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It seems good
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Bill Cipher: It's finally time for Tier 1
- Thread starter StrymULTRA
- Start date
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Since we discussed this further in DMs, I'll leave it at this since it'd need a site-wide revision it seems
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- Thread starter
- #83
1-B has to be due to the NR needing to be superior to the High 1-C realm as it follows branes. If you'd agree with Low 1-C, you'd have to agree with also 1-B as it follows the same logic, as already said.
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If we accept the 11D stuff as High 1-C, those dimensions are part of the multiverse, so NR should be 1-B for being a higher plane compared to the multiverse.
ReaperAndBlues
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Then I agree with 1-B then
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Aolphl
He/Him- 651
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This is just the beginning, I'm sure this will go on even longer
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- Thread starter
- #88
Dragon Ball CRTs reach 5 in less time than this.
ReaperAndBlues
He/Him- 1,304
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Truth. Even if it's a small revision, it still takes 30 million years.
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You'll try
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I know right, this CRT is slow, I thought it would already get 6-7
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@StrymULTRA
Considering the CRT itself mentions that the NR can be acessed through 5D calcs, wouldn't this count as an anti-feat for the 12D rating?
Considering the CRT itself mentions that the NR can be acessed through 5D calcs, wouldn't this count as an anti-feat for the 12D rating?
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I need to ask for minor clarification in one regard (sorry if I missed something, I just skimmed through the OP).
What's the argument for these 11 dimensions scaling to the base multiverse or otherwise being encompassed by the Nightmare Realm? Can't they be layers above it?
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From what I saw in the scan Ford asks himself why he abandoned 5D calculus learning, so I think it would need at least such level, as we don’t actually know if they limited to just that.
And at least 5D calculus is in order to only access it.
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- Thread starter
- #95
It only is required to create the portal, not that's the hard cap of the dimensionality of the place. Ford didn't put all the specifics of it, given that we're entering into pseudo-science otherwise, but yeah.
Plus I forgot to mention that if you read the page, Ford only complains about him not learning about it at the time, so that's not exactly a counter tbh.
They cannot as it's implied that the beings are part of the Multiverse due to them accessing to the Earth normally and Ford using dimensions for both Spatial dimensions and Parallel universes.
The Nightmare Realm is said from Ford himself twice to be the dimension between dimensions, and he potrayed it as a bulk as already said in OP, to excluding the 11D would be a headcanon.
An additional info is that the Time Baby said that Bill's rift would have ended the fabric of existence, Stanford saying that Bill is a threat to the wider Multiverse twice, the fact that the Weirdmageddon is literally flooding the NR in the multiverse, eventually destroying it, other than the NR is explicitly lawless, with Bill planning to free all dimensions from the laws as said in his profile, I'd say that it's good enough proof:
- Acausality (Types 1 and 4. It was revealed that after the events of Gravity Falls Bill is trapped in a cosmic punishment where he's forced to relive the events of the series again and again. Bill lived in and made Nightmare Realm his new home[4] which is not only described as a place that lacks laws[4] such as physics[4] or causality[6], but also implied to be outside time[3] due to it being a dimension between dimensions, each being a different space-time that follows its own rules[4])
- he states he will rewrite the reality from any kind of law[7] and causality system[6], which is supported by his powers being used to play ping-pong with a planet and break logic all together.[7]
- Due to the Dimensional Rift being the gap between worlds,[2] which are infinite[6] in total and Stanford saying twice that Bill is a threat to the wider multiverse,[4] it's possible that the Dimensional Rift would have also destroyed all of them, with Bill's goal being also planning to use it to make existence without restrictions, laws,[7] cause and effect,[6] making it like the Nightmare Realm, the lawless space between all the dimensions[4]
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God damn, kinda uncalled for
Ford explicitly stated these 7-11 dimensional creatures come from his travels (which in this context refers to him using the nightmare realm to travel to different universes iirc including those with dimensionality different from the regular 3 dimensions)
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- Thread starter
- #97
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I see, thanks for the answer
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Lmfao
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Strym´s answer / Farquaad´s answer:
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Bill VS Discord
“No great mind has ever existed without a touch of madness.” - Aristotle Bill Cipher, the Nightmare Realm’s Dream Demon from Gravity Fa...
g12dbfg.blogspot.com
I’m on phone so I can’t really send the argument by hand but I recall this blog had some arguments for quantitative superiority in GF for those dimensions
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Ik, I’m just that peak. If you need me to give simple but logical responses I’m your guyStrym´s answer / Farquaad´s answer:
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- Thread starter
- #103
I saw it too, yes.Bill VS Discord
“No great mind has ever existed without a touch of madness.” - Aristotle Bill Cipher, the Nightmare Realm’s Dream Demon from Gravity Fa...
I’m on phone so I can’t really send the argument by hand but I recall this blog had some arguments for quantitative superiority in GF for those dimensions
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Right.
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Tbh we should have handled this before the thread was even postedBill VS Discord
“No great mind has ever existed without a touch of madness.” - Aristotle Bill Cipher, the Nightmare Realm’s Dream Demon from Gravity Fa...
I’m on phone so I can’t really send the argument by hand but I recall this blog had some arguments for quantitative superiority in GF for those dimensions
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Reiner I know
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We should have actually waited till July ngl
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It actually does not. In M-Theory with Bulk Space it's a 4th Dimensional Space with 7-Dimensional strings that make it 11th Dimensional.
So something being bulk Space does not make every dimension higher bulk spaces. They can also be singular string dimensions. For the thread Low 1-C looks alright, 11-D doesn't have enough substa
So something being bulk Space does not make every dimension higher bulk spaces. They can also be singular string dimensions. For the thread Low 1-C looks alright, 11-D doesn't have enough substa
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What if a 2D universe is stated to have 0 width and that width does not exist to them multiple times, would that prove quantitative superiority between dimensions inverse
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- #110
Even if the 11D stuff is part of the multiverse that's encompassed from the NR, which is the Bulk?
StretchSebe
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Agree with upgrade. Good work on compiling all the evidence from the graphic novels and books.
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The same situation would apply. It would be 4D + 7D Strings encompassed in a 5D bulk.
Gilad_Hyperstar
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I agree with Tier 1, not too sure about High 1-C / 1-B but it might work as a "possibly"
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Wait why are 7D-11D dimensions that Aliens exist in are strings and not spatial ones?
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I agree with a possibly 1-B
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The 11D stuff's just never had enough evidence to actually work. I still don't really see why Bill or Ford would scale to the Nightmare Realm itself due to some of the latter's inventions affecting parts of it. As far as I can see, Ford saying that the portal shook the NR... is just hyperbole.
Yes, taking a narrator's word at face value is fine, but the journals are explicitly from Ford's perspective. Despite his intelligence, he's still only a human. He does not know how far the shaking would reach, since he is not literally omniscient. He doesn't know what's going on a hundred miles away, nor a hundred million light years, lol. That one piece of evidence isn't enough to scale the portal to the NR because he literally does not have the capability to know it affected the entire NR at once.
Then there's this piece of evidence that everyone seems to forget, that is the entire catalyst to Bill's plans:
Bill cannot stop the Nightmare Realm from self destructing. That entire plane is destined to be destroyed with or without him, and the whole reason he wants to go to other realities is to escape it. It just doesn't make any sense for Bill to scale to the NR anyways, since he explicitly cannot affect it in its entirety. He isn't really even affecting it at all, since the same page heavily implies the reason that Gravity Falls' universe is in danger is solely because of the NR's lack of physics and instability flooding our reality, rather than any AP from Bill's end.
IMO I disagree with OP, Bill should just stay where he is
Yes, taking a narrator's word at face value is fine, but the journals are explicitly from Ford's perspective. Despite his intelligence, he's still only a human. He does not know how far the shaking would reach, since he is not literally omniscient. He doesn't know what's going on a hundred miles away, nor a hundred million light years, lol. That one piece of evidence isn't enough to scale the portal to the NR because he literally does not have the capability to know it affected the entire NR at once.
Then there's this piece of evidence that everyone seems to forget, that is the entire catalyst to Bill's plans:
Bill cannot stop the Nightmare Realm from self destructing. That entire plane is destined to be destroyed with or without him, and the whole reason he wants to go to other realities is to escape it. It just doesn't make any sense for Bill to scale to the NR anyways, since he explicitly cannot affect it in its entirety. He isn't really even affecting it at all, since the same page heavily implies the reason that Gravity Falls' universe is in danger is solely because of the NR's lack of physics and instability flooding our reality, rather than any AP from Bill's end.
IMO I disagree with OP, Bill should just stay where he is
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Just to note, being unable to control Tier 1 structure does not mean character can’t affect it in other ways. There are characters that can destroy universes, but not control them, recreate them or stop their destruction.
Even if we ignore everything related to Low 1-C and higher, why 2-A should not be solidified due to the events in comics?
I’ll wait for StrymULTRA’s respond though.
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I do agree that 2-A should be solidified at this point, yes
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