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Boruto's stat upgrades

AstralKing7

AstralKing7

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Recently Boruto has been advancing as a ninja and living up to the expectations of his father and Sasuke. In the latest chapters Boruto has been shown new feats. First I wanna discus Boruto's AP upgrade. The latest chapters show Boruto being comparable to a casual but serious Kawaki who at his weakest is 8A+ just from waking up from his sleep. Now for Boruto's Rasengan, it has been portrayed to hurt 7C characters by indications of screams in agony like Ao. With taking this into account some other of Boruto's jutsu should also logically be 7C like his lightning nature jutsus which have been stated to be his strongest nature element and needs more chakra control than the Rasengan iirc

Next I'd like to discuss the speed rating of Boruto. Boruto at a young age was already capable of speed blitzing adult ninja. Kakashi sensei States Boruto in the academy had the skills of a chunin. Well this really goes to show with how Boruto treats other ninjas who are in the higher ends of their tier like Jonin level characters and bingo book ninja. We already are supposed to upgrade Boruto to High Hypersonic+ but he should also have MHS+ reactions scaling from Ao and casual Kawaki who fought a Outer member like Ao and was acknowledged by Mitsuki as fast.
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>The latest chapters show Boruto being comparable to a casual but serious Kawaki who at his weakest is 8A+

Kawaki's key is "At Least 8-A" due to an explosion he creates. When Boruto and Kawaki fought in the recent chapter it was nothing but physicals with no Jutsu. No reason for Boruto to scale to Kawaki's Chakra Explosion that he never interacted with.

>Now for Boruto's Rasengan, it has been portrayed to hurt 7C characters by indications of screams in agony like Ao.

The issue with that, which I brought up in the previous CRT that tried to upgrade Boruto, is that Ao was severely weakened in that fight which makes the scaling shoddy:

The Chakra Saber is able to consume Chakra at such a dramatic rate that it was able to cause Boruto to nearly pass out and collapse in what he said was "a blink of an eye". It is because of this dramatic consumption rate that when Ao held the Chakra Saber Ao explicitly says that it has severely drained his strength and even his speed was slowed down.

Is this nerf quantifiable? Yes, this nerf was so severe that Mitsuki (Mitsuki is 8-B to possibly 8-A) was able to physically overpower Ao with his hand. Earlier, Mitsuki was being physically clowned by Ao, so this nerf was severe.

I also already disagree with Ao even being 7-C from scaling to Konohamaru who has shoddy justification for being 7-C as well, but that's for another thread.

>We already are supposed to upgrade Boruto to High Hypersonic+ but he should also have MHS+ reactions scaling from Ao and casual Kawaki who fought a Outer member like Ao and was acknowledged by Mitsuki as fast.

As I showed above, Ao was explicitly nerfed in speed in their fight. There can be no scaling to Ao's speed when he's not performing at his peak.

Scaling to Kawaki from Kawaki fighting an Outer member of Kara, Garou, is a bit misleading through the scans you've shown. Base Kawaki was easily deafed by Garou and it was Karma Kawaki that beat Garou, but there really isn't a speed comparison we could make there.

On top of this all, we don't know Garou's speed and he seems to be treated as fodder by the other members of Kara that are part of Inner (the fact that he is an "Outer" while they are "Inner" speaks a lot as well). They talk crap on Garou a lot i fact.

I would say MHS+ is out of the question for Boruto.
 
I want to note that when Boruto fought Kawaki, BOTH, were at the same level of calmness. It wasn't a, "Kawaki was casual the entire time and Boruto, while serious struggled to keep up" type of situation. I don't like how saying "Kawaki was casual yet serious" shapes the Narrative in that direction. Boruto was equally as "Casual and Serious" as Kawaki (No offense, Astral, I know you didn't nean it that way).

So, Boruto should be equal to Kawaki from a physical aspect as of now, (At least 8-A+). When it comes to speed, if Bolt's Rasengan is accepted as 7-C, that would make Shojoji a Jonin level ninja and thus MHS+. So I would argue he's "At least High-Hypersonic, Possibly MHS+ (Could equally keep pace with Kawaki and keep up with Shojoji". As for AP, I alsi believe he should be 7-C for causing Ao to sceam aloud in agony. This is decinite proof that Boruto hurt a 7-C ninja, now the issue lays in, the rebuttle.

@IMade believes that because Boruto did not Cause Ao any "superficial damage", Boruto did not hurt Ao abd that Screaming aloud as Ao does in the scans above isn't proof of being hurt, to which I highly disagree. In addition to this, Kep agreed with IMade's PoV, but never responded to me rebuttle on "Fanfiction.net", maybe he read it, maybe he didn't, but even so, Kep's "opinion" can be just as faulty as any of ours, which is why if he agree's with that PoV, I have to disagree with him as well.

I'm notgoing to repost my entire argument, but basically it balls down to:

  • Boruto injured and Knocked out Shojoji, without causing any "Superficial Damage" (Which by itself should kill the same argument being used in regards to Ao).
  • You don't have to be superfically damaged to get hurt badly (Example: If I twist your arm until it is on the edge of breaking, you would be in immense pain and hurting, possibly even screaming like Ao, YET THERE WOULD BE NO SUPERFICIAL DAMAGING DONE TO YOU).
This is why I believe Boruto should be 7-C with Ninjutsu.
 
@IMade

Again, in regards to the Mitsuki situation and Chakra Sabre, you are mistaken. I have already proven you wrong every single time you try and push the Mitsuki holding Ao's Hand thing. It is not a feat of overpowering. You still have not responded to my argument in the previous thread about it, iirc, and if you did, you have not debunken it.

And again, Ao wasn't so weak as to be dropped tiers as he still could deal 7-C damage quite easily as right after, he injured and knocked out Konohamaru.

Your points, are debunken.
 
I see your argument, I really do, we've repeated points back and forth several time in the previous thread to the point where we both thought our arguments were getting ignored. It was basically an impasse at that moment which is why it was closed to allow Kep to return to give his opinion as a knowledgeable staff member. We just don't agree with the other's interpretation of events and feats (you should really link feats btw, it just seems like me having dumped a bunch of scans and you just saying you disagree with no scans), so I think we're still at that waiting phase.

Although there is a new aspect on the table, the MHS+ speed, you didn't counter any point I made on it and all you said was:

> if Bolt's Rasengan is accepted as 7-C, that would make Shojoji a Jonin level ninja and thus MHS+.

Which isn't any sort of justifiable reasoning.
 
I don't understand the comparison between outer members and inners in the first place tho? I compared Ao and Garou because hey are both outer members. Ao has his rating because he was an elite Jonin of the hidden mist village and on average we got elite Jonin at MHS+. The simple fact that Kawaki was weak but was still able to keep up with Garou in his base means that healthy Kawaki is very much mhs+

Tbh I brought up Garou as only a reason to justify Kawaki being MHS+. Boruto is mhs+ in reactions for fighting Ao.
 
Btw, it is stated that Kawaki beat him before (Without Karma as well as Gariu didn't know about it until he was killed).

@Imade

I will start posting scans, it's just for big things like this, where multiple scans are required, I need a desktop for them. Can't do it through mobile efficiently and keep up with the thread.

How about we put a stake in this until Monday when I go to school and get to a computer?
 
I'll leave TFO's arguments alone for now since he's waiting to post scans, but these:

>I compared Ao and Garou because hey are both outer members.

That's not solid justification either.

>Ao has his rating because he was an elite Jonin of the hidden mist village and on average we got elite Jonin at MHS+.

Ao was an elite Jonin over a decade ago and before his injuries. One Elite Jonin being MHS+ doesn't qualify another to be of the same speed, especially one from a different nation.

>The simple fact that Kawaki was weak but was still able to keep up with Garou in his base means that healthy Kawaki is very much mhs+

That'd be solid if you have proof of Garou being MHS+.

>Boruto is mhs+ in reactions for fighting Ao.

That's not possible as I explained with scans above in my comment:

Ao was explicitly nerfed in speed in their fight. There can be no scaling to Ao's speed when he's not performing at his peak.
 
Dude you don't have to be at your peak to scale to others. We know Naruto and Sasuke scale to Momoshiki even tho they weren't at their peak. Same wit Sakura scaling to Naruto and Sasuke in speed even tho Naruto wasn't at his peak during the war
 
Your analogy doesn't work since you're applying a reverse order.

It's not that Ao wasn't at his peak, it's that he wasn't at his prime and much older and post-injured from his prime and also the undeniable fact that he was slower.
 
You do understand that Onoki was way over his prime and still performing feats over Mach 4000 after the war right??? In Naruto verse age doesn't play too much of a part with anything. Did you ignore Sakura scaling to Naruto???

Also Aos injury is nothing iirc when he still scales to Konohomaru lol. I forgot Ao attacked him before he could reacts.

It's crazy tho that you think age has a big part to play with things in naruto
 
Onoki is a Kage, how are you gonna compare Ao to him? Especially Ao post his injuries.

I did ignore Sakura scaling to Naruto since that analogy doesn't fit our discussion. You did ignore something important though, the fact that Ao was slowed down due to the Chakra Sabre.

Age does have a hand when we have old characters beyond their primes like Hiruzen and old Madara.
 
To start with, I don't like how we automatically scale jounin to Town level and MHS+. If I had my way, those jounin without actual feats or solid implications would be 8-A and High Hypersonic scaling to the special jounin.

But okay, if we want to start scaling all jounin to 7-C and MHS+ Gaara is in need of an upgrade. And then Lee, Naruto, and Sasuke.

What should happen is that these people like Ao and Konohamaru should be downgraded to High Hypersonic, in my opinion. Baseline for chuunin should be 8-B and Hypersonic if they're not noted to be anything special. The exceptions should be people like Mirai, for example.
 
Agree all around, going through many Naruto profiles is off seeing how so many are being scaled to Town Level and MHS+ because they are "Jonin" or scale to "Jonin" characters despite neither having feats to justify the tier, just a title that isn't even solid since Naruto literally has outliers for both ends in all titles (Genin, Chunin, Jonin and Kage).
 
Current the elite Jonin are the only 7Cs and mhs+. This was agreed upon before not by me. As well as Ao being considered an elite Jonin for more than obvious reasons. No one said anything about all Jonin when it's only elite Jonin and the profiles already show this when ninja liken Shino don't even scale to 7C.

Also I'm still confused when we all agreed that the average chunin is only High Hypersonic. This doesn't make sense to put them at Hypersonic. For instance Boruto has been Hypersonic while he was said to be chunin level, he definitely isn't noted to be anything but special ƒÿæ. He should have been upgraded a while ago when he blitzed a group of chunin.

Konohomaru even has MHS+ reactions as well as a child and is full on mhs+ as an adult. Instead of downgrading everyone it's starting to look more like all of the chunin level characters have around average mhs+ reactions
 
In the Naruto verse you can still use up a lot of chakra and still move around pretty well depending on your endurance. Hell look at Boruto himself. He used the chakra saber the second time without falling to his knees. When it comes to the scientific weapons it takes a little while to get adjusted to the chakra consumption rate of them. This is why we literally Ao being able to use the chakra saber again as well and why after the second time he wasn't completely drained of all chakra.

Ao was even able to use a water style jutsu on his death bed. A matter of fact Ao used multiple jutsus after using the chakra saber and he even used a jutsu while the chakra saber was still activated. This all disproves that he had gotten significantly weaker when just one of his attacks one shotted Konohomaru well knocked him unconscious
 
If you wii downgrade konohamaru you should set him is At least High Hypersonic with Massively Hypersonic+ reactions

1.konohamarumuch faster than mitsuki.

2.Dodge pai

3.Reacted to Pain with Shadow Clone (Create Shadow Clone For the fight And take the real body to hide.)

4.pain can not dodge the speed of konohamaru. (Konohamaru uses the Shadow Clone as a trap and rushes into the from behind with high speed. pain is Can not respond and can not Dodge)

5.Konohamaru faster than Pain in a short time.

6.konohamaru has a faster response than the two ninja attackers.

7.Faster than mitsuki part 2 (Help boruto in time in a short time. Hit the opponent's sword away from the neck of the boruto at a very close distance. The sword is Distance from 1 cm from the neck of the boruto) . And mitsuki can not help boruto In the period when the sword is away from the boruto neck is not up to centimeters.

8.Response lightning.

At least High Hypersonic much faster than mitsuki.

Massively Hypersonic+ respond to pai
 
@Astral

I'm pretty sure they should be Hypersonic. Sasuke beat two chuunin level ninja in Team 7's first mission and he's Hypersonic. He could also keep up with Haku, who would assuredly murder your standard chuunin easily even without his mirrors.

Whatever the case, Base Gaara should be upgraded to 8-A and High Hypersonic alongside Lee. Naruto and Sasuke only scale from Konoha Crush.

For the MHS+ reactions, we'd have to examine if that Pain has MHS+ feats and then we'd decide if it's an outlier or not.
 
It looks like the distance of the boruto sword is far than Tenya. But the distance that konohamaru came to help boruto was far beyond Tenya.

Tenya. Panel height = 8.15 m

Konohamaru Panel height = At least 100 m
 
Burning Full Fingers said:
@Astral

I'm pretty sure they should be Hypersonic. Sasuke beat two chuunin level ninja in Team 7's first mission and he's Hypersonic. He could also keep up with Haku, who would assuredly murder your standard chuunin easily even without his mirrors.

Whatever the case, Base Gaara should be upgraded to 8-A and High Hypersonic alongside Lee. Naruto and Sasuke only scale from Konoha Crush.

For the MHS+ reactions, we'd have to examine if that Pain has MHS+ feats and then we'd decide if it's an outlier or not.
Click to expand...
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/U...ruto:_Rasen_Shuriken_and_Deva_Path_Speed_Calc

Rasen Shuriken speed is Mach 561 - Massively Hipersonic

And pain can Dodge

pain is Massively Hipersonic

The speed of Konoha is not only this.

konohamaru can avoid pain in many occasions pain can not arrest konohamaru
 
I do not know if it is outlier or not. But the truth is that konohamaru can respond to the speed of pain.

If you think it is outlier, you can downgrade konohamaru.

I have no objections to the fact that you will downgrade konohamaru.

However, you should not downgrade konohamaru to High Hypersonic. You should downgrade to High Hypersonic +

1.https://imgur.com/a/X8ksjqx

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/U...ruto:_Rasen_Shuriken_and_Deva_Path_Speed_Calc

2.Faster than mitsuki at At least High Hypersonic

https://imgur.com/a/NbKnDNF

Will you downgrade konohamaru tier or not?

We should give him is At least 8-A

Konohamaru Sarutobi
is outlier

Tier: 8-B | At least 8-A

Speed: Hypersonic | High Hypersonic + this

is not outlier

Tier: At least 8-B | At least 8-A

Speed: High Hypersonic with Massively Hypersonic+ reactions | High Hypersonic+ '''this with Massively Hypersonic+ reactions

Sorry if I use too many messages.
 
High Hypersonic is for chunin based on the temari calc which we all agreed on while Hypersonic is for genin which all the profiles show because of a Narutos Hypersonic feat as a genin which made the High Hypersonic feat from Temari consistent. I'm still tryna figure out tho why Jonin level characters should be High Hypersonic lol it doesn't make any sense when Moegi is forcing Sarada to use sharingan and Base Rock Lee is casually beating the shit out of Metal Lee. Rock lee in base should still be a normal Jonin
 
Shino isn't portrayed physically as strong as any of the other Jonin and hasn't shown chakra control on Konohomarus level that's why u should compare them at all
 
Bruh wtf are you on lol😂 that's not lightning. First like I said that's not lightning second you do understand that you just contradicted yourself with him not being able to dodge the speed of a lightning strike???
 
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