Change ''dimension'' to ''space-time'' in Naruto articles.

[Dariel_Senju]

A small thread to clarify that Naruto articles should replace the word dimension with space-time , this due to two things: the first is to follow the guideline of the article of this wiki referring to dimensions where they stipulate that using this term to refer to universes, pocket universes, realms, worlds, or realities, etc. is incorrect.

Second because in Naruto they never use that word to refer to the different worlds we see in the series like those of Kaguya, Obito, Momoshiki, etc. The word they use in Naruto to refer to them is µÖéþ®║Úûô (Jikükan) whose correct translation as you can imagine is space-time; although with any online translator you can get its meaning to make sure completely, I made a query with the language brigade, thanks to Plover-Y a native speaker of japanese for taking the petitio.

I also leave a series of panels from different parts of the series where the kanji mentioned above is used to refer to these places at all times:

Anyway the Japanese word for dimension is not that but µ¼íÕàâ (Jigen) so the terminology used in Naruto to refer to the mentioned places never contained the word dimension. Although this term has been used in other contexts, as these two where Temari and Sakura use it to refer to something is in another dimension to be something far superior to them.

(Chapter 560, pages 16-17)

(Chapter 666, pages 7)

It is interesting to see how Kishimoto dominates enough of these things so as not to refer to those places using the wrong term. Well you will already say, although both the rules of the site and proof shown so this is just a formality, as well as for it to be a record of why the change was made.

 

[Antvasima]

Can you give examples of phrasings that you wish to change?

 

[Dariel_Senju]

Of course here are some with the profile of Kaguya:

Teleportation (Can transport herself and others between her dimensions)

to

Teleportation (Can transport herself and others between her diferents space-time)

At least several kilometers/cross-dimensional

to

At least several kilometers/cross space-time

Amenominaka (Õñ® õ╣ï Õ¥í õ©¡, Heavenly Governing Inside): By using her third eye, Kaguya is able to teleport herself and without a certain range to one of her dimensions. Those affected by this technique are caught completely off guard, as it occurs instantly. She can position those teleports into various hazards to these dimensions, such as encasing them in blocks of ice or directly above rivers of lava. When Kaguya or her targets teleports into a separate dimension, they become impossible to detect by normal means or even by the presence of one's chakra unless a bridge in space-time is forcibly created between one dimension and the next.

to

Amenominaka (Õñ® õ╣ï Õ¥í õ©¡, Heavenly Governing Inside): By using her third eye, Kaguya is able to teleport herself and without a certain range to one of her diferents space-time. Those affected by this technique are caught completely off guard, as it occurs instantly. She can position those teleports into various hazards to these space-time, such as encasing them in blocks of ice or directly above rivers of lava. When Kaguya or her targets teleports into a separate space-time, they become impossible to detect by normal means or even by the presence of one's chakra unless a bridge in space-time is forcibly created between one space-time and the next.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

I don't see anything wrong with this, just fixing the discription.

 

[Dariel_Senju]

Okay, if there is no staff that disagrees with this then they should only proceed to make the changes in view of the fact that the majority of Naruto articles that need to be modified are protected like Obito and Kaguya.

 

[Antvasima]

I suppose that this should be fine, as long as you take care to fix the grammar.

 

[Dariel_Senju]

It seems reasonable.

 

[Antvasima]

Is anybody willing to perform the changes, and if so, which pages need to be adjusted?

 

[Dariel_Senju]

Hatake_Kakashi (This should be renamed to Kakashi Hatake)

Tobirama_Senju

Minato_Namikaze

Obito_Uchiha

Uchiha_Madara

Momoshiki_Ōtsutsuki

Kaguya_Ōtsutsuki

Boruto_Uzumaki

It would be necessary to add to the equation to Sasuke Uchiha who owns techniques that can manipulate the space-time and to Kinshiki Ōtsutsuki that has a technique with which to travel between the different space-time.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, on second thought, the problem here is that your suggestions above sound weird in English, despite that they are correct in Japanese. I am not sure if this is a good idea, and would prefer more staff input, with suggestions.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Ant

The types of ninjutsu described in this manner are explicitly referred to as Space-Time Ninjutsu in both the original and English release.

However, it should be clarified that the majority of characters (i.e. Tobirama and Minato, who use the Flying Thunder God Technique) can't twist time and space the way people like Obito can.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, the way Dariel words the changes still sounds grammatically inappropriate in English, but perhaps you would be willing to handle them instead?

 

[Dariel_Senju]

Certainly the word dimension sounds and fits better to use it, but unfortunately it is the wrong word even though I have not managed to get used to the change for term space-time.

But, Viz herself uses the term space-time on most occasions in which translates the word.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ls5v0nwf_...Pxg_HCgJ2JwIqfAFpg70YQCHM/s16000/0597-007.png

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-FvndRO0Mx...NL0_nel9bFV1DCZInha4lQCHM/s16000/0597-009.png

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-MIBLPaaKm...RPAMWLWK7vtoICcbDUrZMQCHM/s16000/0597-010.png

 

[Promestein]

Why does the exact translation matter? The meaning doesn't change

 

[Reppuzan]

Prom does have a point. Even if we change the wording, the actual intent and purpose is still clear and exactly the same. So it might just be unnecessary work.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Also, editing it to space-times might give the impression that these are universe-sized continuums. Which isn't the case.

 

[Joseph619]

I agree with Prom and Repp. This is unnecessary, in this case space-time implies the same as dimensions. No need to go into semantics

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I suppose that this is unnecessary then.

 

[Dariel_Senju]

The point is that in the own rules of this site, using the term dimension to refer to the worlds seen in Naruto is a non-acceptable use of the term. In addition to the fact that the word itself is far from meaning dimension, I don't understand why we should continue to use it only for convenience.

It also matters because as a source of information we are managing incorrect or inaccurate data, it is failing with the objective we are looking for. Besides that the term dimension in itself is misinterpreted as it does not reflect what these worlds seen, which can be of a size ranging from containing an unknown amount of geometric figures like the Kamui or to contain a planet like the of Kaguya.

As for what Matt says, that is something that can easily be solved with a note in articles that include the term, because although people can understand anything the word doesn't mean that they must have the size of a universe like our.

And the concern for grammar is the least, what is sought is to have accurate information not to be beautiful the words LoL, use the term dimension will only continue to spread the misuse of it.

In some cases, to avoid repeating so much space-time, the word spatiotemporal can be used.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, we should preferably try to find alternatives to the word dimension when possible, such as pocket universe or pocket reality, but the profiles in question would look strange if we inserted the word space-time into them so much, and it can easily be misunderstood as far more impressive than it really is, in terms of scale.

 

[Dariel_Senju]

An alternative word that can be used is "world" (õ©ûþòî, Sekai) since within the Narutoverse they refer to said places in that way. The word itself has several meanings but people unconsciously associate it with a planet, when in reality it has several meanings, and if what they seek is to avoid associating said places with the term universe then it is foreseeable that they you will not use that term that it also means universe in all languages. That's why from the beginning, for the purposes that search in this wiki, the term space-time is preferable.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

Technically, these various Dimensions do exist outside of the Main Naruto Universes Space-Time continuum. Not in that they are seperate universes, but that they actually exist outside of the universes 4 main dimensions (Space and Time).

That said, leaving as is is fine. They are different dimensions.

 

[Dariel_Senju]

In a certain part it is as you say, it does not mean that said places are universes but it is a certainty that they exist outside the main universe of Naruto.

But technically the term dimension is incorrect, those places are four-dimensional space like Naruto's, they are formed by dimensions but they aren't a dimension in the strict sense of the word, the article on dimension in this site stipulates that it shouldn't be used to refer to places like that, from there it's wrong to use it. If it shouldn't be used by the rules of the site and to top it all, they never refer to such places in that way, Why is the word chosen by the author not used to refer to them and is it left an inappropriate term?

 

[Antvasima]

Perhaps we could use "pocket universe" or "pocket reality" instead?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

I really dont see any reason to change them either

 

[Antvasima]

Well, Dariel is correct in that "dimension" is technically an incorrect term for this. However, sometimes it is hard to find an appropriate replacement word.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

If this is the case, then just use the terminology in Naruto, the, "Space-Time" and have a note on the Verses Page to clear things up.

That's really the only option. Using "Pocket Universe" or "Pocket Reality" sounds vastly more overblown than simply "Space-Time".

 

[Antvasima]

Space and time are actual concepts, not small pocket realities, and the word does not fit in English.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

Then if it's a hassle, keep "Dimensions" but note that what they are have been discussed and that we decided to keep the current terminology. While what Dariel is saying is true, a solution isn't easily obtained. Most mods prefer to keep as is as it gets the point across on a basic level.

Pocket Universe/Reality does sound overblown, I'm sure most would agree to that.

I propose keeping the current terminology, but have a note on the verse page and the pages of People like Kaguya and Obito, etc. That notes the realms have been discussed, we decided to keep the "Dimension" terminology as it's less confusing and doesn't overstate the Verses capacity in any way and have a link to this thread where it was discussed.

 

[Antvasima]

That may be an idea. I am open for suggestions regarding how to word such a note.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I really don't see the problem with "Pocket dimension" being used. It's a simple term in fiction.

 

[Antvasima]

I suppose that it would not cause any harm, as long as visitors understand what is intended.

We discouraged using the word "dimension" incorrectly long ago, while the current tiering system was new, in order to avoid confusion with spatial dimensions. It is likely not as important anymore.

 

[Dariel_Senju]

Well then I don't see problem with it, in science fiction and fantasy, the term dimension doesn't correspond to what it really is and in this case, since it is so popular to call these places dimension that is fine.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. So should we close this thread?