Bleach - Possible Shunsui & Ukitake Higher Line of Scaling

[MillenniumSunny]

Unsure if this has already been discussed but couldn’t find any examples of it. In CFYOW, Ginjō says he fully expected that he and Ukitake would kill each other in battle. Ginjō should reasonably know how strong Ukitake is from his time as a Substitute Soul Reaper, and it wouldn’t make much sense for him to be saying he expected they would kill each other if he didn’t know how strong he was. At the least, he definitely doesn’t make it sound like he would have washed him. We also know that he has an absurd amount of spiritual pressure, and contributed the most to creating the gate to Reiokyu, so when he was out of commission they needed all the surviving Gotei 13 soldiers and the energy from the distortions collected by the others as well. It makes sense to scale him to TYBW Ginjō to me, and that would place Shunsui and his opponents in that range too. It always bothered me that Shunsui’s profile was so weak even though he’s the Captain Commander. Unsure what effects this would have on other profiles, but could extend pretty far considering that one statement that old Captains like Shunsui don’t typically get much stronger over time.

 

[Apollonir.Scale]

This statement is mostly related to Ukitake's past attempt to kill Ginjo.

 

[Random-Helper323]

Shunsui is annoyingly inconsistent, fighting Lille evenly but also losing against Robert.

 

[DragoZeroNova]

Shunsui is annoyingly inconsistent, fighting Lille evenly but also losing against Robert.

Well, he was locked out when fight Robert (didn't even use a single game), but he locked in against Lille (played games, used Bankai and Kido, still would lost if Nanao wasn't there).

 

[Apollonir.Scale]

Shunsui's gameplay doesn't increase his AP-Dura. I don't understand why it was listed as if there was an increase.

 

[DragoZeroNova]

Shunsui's gameplay doesn't increase his AP-Dura. I don't understand why it was listed as if there was an increase.

It's not. His release state is what's categorized, as in his state when he has his Shikai released

 

[Apotheosis69]

Yeah its his Shikai inherently that is an amp. And it unironically is quite a big one, with him stabbing and harming Lille, whom most certainly has Blut Vene active at all times. He isn't stupid enough not to use it, and well his X-Axis "bullets" having literally no use of Arterie as its just pure hax, Spatial destruction.

 

[Infinite9Luck]

I don’t know if you read the whole passage, but it lacks context. Aside from the mention of an attempt to kill Ginjo in the past so it doesn't count, the “die on each other’s sword” line is mostly referring to them clashing, not what would literally happen.

Ukitake, given his illness, is comparable to Shunsui. But Shunsui is already weaker than base Ginjo in the same novel, let alone any Hollow-amped version of Ginjo. So this is a factual scaling chain that fully debunks, the vague statement. (Even the Fullbring arc Ginjo is scaled higher in this wiki)

Fully disagree.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

But Shunsui is already weaker than base Ginjo in the same novel

Wasn’t base Ginjo like on the level of base Grimmjow?

 

[Infinite9Luck]

Wasn’t base Ginjo like on the level of base Grimmjow?

No, he's stronger.

 

[Random-Helper323]

I'd have to check the profiles, but Ginjo in the Fullbring Arc fought against Ichigo. Only a few months later Ichigo was able to fight Quilge and Yhwach, who could fight Yamamoto's Bankai. I'd assume Ichigo is stronger at the start of TYBW than at the end of Fullbring, but I wouldn't normally assume it's by all that much. The captains present are also treated as unable to stop Ginjo without Ichigo.

 

[Apotheosis69]

I mean, Ichigo was still living a completely normal school life between Fullbring and TYBW. At absolute most he just takes care of rogue Hollows in the Human World, he didn't do any Training. So I don't really think he got much stronger, if even at all.

 

[Random-Helper323]

I mean, Ichigo was still living a completely normal school life between Fullbring and TYBW. At absolute most he just takes care of rogue Hollows in the Human World, he didn't do any Training. So I don't really think he got much stronger, if even at all.

That's what I was saying.

 

[Apollonir.Scale]

It's not. His release state is what's categorized, as in his state when he has his Shikai released

What I meant was the childish games he plays with his shikai. I didn't explain it well, it's my fault. His shikai turns those childish games into reality, and it's possible for anyone to beat anyone else in a game. So it's not that he deals damage because he's stronger, but because he wins the game. Even though he uses a shikai, he only managed to beat Starrk, who was nerfed because his soul was split.

He didn't play any games against Robert either.

I mean, Ichigo was still living a completely normal school life between Fullbring and TYBW. At absolute most he just takes care of rogue Hollows in the Human World, he didn't do any Training. So I don't really think he got much stronger, if even at all.

I agree with that logic, but it would be an anti-feat for him to be Base Yhwach level, especially considering Ginjo wasn't even Base Yhwach level in the novel.