Can The Pirate King overcome A Superman? | Superman vs Luffy | 0-7-0 (Grace)

[Brogeefrong]

Post-COIE Superman is used and is 5-C (90.12 Exatons)
Post-Haōshoku Advancement Luffy is used, starts in Gear 5 and is 5-C, Low 5-B with Bajrang Gun (>33.6 Exatons, 1.381 Zettatons with Bajrang Gun)
Speed is equalized
Fight takes place at your house
SBA Otherwise
Votes
The Man of Steel:0
The Future Pirate King:7
its joever:0

 

[Brogeefrong]

Bump

 

[Brogeefrong]

Bump

 

[Brogeefrong]

bump

 

[Arcker123]

Following.

I'm thinking Luffy for

• Buso dura neg allows Luffy to overcome the AP gap in close quarters
• Precog with Kenbun allows for a huge advantage since Supes in this key can only really use physical attacks
• Conquerors stat amps
• Super cannot do any funny drag to space shenanigans because his LS is inferior (Class G to Class Y)
• All the versatility with rubber manip Gear 5 gives him

Superman doesn't have much in this key at all besides his most basic abilities.

 

[Brogeefrong]

Would Superman have any sort of wincon?

 

[Arcker123]

Would Superman have any sort of wincon?

Maybe just beating to death or heat vision depending on how hot it is.

I'm voting luffy for the reasons I mentioned.

Edit: Barjrang gun is over 10x Supes AP so it oneshots if it hits, which given it's pure size and the fact Supes doesn't have the AP or LS to stop it, I'm more confident in a Luffy vote.

 

[Brogeefrong]

Maybe just beating to death or heat vision depending on how hot it is.

I'm voting luffy for the reasons I mentioned.

counted

 

[Brogeefrong]

Bump

 

[Robo432343]

no bro superman sundips

 

[Arcker123]

He doesn't have the LS to overpower luffy and fly him to the sun

It's Class G vs Class Y

 

[Robo432343]

He doesn't have the LS to overpower luffy and fly him to the sun

It's Class G vs Class Y

no as in superman goes to the sun and becomes 2-C

 

[Arcker123]

Why would he do that before luffy buso's his heart or sum

 

[Keeweed]

Because Luffy doesn’t do that. Name a time he’s ever just destroyed someone’s heart (not because he can’t, but because why would he, he’s not a prick). Much less a complete random stranger that’s practically a full on boy scout. I’m not sure how likely it is for Superman to sun dip, but it’s definitely higher than luffy going all out against Superman for any reason.

 

[Arcker123]

Because Luffy doesn’t do that. Name a time he’s ever just destroyed someone’s heart (not because he can’t, but because why would he, he’s not a prick). Much less a complete random stranger that’s practically a full on boy scout. I’m not sure how likely it is for Superman to sun dip, but it’s definitely higher than luffy going all out against Superman for any reason.

He would use Buso to damage the opponent when he realizes there's a 3x AP gap. Kenbun will allow him to know that and Supermans future actions like flying to the sun. I guess saying he'd blow up superman's heart is a bit out there, but he'd definitely be focusing on internal damage to win.

Superman abandoning the fight to go fly millions of miles away to get an amp against an opponent he's stronger than is not more IC than Luffy using advanced Haki. That's absurd.

Luffy could also just chase him since equal speed and grapple him to prevent him from flying away with Gum Gum giant, Gear 3, or Rubber Bending (Luffy's superior lifting strength makes this possible).

 

[Arcker123]

He can precog the fact going to the sun is going to give Superman an amp that allows him to blitz and oneshot him.

Luffy isn't just gonna let his opponent run away and get a massive amp because precog would let him see that happen before it does.

 

[Keeweed]

It’s not him using Haki that I doubt, it’s him using that function of haki and going for fatal injuries when Luffy has pretty much never gone for fatal hits. Even against completely assholes like the celestial dragon he punched and that spring guy. He’ll beat you up, but he’s not destroying organs to kill a guy.

 

[Arcker123]

Luffy's just gonna punch him the brain and Supes kinda either gets knocked out or dies.

Even if LUffy doesn't want to kill, his attacks will still do major damage and are enough to net him a win and an edge over the 3x AP gap.

 

[Keeweed]

I’m not sure who wins, not really here to argue that, I just wanted to point out that Luffy going super serious and mega kill mode both doesn’t make much sense in general, much less when his opponent is Superman. Luffy is subconsciously good at reading people and Superman is super kind in general.

The only thing versus wise is that I’m pretty sure Superman’s insides are as tough as his outsides. But I won’t be able to confirm that, so for now that works but I’m not sure how much Luffy will use it.

 

[Arcker123]

I’m not sure who wins, not really here to argue that, I just wanted to point out that Luffy going super serious and mega kill mode both doesn’t make much sense in general, much less when his opponent is Superman. Luffy is subconsciously good at reading people and Superman is super kind in general.

He's still willing to fight him and fight to win. He's gonna use Buso to blow up his body simply because it's his best way of fighting opponents with super tough durability as seen with Kaido.

He might not just blow up his brain or sum, but the other shit is fair game, given the durability gap.

The only thing versus wise is that I’m pretty sure Superman’s insides are as tough as his outsides. But I won’t be able to confirm that, so for now that works but I’m not sure how much Luffy will use it.

Can they survive being blown up by 5-C explosions?

But yeah, Luffy would pull out Buso or Bajrang Gun to net a win once he figures out the AP disparity.

 

[Keeweed]

The ap disparity isn’t that big. Sure 3 times is big, but I don’t see why it would put Luffy on edge to try and explode a random guy from the inside out. Especially when he’ll instantly know the guy is good and that guy will pretty much immediately prove it too. Like his regular conqueror’s and armor haki are good, I don’t know why he wouldn’t try those first when he’s fighting some like Superman or another extremely good and kind character.

However, the Bajrang is such a poor attack that I don’t even know why it’s mentioned ever. It takes forever to set up and use, and Superman can fly. Nothing stops him from flying away, if Luffy tries to grab him Superman can freeze his arm (which we know will work because he’s been frozen before with like no issue), then just get out of the way.

 

[Brogeefrong]

The ap disparity isn’t that big. Sure 3 times is big, but I don’t see why it would put Luffy on edge to try and explode a random guy from the inside out. Especially when he’ll instantly know the guy is good and that guy will pretty much immediately prove it too.

sba
Each character will view their opponents as enemies, who they have to assume wish to cause them severe harm such that losing could have any range of dire consequences

 

[Keeweed]

I know that SBA well and have talked about it a lot on other threads. Staff have told me that it’s not supposed to be character breakingly serious and that it’s just a bit poorly worded right now. Overall Luffy still won’t just explode a random guy from the inside out, especially when he can tell he’s a good person.

 

[Arcker123]

The ap disparity isn’t that big. Sure 3 times is big, but I don’t see why it would put Luffy on edge to try and explode a random guy from the inside out. Especially when he’ll instantly know the guy is good and that guy will pretty much immediately prove it too. Like his regular conqueror’s and armor haki are good, I don’t know why he wouldn’t try those first when he’s fighting some like Superman or another extremely good and kind character.

Because its his go to methods of fighting somebody who has a strong durability. That's literally why he needed to learn it.

This argument is pretty hard to believe. You're saying that because Luffy somehow intuits that Superman is morally good, he won't try to use his most effective method of beating him, even though he's willing to fight and kill superman. It would be you who needs to explain that Buso is something he wouldn't use on a high durability target because he's good, which I haven't seen good justification for.

However, the Bajrang is such a poor attack that I don’t even know why it’s mentioned ever. It takes forever to set up and use, and Superman can fly. Nothing stops him from flying away, if Luffy tries to grab him Superman can freeze his arm (which we know will work because he’s been frozen before with like no issue), then just get out of the way.

Luffy can also fly and Precog where Superman intends to go so he can set up where it needs to land.

He got frozen by Aokiji the first time because he didn't have Haki, he was able to survive on Punk Hazard which freezes people just by being on it.

 

[Keeweed]

Yeah but that person was also Kaido, one of the biggest assholes in the series and Luffy’s entire goal was to defeat him to achieve his dreams and save his friends. Superman is fully a random guy that’s barely all that stronger. He’s strong enough to be a massive annoyance, but I don’t see it as strong enough for Luffy to just suddenly want to explode an innocent man to death.

Do we have an exact or general temperature for punk hazard because Superman’s freeze breath is on the higher end of being cold. Though let me check if we have a temperature listed on his profile.

Also, he can fly, but not with any agility when he’s trying to punch with the giant fist. That leaves him mostly stationary.

 

[Keeweed]

So it seems our Superman profile is really eh, which we’ve all known for a while. But Superman both doesn’t have his ice breath nor resistance to ice listed despite his heat resistance and attack being extremely well documented, weird.

So for now I can see the argument for Luffy. But definitely as a long battle and not him just suddenly doing his biggest desperate moves right off the gate from a pretty basic ap disadvantage.

 

[Arcker123]

Yeah but that person was also Kaido, one of the biggest assholes in the series and Luffy’s entire goal was to defeat him to achieve his dreams and save his friends. Superman is fully a random guy that’s barely all that stronger. He’s strong enough to be a massive annoyance, but I don’t see it as strong enough for Luffy to just suddenly want to explode an innocent man to death.

Again, you need to give a reason to believe that.

He learned Buso not because Kaido was an asshole, but because Kaido was tough and had a high level of durability. Luffy learned the technique for high durability people like Superman, I see no reason to think that he won't use it in a fight because his opponent is good when its already assumed he wants to kill (or at least fight) his opponent.

Do we have an exact or general temperature for punk hazard because Superman’s freeze breath is on the higher end of being cold. Though let me check if we have a temperature listed on his profile.

No.

Some OP goon might give you an in depth scaling chain or something.

Also, he can fly, but not with any agility when he’s trying to punch with the giant fist. That leaves him mostly stationary.

Precognition can help with knowing where to move though, but this is whatever. I was bringing this up to show how Luffy can one tap if given the oppurtunity, allowing him to overcome the base AP gap.

So for now I can see the argument for Luffy. But definitely as a long battle and not him just suddenly doing his biggest desperate moves right off the gate from a pretty basic ap disadvantage.

Buso is not some desperate last attack. It's something Luffy imbues into all of his attacks.

 

[Deceived3596]

I lean towards Luffy winning this match up more often than not given Arcker's points.

I'd also like to bring up the fact that while SBA does account for the personalities and characteristics of each fighter, it doesn't entirely abide by them. SBA naturally places these characters in a situation which makes each character feel like if the other character wins, extremely bad consequences will happen. Ones which would cause people who are more pacifistic to delve into more aggressive traits to defeat the opponent. I don't see how Superman being an extremely kind and caring individual would factor into this when Luffy is automatically under that presumption. Unless Superman can quickly convince Luffy to change his perspective of him, I doubt that distinction would matter at all.

Luffy usually not using his Durability Negation against morally good opponents isn't all that important here as he's going against someone who he perceives as about to deal a great harm on the wider world. He would probably see Superman as someone similar to Kaido, an individual who caused great damage and destruction onto the country of Wano. And we know that after Luffy unlocked the usage of Ryou, he used it against Kaido multiple times.

Now, this doesn't mean he'll instantly start off with it. It however does mean that he'll definitely use it in this fight, and probably would use it decently quickly since it's one of his most potent abilities, and he's going against someone he perceives as being a wicked individual who is about to deal major harm onto the world.

 

[Keeweed]

Again I’ve brought those SBA points up to multiple staff before, funnily enough on a Superman thread. They specifically told me that was not what it meant, it was supposed to be more the minimum to get them to fight, not the maximum with how it’s really worded now. It’s genuinely just very poor wording on SBA’s part. Maybe I should make a thread on it after all.

 

[Deceived3596]

Again I’ve brought those SBA points up to multiple staff before, funnily enough on a Superman thread. They specifically told me that was not what it meant, it was supposed to be more the minimum to get them to fight, not the maximum with how it’s really worded now. It’s genuinely just very poor wording on SBA’s part. Maybe I should make a thread on it after all.

Unless they're the people who originally wrote the description out, I don't care what their personal opinions are on it. It pretty blatantly explains the mind set of the characters and how they perceive the consequences that could occur if the opponent wins. If people believe it shouldn't be worded like that, then someone should definitely make a thread on it. Until then, I believe with how it's worded, Luffy would see Superman as a dire threat, and would be more than willing to use his potent abilities against him.

 

[Arcker123]

I doubt that would affect the match too much. Advanced Buso is simply not an attack Luffy restrains himself from using against powerful foes, especially ones he's mid fight with and could possibly kill him. We have no reason to believe he'd hesitate to use it, especially when he has Kenbun to see where/what the best options of attack are.

 

[Keeweed]

Unless they're the people who originally wrote the description out, I don't care what their personal opinion are on it. It pretty blatantly explains the mind set of the characters and how they perceive the consequences that could occur if the opponent wins. If people believe it shouldn't be worded like that, then someone should definitely make a thread on it. Until then, I believe with how it's worded, Luffy would see Superman as a dire threat, and would be more than willing to use his potent abilities against him.

Honestly I used to think the same, but reluctantly because I thought the rule was dumb. It still is dumb though, so I’ll make a thread on it today.

However, if we acting like Luffy is treating this omega super serious, then Superman would be too and he could then just fly off to the sun and get hilariously massively stronger and come back and one shot. He starts 4km away, speed equalized Luffy isn’t getting there before Superman is long gone. I don’t think he’ll actually usually go for it, but there is no way Luffy would just open with the giant fist either. SBA as they are currently suck.

 

[Keeweed]

I doubt that would affect the match too much. Advanced Buso is simply not an attack Luffy restrains himself from using against powerful foes, especially ones he's mid fight with and could possibly kill him. We have no reason to believe he'd hesitate to use it, especially when he has Kenbun to see where/what the best options of attack are.

Except he’s used it once and it was against a prick. He’s a very nice person, he’s not going to explode an other innocent man’s insides over a somewhat minor difference in power normally.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Can they survive being blown up by 5-C explosions?

Superbly shattered his hand when attempting to punch Superman's brain and Superman has survived without his heart before as long as he has constant sunlight exposure.

Something attacking his organs isn't really an auto win move.

As for the thread Luffy has no resistance to Superman frost breath. So that's actually a rather big point to consider.

 

[Arcker123]

Superbly shattered his hand when attempting to punch Superman's brain and Superman has survived without his heart before as long as he has constant sunlight exposure.

Something attacking his organs isn't really an auto win move.

That's not really the same thing as having the organs themselves internally explode due to having Haki pushed into them.

As for the thread Luffy has no resistance to Superman frost breath. So that's actually a rather big point to consider.

He has resistances to cold temp on profile, can you show why Frost Breath is superior to that.

Precog would just help him dodge anyway.

Except he’s used it once and it was against a prick. He’s a very nice person, he’s not going to explode an other innocent man’s insides over a somewhat minor difference in power normally.

Lack of evidence isn't evidence of abscence. Just because he hasn't been shown doing it to a nice person isn't proof he wouldn't in this scenario.

I have better reason to think he would than wouldn't.

 

[That_moron2]

As for the thread Luffy has no resistance to Superman frost breath. So that's actually a rather big point to consider.

I don't think that's ever connecting.

 

[Qawsedf234]

That's not really the same thing as having the organs themselves internally explode due to having Haki pushed into them.

Can you demonstrate how that works?

He has resistances to cold temp on profile,

He has resistance to -50C. Superman's breath can freeze river chunks and magma

Precog would just help him dodge anyway.

Speed is equalized and Freeze breath has a range spanning multiple miles. Precog isn't helping him dodge.

 

[Arcker123]

Can you demonstrate how that works?

• Durability Negation and Explosion Manipulation (Can force energy inside of opponents and objects, which produces explosions inside of their body[43])

This is what's on the page. Luffy's Buso forces Haki into your internal organs and body and makes them implode internally.

He has resistance to -50C. Superman's breath can freeze river chunks and magma

Eh, Luffy's resistance scales to Punk Hazard which has similar feats.

Aokiji's remnant cold and ice on the island was able to freeze the magma half and freeze the rivers on the island (Chapter 659),

 

[That_moron2]

Speed is equalized and Freeze breath has a range spanning multiple miles. Precog isn't helping him dodge.

Gear 5 Luffy can fly and also rubberize intangible objects like lightning. Couldn't he turn the air into rubber and it would just freeze itself?

 

[Arcker123]

^ That's also true.

Luffy can also use advanced Buso to reflect it away with emission.