BlazBlue under-leveled?

[Zeldasmash]

I don't know about you guys, but i feel like the BlazBlue verse as a whole is under-leveled.

Terumi and Hakumen are the two notable ones to me. I think Terumi is a bit faster then MHS+. Terumi managed to outsmart and speed himself into Takamagahara without teleportation. Takamagahara are completely invisible to the human eye unless you're teleported there. They also see every possible timeline possibility. The fact that Terumi managed to get into Takamagahara without teleporting is insanely fast. As for durability, the guy managed to survive an attack from the Black Beast, a being that managed to kill more then half of the worlds population and managed to cover the entire world with seithr.

Terumi's Ouroboros can attack the person's soul directly and can be used for mobility since it can bite anything (even the air) and make appear damn near instantaneously in the same spot the bite was. Terumi can also cheat death by using self-observation. Terumi also can phase in and out of reality with Ghost and it makes him intangible.

Also, we are using current Terumi, not the one that was during the Dark War, who is much stronger then how he is now. Terumi was also the original owner of the Susano'o Unit, yet he as Dark Susano'o is only 7-C, when Hakumen is at 6-C at full power?

Speaking of Hakumen, Hakumen has the ability to cut through time and has the ability to kill someone without causing a paradox. The guy can cut through timelines and observe what is happening with it's eyes (the same thing applies to Terumi when he had it). Ookami can also create miniature black holes when it cuts a projectile (though this is gameplay so i don't know if that applies). Unlimited Hakumen's counters can make the guy appear behind the opponent, slashing them, in less then a second.

The guy was able to trade blows with the Black Beast and was the one responsible for killing it.

Noel as Mu-12 can deal significant damage to Amaterasu, who is by far BlazBlue's strongest being and going by Central Fiction, Noel is basically unkillable considering that Hakumen slashed her multiple times in the Arcade story and she just stood back up like it was nothing (keep in mind Hakumen can slash through time).

Then there are being's like Rachel who at full power can give Hakumen at full power trouble, Dark War Jubei & Nine, Azrael (the guy managed to tear through reality twice with bare hands) and Hades Izanami, who literally cannot die because she is the very concept of death and smokes basically everyone that's not named Amaterasu.

I just feel like the BlazBlue verse as a whole is underleveled, especially when it comes to Terumi and Hakumen. I might be completely wrong on this, but it's just how i feel.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Iirc ThePerpetual was looking into this as well...

 

[Zeldasmash]

Also, ins't the Amaterasu planet level? since "The world is made out of her dreams"

She can see every possibility and reset time on a casual basis if she doesn't like the outcome of that possibility. This extends to every timeline in the BlazBlue series (if we take Terumi in Chrono Phantasma, this has been happening for trillions of years).

This might extend to Bloodedge Experience, which is a different universe within BlazBlue and it might also extend to Xblaze (I don't know much about XBlaze so i could be wrong here).

Takamagahara can basically do the exact same thing, though it's not as strong as Amaterasu's.

 

[Drellix]

I feel the same. Personally I think they are very much above their current showings on here. They need some upgrades.

 

[ThePerpetual]

Oh, most certainly, Drellix. I'm going to get to this as soon as I can, just need to sit down and do some research...

 

[Drellix]

See if the Astral Heats are Canon in fights. That could be a major game changer for their upgrades.

 

[Zeldasmash]

See if the Astral Heats are Canon in fights. That could be a major game changer for their upgrades.

I think they used speed calcs from the Insta-Kill moves in Guilty Gear so i think Astrals should be ok. If that were to be the case, Kokonoe would be like 5-C considering her meteor was large enough to waste the planet. Azrael might also be around this level.

 

[ThePerpetual]

I'm fairly certain there's no reason to assume they aren't canon. IIRC, the only reason Makoto's isn't counted is because it's commonly considered a gag feat...

 

[The_Everlasting]

@Perpetual/Zeldasmash/Drellix

AFAIK Nothing indicates that Astral Heats are canon, unlike, say, Insta-Kills from Guilty Gear, which have several indicators that they are canon.

 

[ThePerpetual]

Why assume they are not? Just because they're used in-game? That doesn't make any sense, we've constantly used gameplay feats in the past. There's no reason to not do so now.

 

[The_Everlasting]

Because nothing directly points towards them being canon? This is different in that we don't know if Astral Heats have actually occured, whereas with most other used gameplay feats we do. I think Alak has mentioned this in the past.

If you can provide evidence that Astral Heats are canon, feel free to use them, but I'm pretty sure there's no evidence of it (At least, I've never seen anyone present evidence).

 

[ThePerpetual]

...what? That makes literally no sense at all. That's like saying the Materia you get from the Final Fantasy 7 optional quests do nothing; nothing "points towards that being canon" to the main story. That's like saying Dark Souls 3's Nameless King doesn't exist in-canon, because he's optional. These things, like Astral Heats, exist in the background of the game regardless of whether or not you choose to interact with them. To assume otherwise is not only counter to wiki standards as we've practiced them ever since I've joined the place, but would be immensely hypocritical of me as well given this is how every other verse has been handled thus far.

We can assume they are canon: or at the very least, not expressedly non-canon: until they are proven to not be, not the other way around.

 

[The_Everlasting]

You're completely misinterpreting my post. Finishing moves in a fighting game are drastically different than optional content in a game, the former is just an attack you use that does devastating damage, while the latter are things you don't necessarily need to do to complete the game, but are still possible. Using the same logic we should upgrade all MK characters to Hypersonic+ because one of Raiden's X-Ray moves in MKX involves him knocking his opponent into the clouds and then flying there himself.

I recall Alakablamm mentioning a while ago that nothing points towards Astral Heats being canon and thus they aren't usable.

 

[ThePerpetual]

...then why aren't people in MK Hypersonic+? I fail to see anything wrong with that either, save that several people in-canon likely don't stack up to someone as high-up on the food chain as Raiden.

I'm not misinterpreting anything or anyone. There's still no logical reason to assume that "finishing moves" in fighting games are any different from any other gameplay feat, or that they "are not possible".

 

[Zeldasmash]

Using Tsubaki's Astral one too many times can net her the bad ending in Continnum Shift......so i guess there is that.

 

[Drellix]

^if this affects the story then Astrals should be made canon. And regardless, @TheEverlasting you guys should put it in either way and let people judge for themselves if they want them to be able to use astral heat or not.

 

[Brunout]

Also, it was said that the black beast tanked several nukes from all countrys at the same time without a single scratch.


Hakumen being able to kill her, wouldn't put him higher than just "possibly island"?

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

I am mixed with the Astral Heats. Most last I saw don't really have destructive feats aside from Makoto and Kokonoe.

 

[Zeldasmash]

Azrael and Bullet's Astral also have destructive feats.

If the Astral's can't be considered part of the canon moveset, why not just make a category where they do have them?

 

[Spawn888]

I might provide changes to the characters.

Blazblue's power levels are hard to measure.

 

[Zeldasmash]

I might provide changes to the characters.
Blazblue's power levels are hard to measure.

In what tier would you place some of them? Terumi in particular should be way higher.

 

[Spawn888]

In what tier would you place some of them? Terumi in particular should be way higher.

I might need to think. I gotta play the story and gameplay to make my conclusion on their tiers.

 

[Brunout]

What level of durability is this >?

 

[Promestein]

Looks like at least Island level.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

At least Small Country/At least Country level I believe

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Looks like at least Island level.

Or that, that too

 

[Spawn888]

What level of durability is this >?

Judging by the readings.

I'd say probably Country Level.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Serafall Leviathan is stated to be able to destroy Japan several times over and that's only rated as Small Country level, so tanking a blast that completely destroyed Japan without a scratch would probably be a similar rating

 

[Zeldasmash]

Island to Country level.

Some of the older BlazBlue characters would fall under this tier. Terumi would be around that tier since the guy managed to take a whole blast from the Black Beast and still live, Hakumen (or Jin) would be around that tier (or a bit higher) as well considering he managed to kill it, Ragna has the potential to be about as dangerous as the Black Beast should he ever go berserk, Nu when merged with Ragna = Black Beast, ect.

Though the Black Beast was able to cover the entire planet with seither so i'm not really sure what to think about the overall tier of it.

 

[Spawn888]

Island to Country level.
Some of the older BlazBlue characters would fall under this tier. Terumi would be around that tier since the guy managed to take a whole blast from the Black Beast and still live, Hakumen (or Jin) would be around that tier (or a bit higher) as well considering he managed to kill it, Ragna has the potential to be about as dangerous as the Black Beast should he ever go berserk, Nu when merged with Ragna = Black Beast, ect.

Though the Black Beast was able to cover the entire planet with seither so i'm not really sure what to think about the overall tier of it.

In CF, there was a quote from Nine who stated that Takemikazutchi at full power can destroy the world. I'm not sure if Blazblue characters are even close to planet level.

 

[Promestein]

The world's nuclear stockpile is island level so it'd probably be "At least Island level".

 

[Zeldasmash]

Spawn888 wrote:

Island to Country level.
Some of the older BlazBlue characters would fall under this tier. Terumi would be around that tier since the guy managed to take a whole blast from the Black Beast and still live, Hakumen (or Jin) would be around that tier (or a bit higher) as well considering he managed to kill it, Ragna has the potential to be about as dangerous as the Black Beast should he ever go berserk, Nu when merged with Ragna = Black Beast, ect.

Though the Black Beast was able to cover the entire planet with seither so i'm not really sure what to think about the overall tier of it.

In CF, there was a quote from Nine who stated that Takemikazutchi at full power can destroy the world. I'm not sure if Blazblue characters are even close to planet level.

The only way they would is if they were powerscaled to Takemikazuchi's level. Ragna managed to defeat it (though not at full power). Also, the Takemikazuchi is on the same level as the Black Beast considering it couldn't kill the Black Beast either (though i'm not sure if this was at full power).

Ghost Terumi, Dark Susano'o, Izanami, Amaterasu & Takamagahara are oddballs too.....

 

[Brunout]

In CF, there was a quote from Nine who stated that Takemikazutchi at full power can destroy the world. I'm not sure if Blazblue characters are even close to planet level.

Only close to planet level if we count Makoto astral finish as canon.

 

[Spawn888]

In CF, there was a quote from Nine who stated that Takemikazutchi at full power can destroy the world. I'm not sure if Blazblue characters are even close to planet level.

Only close to planet level if we count Makoto astral finish as canon.
If Makoto's astral was canon, she might just be Moon-Level.

 

[The_Everlasting]

Take-Mikazuchi has a Large Island level feat here and, going by his OBD profile, the Black Beast is far stronger than him (I know incredibly little about BlazBlue and thus do not know the validity of that).

So that puts Take-Mikazuchi at Large Island level and the Black Beast at "At least Large Island level", I'd assume. It also scales the "Six Heroes" (Hakumen, Jubei, Konoe A. Mercury, Trinity Glassfile, Valkenhayn R. and Hazama/Yuuki Terumi), and a few other characters I'm too lazy to search for.

 

[Brunout]

If Makoto's astral was canon, she might just be Moon-Level.

Yeah, but characters like Valkenhyan and Azrael FP are much stronger than her.

Considering that Valkenhyan is stronger than Makoto, and base Azrael stomped Valkenhyan in his arcade story...

An FP Azrael could be close to planet level(counting makoto astral finish as canon)

 

[Promestein]

We're not going to count Makoto's astral finish as canon so don't bother talking about the scaling. It's a blatant outlier, anyways.

 

[Spawn888]

If Makoto's astral was canon, she might just be Moon-Level.

Yeah, but characters like Valkenhyan and Azrael FP are much stronger than her.
Considering that Valkenhyan is stronger than Makoto, and base Azrael stomped Valkenhyan in his arcade story...

An FP Azrael could be close to planet level(counting makoto astral finish as canon)

True. I'm kinda mixed with the Astrals. Some seem legit, others I don't think should be taken literally. Although, many people on this other site I was on say the Astrals are a glimpse of a character's actual power. Ehhh, Idk.

 

[Zeldasmash]

If Makoto's astral was canon, she might just be Moon-Level.

Yeah, but characters like Valkenhyan and Azrael FP are much stronger than her.
Considering that Valkenhyan is stronger than Makoto, and base Azrael stomped Valkenhyan in his arcade story...

An FP Azrael could be close to planet level(counting makoto astral finish as canon)

Characters like Hakumen and Jubei were impressed by her spirit and Hakumen even praised her keeping up with him.

But again, if Makoto were to be Moon level, the characters would be powerscaled considering that there are clearly stronger character then her (Azrael, Terumi, Jubei, Hakumen, ect).

 

[Brunout]

We're not going to count Makoto's astral finish as canon so don't bother talking about the scaling. It's a blatant outlier, anyways.

Thats why I said IF we count as canon.

I didn't said that it is canon.