own instead of getting a new life by accepting what he did.

The amount of time passed is objectively not that much given that the Pine Twins were still in the Mystery Shack with Ford and Stanley when they read it too.

He can feel pain. Pain to the eye does bother him. Even if he enjoys pain, it would take immense mental endurance to endure be split apart or removing his skin.

Or it's just him being a weirdo.

Even though he is made out of pure energy, he is more than simply energy.

I mean, yeah? But the regen point is still there.

 

[VIZION99]

The amount of time passed is objectively not that much given that the Pine Twins were still in the Mystery Shack with Ford and Stanley when they read it too.

That's not the point, the point is that Bill is willingly to take all the time in the world so he could escape on his own rather than having a new life if he just accepted what he has done.

Or it's just him being a weirdo.

It can be that but that's not really a reason to disqualify him from having supernatural willpower

I mean, yeah? But the regen point is still there.

Regen has nothing to do with mental endurance.

 

[VIZION99]

Also. Ford gets supernatural willpower even though many of his supernatural willpower feats are similar to what Bill does.

 

[StrymULTRA]

That's not the point, the point is that Bill is willingly to take all the time in the world so he could escape on his own rather than having a new life if he just accepted what he has done.

That's prior to the Theraprism though.

It can be that but that's not really a reason to disqualify him from having supernatural willpower

It indeed is a reason, as it proves that endurance is not a reason.

Regen has nothing to do with mental endurance.

It does because he can just ignore having his "skin" off because of that.

Also. Ford gets supernatural willpower even though many of his supernatural willpower feats are similar to what Bill does.

Because he's a human, not some weird alien thing of a whole different nature.

 

[VIZION99]

That's prior to the Theraprism though.

No, he said it while he is still trapped in the Theraprsim.

It indeed is a reason, as it proves that endurance is not a reason.

Even if he's being weird, it would still be a mental endurance feat.

It does because he can just ignore having his "skin" off because of that.

Here's the thing, just because a character has regeneration does not mean they can always shrug off or ignore pain. Also, it still going to be very painful for Bill to do that to himself (even if he enjoys pain).

Because he's a human, not some weird alien thing of a whole different nature.

That should not be a reason to disregard Bill's supernatural willpower feats which are more impressive than Ford's feats. Especially since Bill stayed in the nightmare dimension for trillions of years while having his mental state being unaffected.

 

[StrymULTRA]

No, he said it while he is still trapped in the Theraprsim.

Ok, he's still clearly affected from that as he's starting to break.

Even if he's being weird, it would still be a mental endurance feat.

Why?

Here's the thing, just because a character has regeneration does not mean they can always shrug off or ignore pain. Also, it still going to be very painful for Bill to do that to himself (even if he enjoys pain).

Him enjoying pain would straight up invalidate it though...

That should not be a reason to disregard Bill's supernatural willpower feats which are more impressive than Ford's feats.

Why?

Especially since Bill stayed in the nightmare dimension for trillions of years while having his mental state being unaffected.

Prove me he suffered from it first then.

 

[VIZION99]

Ok, he's still clearly affected from that as he's starting to break.

It could be just him being angry that the reader rejected his deal but even if he starts to break, it clear he enduring it since he made it clear is never gives up.

Why?

Because it would require immense endurance to still do it.

Him enjoying pain would straight up invalidate it though...

No, he only SOMETIMES enjoys pain. Sometimes he does not enjoy it like when if his eye gets hit or if his body gets destroyed.

Why?

Because that's like saying Sonic and Godzilla can't be users of supernatural willpower for not being human. Also, Bill displays a personality and behavior identical to a human.

Prove me he suffered from it first then.

Being in the nightmare realm for trillions of years and keeping mental state intact is clearly beyond real human standards. Supernatural Willpower is not always about the user feeling suffering, it about them have willpower that would not be normally possible for humans.

 

[StrymULTRA]

It could be just him being angry that the reader rejected his deal but even if he starts to break, it clear he enduring it since he made it clear is never gives up.

That's just an antagonistic jab (2).

Because it would require immense endurance to still do it.

I already addressed that above, don't loop lol.

No, he only SOMETIMES enjoys pain. Sometimes he does not enjoy it like when if his eye gets hit or if his body gets destroyed.

The eye is his weak point, and the second one is literally him dying. Come on lol.

Because that's like saying Sonic and Godzilla can't be users of supernatural willpower for not being human.

That's false equivalence because their behavior and mentality is indeed human-like, Bill is objectively just not.

Being in the nightmare realm for trillion of years and keeping mental state intact is clearly beyond real human standards.

Because of his nature, again.

Supernatural Willpower is not always about the user feeling suffering, it about them have willpower that would not be normally possible for humans.

But nothing says Bill is doing that through willpower specifically.

Idk man you're just repeating yourself atp and I don't feel like keeping it if you're just gonna reset the convo.

 

[VIZION99]

That's just an antagonistic jab (2).

But it's more than that, it shows he won't give up too.

I already addressed that above, don't loop lol.

Ok, the reason why it's a mental endurance because no regular human would do that to themselves. Before you say Bill's regeneration would allow him to ignore the pain, that's not true. Monika has highly godly regeneration yet gets bothered by the game closing, shown the regeneration does not allow the user to ignore pain.

The eye is his weak point, and the second one is literally him dying. Come on lol.

The point is that he doesn't fully enjoy pain otherwise he would also be unbothered his eye getting hurt or being destroyed.

That's false equivalence because their behavior and mentality is indeed human-like, Bill is objectively just not.

Godzillia's mentality is not very human like either but he still a supernatural willpower user.

Because of his nature, again.

Don't see how that's a good reason why his nature prevents him supernatural willpower user. Especially since I got dozens of scans that show he does.

But nothing says Bill is doing that through willpower specifically.

If you look at all the scans for Bill's supernatural willpower, they are clearly beyond normal willpower.

Idk man you're just repeating yourself atp and I don't feel like keeping it if you're just gonna reset the convo.

If you don't agree with me, that is fine, we may have different opinions.

 

[StrymULTRA]

But it's more than that, it shows he won't give up too.

Yeah, while being clearly distressed and he's clearly getting angered from it lol.

Ok, the reason why it's a mental endurance because no regular human would do that to themselves. Before you say Bill's regeneration would allow him to ignore the pain, that's not true. Monika has highly godly regeneration yet gets bothered by the game closing, shown the regeneration does not allow the user to ignore pain.

...Monika's HGR isn't even combat applicable as it's treated as overtime. Did you even read that profile?

Godzillia's mentality is not very human like either but he still a supernatural willpower user.

Cool, don't care.

Don't see how that's a good reason why his nature prevents him supernatural willpower user. Especially since I got dozens of scans that show he does.

Which were all disproven? Plus his nature indeed disproves it as it implies that the reason is unrelated to it. Do we give to anyone with resistance to Electricity SW only because the shock does not bother them?

 

[Accelerated_Evolution]

So far, everything Strym pointed out as of now seems about right

 

[VIZION99]

Yeah, while being clearly distressed and he's clearly getting angered from it lol.

You said it yourself, you believe that characters that endure suffering is the basis for supernatural willpower, if we use that logic, wouldn't that make Bill Cipher a user since he is suffering from being in the Theraprsim but refuses to give up.

...Monika's HGR isn't even combat applicable as it's treated as overtime. Did you even read that profile?

The point is that regeneration and resistance to pain are separate. Trying to say Bill only ignores pain because of regeneration is not a good reason to invalid Bill from having supernatural willpower.

Cool, don't care.

No need to be aggressive.

Which were all disproven? Plus his nature indeed disproves it as it implies that the reason is unrelated to it. Do we give to anyone with resistance to Electricity SW only because the shock does not bother them?

Here is the thing. Resisting electricity is only one feat so that alone won't count as supernatural willpower. Bill has dozens of supernatural willpower feats. Going through the multiverse, spending trillions of years in the nightmare dimension, can shrug off injures like be split apart, removing his skin, would rather spend all the time in the world escape the Theraprsim his own way despite suffering in there and decided to avoid the easy way to leave.

Also, Ford has supernatural willpower even though his feats of willpower are not as impressive as Bill's

 

[Wonder_of_Fantasy]

Strym's interpretation makes more sense to me.

It’s best to avoid whataboutisms, as they tend to be weak arguments, even as rebuttals because another profile treats X the same way. I also have doubts regarding Supernatural Willpower; there’s nothing that directly shows Bill having Supernatural Willpower on top of being inherently insane (regardless of whatever he is). That feels like a stretch. Also, being stubborn is not Supernatural Willpower in Bill's case, I don't think.

Regarding the scans from the Nightmare Dimension, Resistance to Madness Manipulation might be a more appropriate classification. I'm not a knowledgable supporter of the Gravity Falls verse, but it does seem like a credible feat (others are feel free to correct me on this).

Beyond that, I disagree with this for now going off of Strym's rebuttals.

 

[Ultimate-Rex1]

I think Bill can has Supernatural Willpower, as through his feelings and anger, his strength increased and he was able to free himself from Unicorn barrier.

 

[VIZION99]

Styrm's interpretation makes more sense to me.

It’s best to avoid whataboutisms, as they tend to be weak arguments, even as rebuttals because another profile treats X the same way. I also have doubts regarding Supernatural Willpower; there’s nothing that directly shows Bill having Supernatural Willpower on top of being inherently insane (regardless of whatever he is). That feels like a stretch. Also, being stubborn is not Supernatural Willpower in Bill's case, I don't think.

Regarding the scans from the Nightmare Dimension, Resistance to Madness Manipulation might be a more appropriate classification. I'm not a knowledgable supporter of the Gravity Falls verse, but it does seem like a credible feat (others are feel free to correct me on this).

You have not mentioned the rest of Bill's supernatural willpower scans.

 

[Wonder_of_Fantasy]

You have not mentioned the rest of Bill's supernaturals willpower scans.

I am sorry you feel that way.

 

[Wonder_of_Fantasy]

through his feelings and anger, his strength increased and he was able to free himself from Unicorn barrier.

This is Rage Power.