Bleach Downgrade: Meteor Calcs

[Dargoo_Faust]

One of the buildings called Silbern which resides in Wadenreich ( a place equal to Seireitei or larger but was inside the shadow of it literally). The calc actually hides the size of Seireitei via that method which is a major part of the CRT. But the author of this calc Applelord has stated it's 3.1km on reddit via his calc which is contradicted by everything.

So there isn't any reliable way to pixelscale the objects in that case? The general rule of thumb is to pixelscale before resorting to statements and then assumptions to find values.

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

@Mephistus, while your point might be right; the downplay point was uneeded, a non-argument, Appeal to motive Fallacy so you should stop it.

I'm pretty sure that was a joke.

 

[Wokistan]

From what I know, the art in this arc was super inconsistent due to things like the stress and rushing of the artist. If this inconsistency in art has been shown to result in things that make no sense narratively or contradict other things, going off statements is probably the safest choice of action.

I'm not intimately familiar with the series, so take this as you will.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

So there isn't any reliable way to pixelscale the objects in that case? The general rule of thumb is to pixelscale before resorting to statements and then assumptions to find values.

You could, but there are dozens of images of Seiretei and they all pretty much give different sizes unlike the consistent statements which remain generally around the same. So it essentially ends up as pick your favorite scan vs statements about it's size.

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

Since I'm here, I might as well say that I agree with IMade's calc. Probably best to use the statement if the art is so inconsistent.

 

[Sixo_Bullets]

I agree with IMade's calc.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

You could, but there are dozens of images of Seiretei and they all pretty much give different sizes unlike the consistent statements which remain generally around the same. So it essentially ends up as pick your favorite scan vs statements about it's size.

I guess going with the statement would work then. However, is there at least some instances where the pixelscaling matches the statements about it?

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

I guess going with the statement would work then. However, is there at least some instances where the pixelscaling matches the statements about it?

Not a single one, you can't even find a scan that has all of the named landmarks showing at once or even the mountains that exist inside of it which is ridiculous. There is a massive disconnect between the statements and pixel scaling for the Seireitei.

 

[Damage3245]

@Dargoo; all of the visuals have been significantly lower than the results of the statement calc.

Here is an example. Supposedly these gates (visible on the wall on the left and right of the panel) are supposed to be 10 days walk away from each other.

 

[Wokistan]

"10 days walk" could include breaks for resting, eating, getting lost, etc. I don't think statements like that are generally meant to be literally walking speed 10 days straight.

10 seems kinda high either way though.

 

[Damage3245]

@Wokistan; the IMade calc using statements assumes 8 hours of rest per day. (Which I guess includes sleep, resting and eating?)

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

"10 days walk" could include breaks for resting, eating, getting lost, etc. I don't think statements like that are generally meant to be literally walking speed 10 days straight.
10 seems kinda high either way though.

We did, there was another statement about it taking 3 days to walk from a gate to the closest barracks.

And from a movie Kubo was overseeing although the plot is non-canon gives a blatant size for east to west Seireitei as 200ri with it being only 1/3rd of the ground of Seiretei grounds.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Not a single one, you can't even find a scan that has all of the named landmarks showing at once or even the mountains that exist inside of it which is ridiculous. There is a massive disconnect between the statements and pixel scaling for the Seireitei.

If that's the case, why would we consider the statements to be more accurate than what is actually shown in the series?

If a building was said to be 14 stories tall by multiple people, and we later see it only has 10, we wouldn't add an imaginary 4 floors to the top for sake of calculation.

 

[AppleLord]

"10 days walk" could include breaks for resting, eating, getting lost, etc. I don't think statements like that are generally meant to be literally walking speed 10 days straight.
10 seems kinda high either way though.

That would applied to any other verse, except Bleach. This verse has characters since arc one training in long periods of times. Mostly a week and later a month without rest, or food. Their stamina is link to their spiritual energy.

 

[Wokistan]

Well the statements are also what is shown in the medium, they're every bit as part of the story as the art. With one vs one it might be a tossup, but from what it sounds like it's more akin to several people saying a building's 14 stories and the artist just doing it wrong.

Seems sorta like how in steven universe people aren't even consistent across different cuts.

 

[AppleLord]

One of the buildings called Silbern which resides in Wadenreich ( a place equal to Seireitei or larger but was inside the shadow of it literally). The calc actually hides the size of Seireitei via that method which is a major part of the CRT. But the author of this calc Applelord has stated it's 3.1km on reddit via his calc which is contradicted by everything.

So there isn't any reliable way to pixelscale the objects in that case? The general rule of thumb is to pixelscale before resorting to statements and then assumptions to find values.

There is a way of pixelscaling the meteor and the city.

I did it in my calc.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

If that's the case, why would we consider the statements to be more accurate than what is actually shown in the series?
If a building was said to be 14 stories tall by multiple people, and we later see it only has 10, we wouldn't add an imaginary 4 floors to the top for sake of calculation.

If that's the case, why would we consider the statements to be more accurate than what is actually shown in the series?

Well that's because the statements don't contradict each other ever over the years. Seiretei has been drawn as a block of land all the way to a large city. I can post some pics in a bit since they're spread across alot of chapters.

 

[AppleLord]

Like someone mentioned above, I did pixel scale Wandenreich/Seiretei base on Uryu's height and the ceiling.

Silbern Ceiling = 5px = 28.76 m

Seireitei Size = 539px = 3100.328 meters

3.1 Km Seireitei.

If we go by statements each building will be 10 km in height.

 

[Damage3245]

> If a building was said to be 14 stories tall by multiple people, and we later see it only has 10, we wouldn't add an imaginary 4 floors to the top for sake of calculation.

Huh. I hadn't thought of it like that.

And you know, I'd bet we'd find more visuals of Seireitei appearing as a large city than we would have statements of it being hundreds of kilometers across.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

There is a way of pixelscaling the meteor and the city.

I did it in my calc.

You debunked your own calc on reddit for it ever being valid when you posted it.

"This isn't the Seireitei any longer, but the Quincy City. I calc Silbern roof from Uryu and the Meteor from the roof. The Size of Seireitei is not needed for the calc.

But if you insist:

Silbern Ceiling = 5px = 28.76 m

Seireitei Size = 539px = 3100.328 meters

3.1 Km Seireitei."

Which is less then Toshiro 12km reach

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

@Dargoo The fact that it's not inconsistent with the statements, the art is just super inconsistent in general, even against other pieces of art from later on or earlier on. Meanwhile, both Seireitai and Las Noches have consistent statements about their ridiculous size, and the novels which came after the end of the manga are also consistent about the ridiculous size.

As for the assumption of rest, we already assumed 8 hours of rest each day, which would still be a low ball as someone like Ichigo managed to go days on end on a machine that specifically saps his energy and continue without issue. Or his father Isshin using his energy to let Ichigo train for something like a month without rest (I don't remember the exact number of days so anyone feel free to correct).

 

[The_Prince_of_Counters]

Why would we take shitty art that isn't drawn to scale over in detail statements? First of all during the Thousand Year Blood War Arc Kubo was incredibly stressed, rushed, sick and sustained an injury to his hand. Compare that to the newer and more recent Light Novels where we're given actual statements of how big the Seireitei should be, which are all consistent with each other. I think it's absurd to try to say that the Seireitei is only 3KM in diameter otherwise Toshiro would have a much higher range with his Bankai than the entire Seireitei, almost three times the size, Gin wouldn't be able to use his Bankai in the Seireitei and given the amount of districts in the Seireitei they wouldn't be able to fit all the Shinigami and Souls in the Seireitei if it were that small. Look at it like this, it's a case of inconsistent art made by an artist who wasn't in the best state to be drawing and is outdated vs a recent Novel that the artist is currently writing which gives us two statements on how big the Seireitei actually is. I think the answer is clear.

 

[Sekkonds.]

Stop It

 

[Sekkonds.]

There were revisions for seiriti size with all damn statments vs pixel scaling stuff with admins and staff members..it was agreed to use statements over size

Don't turn this to that mess again

 

[Wokistan]

The "statements vs size" thing seems to be the issue that this thread aims to address though.

Is there some sort of hierarchy with the manga and novel? Is one considered above the other, or are both on the same level?

 

[AppleLord]

it in my calc.]

You debunked your own calc on reddit for it ever being valid when you posted it.
"This isn't the Seireitei any longer, but the Quincy City. I calc Silbern roof from Uryu and the Meteor from the roof. The Size of Seireitei is not needed for the calc.

But if you insist:

Silbern Ceiling = 5px = 28.76 m

Seireitei Size = 539px = 3100.328 meters

3.1 Km Seireitei."

Which is less then Toshiro 12km reach

Toshiro affects 12 km (if isn't a misstranslation) with one ability. He told Halibel that much. Can you provide a scan of Toshiro affecting Seiretei but not covering it up completely?

 

[The_Prince_of_Counters]

The "statements vs size" thing seems to be the issue that this thread aims to address though.

Is there some sort of hierarchy with the manga and novel? Is one considered above the other, or are both on the same level?

Both are the same however the Light Novel is a lot more detailed about events and such than the Manga is and came out more recently hence why it should take priority over the Manga, which ended in 2014 iirc.

 

[AppleLord]

@Dargoo The fact that it's not inconsistent with the statements, the art is just super inconsistent in general, even against other pieces of art from later on or earlier on. Meanwhile, both Seireitai and Las Noches have consistent statements about their ridiculous size, and the novels which came after the end of the manga are also consistent about the ridiculous size.

As for the assumption of rest, we already assumed 8 hours of rest each day, which would still be a low ball as someone like Ichigo managed to go days on end on a machine that specifically saps his energy and continue without issue. Or his father Isshin using his energy to let Ichigo train for something like a month without rest (I don't remember the exact number of days so anyone feel free to correct).

If you want to stay consistent to statements no such rest time should be use since this characters can stay weeks without rest or food thanks to their pools of energy.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

@Applelord

You do realize Bankai and Abilities that affect all or a large portion of Seireitei is completely banned within Seireitei right? The 7th Kenpachi rather die then activate his Bankai and breaking the rules.

 

[USklaverei]

There really is not much to say, if we do 10 different pixel calculations about the size of Seireitei, the 10 will give different results, that's a huge inconsistency.

Unlike the pixel scale, the size statements do not contradict each other, either in the manga or in the novel.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

The "statements vs size" thing seems to be the issue that this thread aims to address though.
Is there some sort of hierarchy with the manga and novel? Is one considered above the other, or are both on the same level?

Nope, Novels are pretty much post-manga with another being hundreds of years before I think.

 

[AppleLord]

@Applelord
You do realize Bankai and Abilities that affect all or a large portion of Seireitei is completely banned within Seireitei right? The 7th Kenpachi rather die then activate his Bankai and breaking the rules.

I stand corrected. Toshiro didn't used such ability on Seireitei to debunk 3 km seireitei.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

@Apple

Hence why I called it a low ball, but one I am very okay with. It should align well with some people that may think Orihime shouldn't have that level of stamina even if she has the energy.

 

[AppleLord]

There really is not much to say, if we do 10 different pixel calculations about the size of Seireitei, the 10 will give different results, that's a huge inconsistency.

Unlike the pixel scale, the size statements do not contradict each other, either in the manga or in the novel.

The meteor ISN'T about to hit Seireitei but the Wandenreich city, and there are only three panel shots of that city. The one that had the meteor is the only usable one, since is the only one with the full shot.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

But the City encompasses all of the Sereitei, so the size of both can be interchangable unless I missed some statement that would make us think it is smaller than the Seireitei.

 

[AppleLord]

@Apple
Hence why I called it a low ball, but one I am very okay with. It should align well with some people that may think Orihime shouldn't have that level of stamina even if she has the energy.

I don't see how a Fullbringer cannot have such capabilities when she blitz supersonic bombs and defeated unseated Shinigami which have "shunpo" the ability to move faster than the human eye can see. Can someone explain to me how Orihime survived Yoruichi's training prior to arriving at Seireitei during those 7 days?

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

I stand corrected. Toshiro didn't used such ability on Seireitei to debunk 3 km seireitei.

You literally make 0 sense.

Yama's Reiatsu can reach 13km while suppressed in the human world. Where the hell would Shunsui take Nanao if Seireitei is 3km but he flash stepped within Seireitei cause she was foaming from the mouth in his presence.

 

[AppleLord]

I stand corrected. Toshiro didn't used such ability on Seireitei to debunk 3 km seireitei.

You literally make 0 sense.
Yama's Reiatsu can reach 13km while suppressed in the human world. Where the hell would Shunsui take Nanao if Seireitei is 3km but he flash stepped within Seireitei?

I don't remember anyone mentioning that Shunsui remained inside Seiretei when he transported her out of there. Yes, I did used that as a low-ball in my calc for Shunsui's speed.

I could argue the same thing for "mountains" been inside Sereitei grounds when none of the aerial shots shows such mountains. Bleach is well known when it comes to dimension traveling, and dimension creation. Urahara has a town size dimension in his basement, which has it's own sky and sun. Zero Squad lived in another dimension above Seiretei, and the Gotei 13 have the void prison named Muken below Sereitei and that room streches of Infinity. Do we also have to add a infinite size void to the meteor calc?

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

I'll just say that I prefer IMade's calc. I am a bit too tired of arguing statements and art, and we've already reached the art consensus before. There's no reason to do it again, and I am not about to do it again sorry.

If anyone has any issues, bring them up about the statements themselves.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Well that's because the statements don't contradict each other ever over the years. Seiretei has been drawn as a block of land all the way to a large city. I can post some pics in a bit since they're spread across alot of chapters.

The issue is that, as per what you said, none of the actual showings of the city match the statements. Even if the statements are consistent, they're also consistently contradicted by what is shown.