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Bloodborne downgrade or Terraria Upgrade

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Saikou_The_Lewd_King

Saikou_The_Lewd_King

The King of all Things Lewd
VS Battles
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So, uh, it has comes to my attention that The Hunter from Bloodborne is scaled from the Moon Presence 's telekinetic speed of moving the moon at such speed.

Now I guess it makes sense that assuming that a Bloodlusted opponent would uses it's full attack speed against an opponent, much like we assume they would uses their full AP.

However, the exact same situation happened with the Terraria beating the Celestial Towers . Said Towers moved the Moon at Relativistic speed, yet it isn't applied to the Terrarian's speed.

Both situations are the same, yet both scaling are different, so I would say that either The Hunter gets downgraded to MHS+ or the Terrarian gets upgraded to Relat.
 
I have to say that this type of scaling doesn't feel right IMO. Gabriel also moves several stars in the sky with his Astro Hand ability, but it doesn't get an increase of speed for that since it's just a special ability and not his actual movement speed. Not only that, this ability is also kept separated from its usual combat AP because otherwise by scaling Toaru would have more than 10 Star level characters, which would frankly be nonsense considering other feats of those characters.

I haven't played Bloodborne (not very good at that kind of games), but I've watched a few let's plays of it. The jump from Building level Hunter to Large Planet level just for the last two bosses seems ridiculous, and his speed also seems wrong considering the previous bosses of the game have superhuman speed in this wiki (except Ludwig), and several can move as fast or faster than the Hunter. Game mechanics, I know, but there's a difference between mobs and bosses. MHS+ sounds more reasonable, and probably some bosses would get upgraded to that like Ludwig.

About the AP; for the sake of the argument, let's accept that both the Moon Presence's AP and Durability are Moon level because of that single feat, and that this applies to the Hunter instead of being an outlier, since you could argue that the umbilical cord pieces are powering him up to that godly level as the Hunter transforms into a Great One after the fight (I think). I think you can eat all three pieces long before figthing Gehrman, but let's chalk that up to game mechanics, as what matters is that you need to eat them to fight Moon Presence. Even then, I still have to question: why does this scaling apply to Gehrman? You can fight him without eating any of the umbilical cord pieces which trigger the Moon Presence and alternate ending, which is the only thing I can think of that could somehow justify the massive jump in power the Hunter would have to do to face the Moon Presence if it's truly 5-A. The Hunter can still beat him. Why does he get to scale to the Moon Presence and other bosses of the game do not? Even if we don't count the beast bosses, since they are clearly not at the same level as the Moon Presence or Gehrman, aren't there other Great One bosses such as Rom, Ebrietas and Amygdala?
 
First of all, that Bloodborne calc that placed the Hunter at 5-A wasn't accepted by all the members of the calc team. Looking at the video again, it seems that the Moon itself didn't actually move from where it was before the Moon presence appeared.....
 
Lina Shields said:
First of all, that Bloodborne calc that placed the Hunter at 5-A wasn't accepted by all the members of the calc team. Looking at the video again, it seems that the Moon itself didn't actually move from where it was before the Moon presence appeared.....
Click to expand...
Wiat what what do you mean That it doesnt move from where it was before the moon presence appeared?
 
Also @Lazy hunter No you can not eat 3 umbilical cords LONG before the final boss Literally the Only time you can get 3 Is AFTER killing A certain boss And that litterally leaves Margo's wet nurse (a Great one IIRC) Gehrnam and the Moon presence left

You can only Get 1 Before the moon goes red

1 after the moon goes red

and

1 After Killing the 4th to last boss in the game.
 
@DBfan:

MoonP1
Moon is shown before the battle with First Hunter
MoonP2
Moon Presence draws the moon closer
MoonP3
The Moon is shown further away agai

In the sequences shown above in the gallery, the Moon is first shown at a certain size. Then, the Moon presence draws the Moon closer, and the Moon is shown to be larger than it was before on screen.

Soon after the battle between the Moon Presence and the Hunter starts, the Moon is shown to be further away again, as shown by its size in the 3rd picture.

Now I am wondering if the Moon Presence really did drag the Moon closer to Earth, or was the Moon shown closer towards the screen than it actually was for visual effect.
 
Lina Shields said:
@DBfan:
MoonP1
Click to expand...
Moon is shown before the battle with First Hunter
MoonP2
Moon Presence draws the moon closer
MoonP3
The Moon is shown further away agai

In the sequences shown above in the gallery, the Moon is first shown at a certain size. Then, the Moon presence draws the Moon closer, and the Moon is shown to be larger than it was before on screen.

Soon after the battle between the Moon Presence and the Hunter starts, the Moon is shown to be further away again, as shown by its size in the 3rd picture.

Now I am wondering if the Moon Presence really did drag the Moon closer to Earth, or was the Moon shown closer towards the screen than it actually was for visual effect.

The Moon's light even get's brighter though So it could be possible that the Moon going back is just because the animaters where to lazy to actually change the moons possition in the overworld also It looks like it's also in a diffrent location AND SMALLER than in the first pick

So it could be the moon presence moved it away after it came closer

or again because that's how the moon looks in the overworld the animators didn't change it's location Or couldn't with out causing glitchy effects
 
And actually I just noticed but the red light get's dimmer after the moon presence lands and dissipates when it grabs you

(actually rewatching the cutscean for the 10th time Shows the moon was still super close so ignore this)
 
Bumping this, since I've wanted to say this for some time...

I honestly don't believe the Moon Presence should be ranked anywhere near Tier 5, mainly due to a couple in-game reasons:

1.) After killing Rom, the blood moon isn't visible at all from Hemwick, Byrgenwerth, or Cainhurst, which implies that it might not even be real.

2.) Even if it were real, and the Moon Presence moved it with telekinesis, this should still have no bearing on Moon Presence's physical capabilities. Not just because TK is for the most part independent of physical ability but also since the power displayed by characters for about 95% of the game is in the Tier 8 range, with Moon Presence also capable of being killed by the same attacks and weapons that previous enemies could fall to.

The logic for such a high ranking just isn't there, in my view. The only fight against MP takes place in a dream realm of its own creation, so whether the blood moon there is even real either is left fairly ambiguous, and like others have said, it could very well have just been for visual effect.

If MP is a 5-A character then that means the entire verse should be around that tier, even though most characters don't display anything close to that kind of power. Because of this, I personally think that the "moving the moon" feat should be considered an outlier.
 
FIRST OFF

The bloodmoon is litterally just the Moon being brought closer and turned red by the power of the Great ones It's People Beckoning the moon and Bergnworth and Hemwick Sky still changes And i don't count cainherst because I seirously think it's in the nightmare world Because getting their is litterally impossible otherwise So you could Just not be able to see the moon their I mean You can't see the nightmare moon From certain places In the Nightmare world but it's still a thing

Second off The moon precess STILL HITS YOU WITH EVERYTHING IT HAS Not to mention It never shows telekinisis in the fight meaning it could ahve moved it through other means

Not to mention You know The moon Presence CREATED THE Dang MOON IN THE HUNTERS DREAM

Or are we over looking the fact that the moon presence Did that.


You do realize That the Hunter grows in Power thanks to Insight right Insight and The Old blood Are the 2 things other people Tried To use To get closer to the Great ones

Heck Stuff Like Mergo Crying, The Augmigdollas, And Other thigns that only appere during the Bloodmoon Can Be seen/heard Before The Red Moon Appears By Gaining 50 Insight

Implying that the hunter gained Loads of plot insight From Killing Rom

And The hunter gained loads of Plot insight from the 3 Umbilical cords In order to Fight The moon presence

if a person who compleatly Immobolized him in one ending couldn't catch him in another and got sent flying

So The hunter gains strenght Due to Insight Otherwise Using somthing that spacifically gives Insight Wouldn't increase his strenght enough to fight the moon presence

Plus You Know you could also argue he gains plot strenght by absorbing the Blood Echo's of Everyone

and at least 1 great one (aygmigdala as the Lore hints Rom is Just a Kin) Possibly 2 (The brain of mensis)

SO your whole argument of "THE SAME ATTACKS AND WEAPONS THAT KILL OTHER PEOPLE KILLING THE MOON PRESENCE" is not true Because you know the hunter gains power due to the plot
 
WeeklyBattles said:
Oh CF, if only you knew...there may be some tier 4 Bloodborne upgrades coming very soon...
Click to expand...
You referring to Ebrietas or the Living Failures?

Dbfan and critic said:
FIRST OFF

The bloodmoon is litterally just the Moon being brought closer and turned red by the power of the Great ones It's People Beckoning the moon and Bergnworth and Hemwick Sky still changes And i don't count cainherst because I seirously think it's in the nightmare world Because getting their is litterally impossible otherwise So you could Just not be able to see the moon their I mean You can't see the nightmare moon From certain places In the Nightmare world but it's still a thing
Click to expand...
Cainhurst is only impossible to get to because the bridge is broken. Cainhurst, Hemwick, and Byrgenwerth aren't part of Yharnam, either, so the blood moon phenomenon may simply have been local in its scope. Also, because the blood moon is visible in the Hunter's Dream as well as Yharnam, it may be that it is actualy Yharnam getting pulled into the Nightmare, similar to the Lecture Building.

Dbfan and critic said:
Second off The moon precess STILL HITS YOU WITH EVERYTHING IT HAS Not to mention It never shows telekinisis in the fight meaning it could ahve moved it through other means
Click to expand...
True, he didn't display that ability, but for the telekinesis I'm simply going by the profile page, which says he has it.

Dbfan and critic said:
Not to mention You know The moon Presence CREATED THE Dang MOON IN THE HUNTERS DREAM

Or are we over looking the fact that the moon presence Did that.
Click to expand...
No we aren't overlooking that. It's just that... unless the Hunter's Dream is a kind of pocket reality as opposed to an actual, literal dream, then the moon (and the realm itself) might not be entirely real.

Dbfan and critic said:
You do realize That the Hunter grows in Power thanks to Insight right Insight and The Old blood Are the 2 things other people Tried To use To get closer to the Great ones

Heck Stuff Like Mergo Crying, The Augmigdollas, And Other thigns that only appere during the Bloodmoon Can Be seen/heard Before The Red Moon Appears By Gaining 50 Insight

Implying that the hunter gained Loads of plot insight From Killing Rom
Click to expand...
The Hunter gains more arcane knowledge regarding the state of the world around him/her through Insight. He powers up through leveling and weapon enhancement.

Dbfan and critic said:
SO your whole argument of "THE SAME ATTACKS AND WEAPONS THAT KILL OTHER PEOPLE KILLING THE MOON PRESENCE" is not true Because you know the hunter gains power due to the plot
Click to expand...
You actually are correct to a degree because of leveling up and weapon enhancing/buffing would make the Hunter stronger than at the beginning of the game. I overlooked that part.

I still don't see MP as a Tier 5, sorry.
 
Bro You do realize That Bloodborne is based off Cthulhu Lore

and in said Lore Dreams = Alternate realities

Also It's implied Everything that happened Was a dream IIRC

See the rags you get at the begining of the game Saying "And thus the nightmare begain" And the fact that yahrnam is compleatly fine during the day

"Cainhurst is only impossible to get to because the bridge is broken. Cainhurst, Hemwick, and Byrgenwerth aren't part of Yharnam, either, so the blood moon phenomenon may simply have been local in its scope. Also, because the blood moon is visible in the Hunter's Dream as well as Yharnam, it may be that it is actualy Yharnam getting pulled into the Nightmare, similar to the Lecture Building."

it's also impossible to get to Because You need a specific Summon and some sort of nightmare Carrage (that's already Dead) needs to take you their

OH also I checked Back ANd your right you don't see the bloodmoon IN Hemwick But Here's the thing HEMWICK IS A PART OF YAHRNAM AND THE MOON IS THE PALEBLOOD

and By the time you have access to Hemwick and Cainherst It's mainly the second Phase of the moon at most So Develouper Oversight could be the reasons

Considering I don't trust what happens In The overworld and consider Cutsceans/the Diolog from the NPCs > the overworld

WEll yeah

"The Hunter gains more arcane knowledge regarding the state of the world around him/her through Insight. He powers up through leveling and weapon enhancement."

Oh right and that's how The Hunter was able to Compleatly Own the moon presence Via leveling up and Enhancing his weapons OH wait You could be Level 100 In game And still get the ending were the moon precense makes you his (Insert whatever you want here)

And yet a blood level 4 with their fists Could own him Compleatly if they have the insight given to them by the Umbilical cords


Oh "I still don't see MP as a Tier 5, sorry."

personally i doubt the large planet level calc my self BUT UH I'd still say moon level because it's consistant Heck the Sweet orphan of Kos created whats implied to be a Nightmare version of the moon in the Old hunters DLC
 
oh ALSO TO FURTHER ADD TO MY POINT i'm like 99% sure the Moon in Hemwick Cainherst and Bergenworth Never change position which is strange considering it's implied to be Near the end of the night when THe bloodmoon phase takes effect


Also I'm Should clarify that Insight Could also incress strenght Because THings like The Great ones have a ton of insight how ever i'm not saying The hunter absorbing Bloodechos doesn't give him strenght plot wise ether Granted my argument seems like that now that i reread it But Look at every boss fight in the game

It gives you Both Bloodechos AND INSIGHT both when meeting it and after killing it

my main argument is that Leveling and Enhancing your equipment Have no Influence on your strenght Plot wise Just gameplay wise

Oh also thiers No reason the moon presence would hold back such strong telekinisis If he did have it.
 
First of all, what if the Moon wasn't actually telekinetically moved during the game, but an animator error where they forgot to draw the moon on the proper place?

The three pictures that I posted above should explain.
 
There are literally calculations and lore evaluations that were just posted a few days ago that place Bloodborne's high-tiers at 4-C, i'm just waiting to see if anyone argues against them before making a revision thread
 
Well the only thing I'm wondering is if TK speed can be applied to Attack Speed and the Reaction of someone they fight against if the Character using TK was bloodlusted.
 
WeeklyBattles said:
There are literally calculations and lore evaluations that were just posted a few days ago that place Bloodborne's high-tiers at 4-C, i'm just waiting to see if anyone argues against them before making a revision thread
Click to expand...
And where could one find these?
 
Lina Shields said:
First of all, what if the Moon wasn't actually telekinetically moved during the game, but an animator error where they forgot to draw the moon on the proper place?
The three pictures that I posted above should explain.
Click to expand...
(Anything typed in caps isn't mean screaming it's me Highlighting important points i'm making) First off Anything that happens in Cutscene > What happens In the overworld BECAUSE THE MOON IS CONSISTENTLY IN THE SAME PLACE IN CUTSCEANS EVEN THOUGH IT'S IN DIFFERENT PLACES IN THE OVERWORLD Oh and cutsceans are only used to show VERY IMPORTANT EVENTS

litterally in the fight with gerhman In the overworld it's behind gehrman nd in front of the hunter But In cutscean it's To the Left of gehrman and the rgith of the hunter

So what if the overworld Moon was an error

You are litterally saying Overworld > Cutsceans Even though Cutsceans are so rarely used in the Soulsborne seires

and are only used to show VERY IMPORTANT STUFF

And you see the moons light getting brighter as it gets closer
 
Wow. Assuming that small stars are exploding, I am leaning towards using the mid-end, as it describes as in-game as a small star explosion.

This would place the Hunter and the characters mentioned in the blog to about 4-C. Impressive.
 
The video links ChaosTheory123 used don't show 4-C level destruction, though... I'm guessing it was toned down for gameplay purposes?

Yeah, since it being stellar level destruction would kinda shatter the setting (And general gameplay) into a million pieces (The attack would be completely unavoidable and just blow up the world).
 
I don't want to interupt the fun but we were discussing the validity of the Sub Relat+ speed feat earlier. And as far as I know, Weekly's thread doesn't touch that.
 
Saikou The Lewd King said:
I don't want to interupt the fun but we were discussing the validity of the Sub Relat+ speed feat earlier. And as far as I know, Weekly's thread doesn't touch that.
Click to expand...
I think that depends on whether the moon in the Hunter's Dream is real or not, which, given Bloodborne's setting is kinda... iffy.
 
This is still an issue guys.

Not only is the calc currently unsure, but scaling Attack Speed to Reactions may not work either.
 
We still have the Sub-Relat+ speed based on the 5-A calc. Which more or less seems to have been debunked or at the very least put into question.

Not only that but that's just the speed of Moon Presence's TK, not related to Reactions or Combat speed.
 
It would be faster and safer imo to just put them back at MHS+. The Sub Relat calc itself wasn't even accept when it was added IIRC so..
 
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