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Indeed. And it's a bit of an obvious statement too since Aizen has always had unparalleled Reiatsu. He was chosen as a Special War Potential just for his Reiatsu.AnonymousBlank said:
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Bleach Revisions Part 3: Post-Timeskip (Fullbring, TYBW and CFYOW Novel) (Part 3)
- Thread starter USklaverei
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Why would there be a random scan comparing the speeds of these 2 characters?AnonymousBlank said:
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That's the scan we need though. If there is no speed comparison or even their combat ability in general, we can't scale anything.
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Are you all trying to scale Aizen below Tokinade or something?
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@Sigurd; I'm not trying to. The sandbox in the OP is scaling Dangai Ichigo and Monster Aizen to CFYOW Novel. I'm trying to find out why.
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We gave arguments above and you did not answer about it. I don't understand now.
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Who remembers Baseline 6-A Yhwach?
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Dangai Ichigo as mentioned several times is = to TS Ichigo. Is there something in the novel that places anyone there above TS Ichigo? the strongest or something? Because lase I checked Ichigo is still regarded as the most powerful.
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What? I was waiting on the quotes from the novel to support the arguments. I thought you were looking for them?USklaverei said:
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That was about Base Aizen, as far as I remember it was something quoting Byakuya and Yoruichi, however, I didn't find it.Damage3245 said:
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As for Aizen he reached a state no Shinigami or Hollow could ever reach via The Hogyoku.
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Recordings of the Fake Karakura Town which means mostly Base Aizen. Because after that Aizen can't be sensed and he no longer uses Kyoka sooo yes it's Base they're referring to...Which is ridiculous that Base Aizen is still relevant even at this point
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The likes of Hikone at his full power can't even push Kenpachi to use his Shikai at all. It's perfectly fine to scale Dangai and Monster Aizen at least to him or above him anyways. No matter how you cut it they'll scale.
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@Sigurd; err, why? What's the reason exactly?
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Because they're regarded as the strongest with Ichigo at the top of the food chain? I don't see why it's difficult to understand.
You haven't really given a reason why they shouldn't outside of personal doubt.
"Then, Hisagi turned to face Hikone. Some people wanted to lend a hand, but after Hisagi's exchange with Zaraki, they backed away because the battle was meant to be one-on-one. There were not many warriors who could deal with such an opponent; except Kurosaki Ichigo, Aizen Sosuke and Zaraki Kenpachi. At the very least, perhaps Urahara Kisuke or Kurotsuchi Mayuri could find a way to resist this opponent."
You haven't really given a reason why they shouldn't outside of personal doubt.
"Then, Hisagi turned to face Hikone. Some people wanted to lend a hand, but after Hisagi's exchange with Zaraki, they backed away because the battle was meant to be one-on-one. There were not many warriors who could deal with such an opponent; except Kurosaki Ichigo, Aizen Sosuke and Zaraki Kenpachi. At the very least, perhaps Urahara Kisuke or Kurotsuchi Mayuri could find a way to resist this opponent."
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@Sigurd; where does it say that the only reason they can fight him is due to speed?
The same chapter also states that Urahara, Mayuri and Ginjo could fight him too but they're not all rated as MFTL.
The same chapter also states that Urahara, Mayuri and Ginjo could fight him too but they're not all rated as MFTL.
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I don't understand your issue here, you're looking for these very very specific statements for some reason. None of this is necessary. I've given you a crystal clear statement that says right there 3 people can take him on for sure.
It doesn't say Mayuri and Kisuke could fight Hikone it says they can maybe find a way to resist him.
Not sure about this Ginjo statement, but feel free to link it here. He spent the entire chapter fighting Tokinade.
It doesn't say Mayuri and Kisuke could fight Hikone it says they can maybe find a way to resist him.
Not sure about this Ginjo statement, but feel free to link it here. He spent the entire chapter fighting Tokinade.
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And once again, I would like to mention that by this point, both Aizen and Ichigo have gotten much more powerful than their Dangai forms and God forms when this comparison is made.
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Oh god not this 5-B thing again.
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Dont feed the troll and he will leave eventualy
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Conclusions non yetAntvasima said:
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My problem is that they're is such a vast difference in both time and power between these forms that backscaling shouldn't be done without good solid evidence. And in this case, the only evidence is transcdence. Which doesn't make sense to use with the likes of Kenpachi involved because that would mean either, he's not transcdent yet can keep up with Hikone who is transcendent with no problem or he is and we have no idea if he's stronger than or weaker than these previous forms in which we're mentioning since Kenpachi has clearly gotten much more powerful and faster by the point of the CFYOW.
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As explained to you already in the previous thread.
1. There is no vast amount of time that takes place, even so it wouldn't even matter due to context.
2. There is no vast difference between these forms, this is very vague here. You do know Kenpachi doesn't use his Shikai throughout the novel besides to one shot Iko right? There is no such statement of Kenpachi and etc being vastly stronger now than they were in the war.
3. Except he is considered so. You even see it in the war arc, his power cannot be detected by a couple Shinigami. He's also regarded as the most powerful Shinigami right now (disregarding Ichigo who is a hybrid, Aizen who has the Hogyoku, and Ichibei likely)
4. I didn't understand what you were saying here regarding Hikone at all here.
You're logic revolves around them for some reason suggesting they neee 5-B Ichigo and Aizen to take out tier 6 Hikone who isn't even worthy enough for Kenpachi to draw out his power even though Hikone tried very hard.
1. There is no vast amount of time that takes place, even so it wouldn't even matter due to context.
2. There is no vast difference between these forms, this is very vague here. You do know Kenpachi doesn't use his Shikai throughout the novel besides to one shot Iko right? There is no such statement of Kenpachi and etc being vastly stronger now than they were in the war.
3. Except he is considered so. You even see it in the war arc, his power cannot be detected by a couple Shinigami. He's also regarded as the most powerful Shinigami right now (disregarding Ichigo who is a hybrid, Aizen who has the Hogyoku, and Ichibei likely)
4. I didn't understand what you were saying here regarding Hikone at all here.
You're logic revolves around them for some reason suggesting they neee 5-B Ichigo and Aizen to take out tier 6 Hikone who isn't even worthy enough for Kenpachi to draw out his power even though Hikone tried very hard.
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shikai = dangai > monster aizen (able to harm dangai) >> kenpachi >>> hikone
Idk what is soooo hard to understand
Idk what is soooo hard to understand
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Because there is no proof that Kenpachi is weaker than Dangai Ichigo or Monster Aizen. And the fact that Kenpachi has apparently gotten so much faster in such a short span of time from the end of the war to the CFYOW novel points to him being much more powerful by this point. And if he is transcdent, whose to say he's weaker than these previous incarnations of characters from nearly a year ago.
My logic is that the Ichigo and Aizen they're talking about is much more powerful than the Ichigo and Aizen that are being scaled to in this instance. So backscaling them to be MFTL doesn't make sense.
My logic is that the Ichigo and Aizen they're talking about is much more powerful than the Ichigo and Aizen that are being scaled to in this instance. So backscaling them to be MFTL doesn't make sense.
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To me it sounds as if he is trying to say that base aizen and shikai ichigo (war arc) are already 5B at baseSigurd Snake in The Eye said:
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Universal yamamto >> everyone else
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@Duedate
This is wrong, I advise you to look at the profiles and justifications. The only Ichigo relevant here in the context of Kenpachi is scaled from Kenpachi. All the god tiers already scale from from Kenpachi and etc regarding their tier 6 keys. And for some reason the fact that TS Ichigo is literallly Dangai Ichigo keeps going over your head. Every other Ichigo is 5-B.
There is proof. Kenpachi is peak Shinigami, the people who scale above him have broken the barrier between Hollow and Shinigami. Except current 5-B Aizen who is an outlier due to the absorption of the Hogyoku.
This is wrong, I advise you to look at the profiles and justifications. The only Ichigo relevant here in the context of Kenpachi is scaled from Kenpachi. All the god tiers already scale from from Kenpachi and etc regarding their tier 6 keys. And for some reason the fact that TS Ichigo is literallly Dangai Ichigo keeps going over your head. Every other Ichigo is 5-B.
There is proof. Kenpachi is peak Shinigami, the people who scale above him have broken the barrier between Hollow and Shinigami. Except current 5-B Aizen who is an outlier due to the absorption of the Hogyoku.
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Aizen doesn't really matter but what you said about ichigo doesn't make any sense,he lost his powers after the yhwach's war and was slowly regaining them few chapters before this fight how the hell would he be stronger than beforeDuedate8898 said:
@Ant Most of the problems were solved but there are still some issues so no conclusion yet
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Askin > Ichigo is pretty funny.AppleLord said:
I guess you're basing this off of Askin dropping Ichigo with hax...?
I guess Kisuke is also > Ichigo and so is Yoruichi ƒºÉ
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If Kenpachi is peak Shinigami then he shouldn't be able to take on Hikone who is transcendent, because apparently being trasncendent immediately means that you're above all others who aren't transcendent which creates a paradox in this situation.
And the characters only mention Ichigo, and by this point, Ichigo cut Yhwach in half. And several people saw Bankai Ichigo, and everyone should know that Ichigo was the one to ultimately kill Yhwach. So saying that they're only talking about True Shikai Icihgo doesn't make sense. And to further contradict that point on them scaling in speed, true shikai Ichigo managed to get surprised shot at by Uryu twice, once even getting hit by one of his arrows. So why isn't Uryu scaled to MFTL as well? Or Jugram for battling him? This is also the same Uryu that made the winning shot on Yhwach so shouldn't he have reason to scale at this point?
And the characters only mention Ichigo, and by this point, Ichigo cut Yhwach in half. And several people saw Bankai Ichigo, and everyone should know that Ichigo was the one to ultimately kill Yhwach. So saying that they're only talking about True Shikai Icihgo doesn't make sense. And to further contradict that point on them scaling in speed, true shikai Ichigo managed to get surprised shot at by Uryu twice, once even getting hit by one of his arrows. So why isn't Uryu scaled to MFTL as well? Or Jugram for battling him? This is also the same Uryu that made the winning shot on Yhwach so shouldn't he have reason to scale at this point?
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only people that have seen his bankai is ginjo, tukishima, orihime, Uryu, aizen and Yhwach no one else
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Renji? He was there in that final attack.
And once again, all these people should know it was Ichigo that did the deed of putting Yhwach done.
And once again, all these people should know it was Ichigo that did the deed of putting Yhwach done.
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1. You're misunderstanding, I'm not sure how else to explain it to you simply there isn't some paradox here lol.
2. Who saw Bankai Ichigo...? You mean Aizen and Renji? This is irrelevant here since neither do anything in the novel of note or even exist in the novel. Literally the 1st book of the novel series is about how anything involving Ichigo, Yhwach, and etc would remain hidden to everyone who doesn't know already to avoid mass panic.
3. It does make sense, it's literally you who doesn't understand this very simple thing.
4. Dude you just said it yourself he surprised him and now you're asking why doesn't scale? Why did you even mention the PIS arrow scene as some form of scaling?
2. Who saw Bankai Ichigo...? You mean Aizen and Renji? This is irrelevant here since neither do anything in the novel of note or even exist in the novel. Literally the 1st book of the novel series is about how anything involving Ichigo, Yhwach, and etc would remain hidden to everyone who doesn't know already to avoid mass panic.
3. It does make sense, it's literally you who doesn't understand this very simple thing.
4. Dude you just said it yourself he surprised him and now you're asking why doesn't scale? Why did you even mention the PIS arrow scene as some form of scaling?
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Because Uryu has two seperate instances of hitting someone who should be MFTL and one instance of surprising the same person he hit. At that point, maybe it isn't PIS but him just being comparable. Especially because Ichigo isn't portrayed as someone whose that much faster than everyone else with True Shikai. Not just that, but even if you surprise someone, if the speed difference is too large it wouldn't matter. Clearly in these instances, the speed difference isn't large enough to the point that Uryu shouldn't be able to hit him.
We allow Orihime to scale but not Uryu? That doesn't make sense.
And you're saying no one knows that Ichigo was the one to kill Yhwach? I understand the exact circumstances not being widespread, but there is no point in hiding that bit is there? Like does everyone assume Yhwach just dropped dead?
Edit:Correction to number of people hit.
We allow Orihime to scale but not Uryu? That doesn't make sense.
And you're saying no one knows that Ichigo was the one to kill Yhwach? I understand the exact circumstances not being widespread, but there is no point in hiding that bit is there? Like does everyone assume Yhwach just dropped dead?
Edit:Correction to number of people hit.
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1. What? He was literally untouchable. He already scales above Kenpachi dude what are you even saying. Uryu is not relevant here.
2. Because she has feats of defending against Yhwach and keeping up enough to aid Ichigo. This is completely different I don't even know how this relevant to the scaling of 3 characters. She also has no anti feats and only scales in reaction speed.
3. It isn't known. Most don't even know the Soul King is dead amongst the Shinigami dude. All they know is Yhwach was defeated.
2. Because she has feats of defending against Yhwach and keeping up enough to aid Ichigo. This is completely different I don't even know how this relevant to the scaling of 3 characters. She also has no anti feats and only scales in reaction speed.
3. It isn't known. Most don't even know the Soul King is dead amongst the Shinigami dude. All they know is Yhwach was defeated.
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