Clarification on LS standards

[AlipheeseXIV]

Last week, it was brought to my attention that higher dimensional characters don't qualify for immeasurable LS anymore. I did some research, and came across this immeasurable LS Zamasu CRT from awhile back, which then lead to this staff CRT that resulted in changing the LS standards to what we have today (please don't make me link it, making CRT's even QnA ones on mobile sucks really damn bad and this has already taken like 30m lol) anyways, as a result it seems that higher dimensional characters no longer automatically qualify for immeasurable LS, the question is why?

For starters, it was never actually clearly stated or brought up in that thread that characaters made up of 4 or more spatial dimensions wouldn't have immeasurable LS. It doesn't help that the writing up of immeasurable LS (using terms like qualtiative superiority) is incredibly dubious due to how loosely the term was used back then compared to now, where it is almost exclusively used to refer to characters who have R>F/are 1A, back then the term was used to describe any character with a proper n+1 superiority over another.

The CRT also focused on a very specific case of a characater (Infinite Zamasu) becoming a living spacetime continuum, which is vastly different than a character being made up of 4 or more spatial dimensions, as spacetime inherently doesn't have actual mass and thus, on it's own wouldn't qualify for this tier of LS which Ultima already explained back then. This brings us to the purpose of the thread, what about characters who are made up of 4 or more spatial dimensions and have arms and legs? Why wouldn't they have immeasurable LS?

If 4 spatial dimensions is not enough, then how many would you need to qualify for it? I think such cases should give immeasurable LS by default since they are much closer to how a real human who weighs say...180 pounds would need to be able to lift up their own weight, and obviously a normal person wouldn't be able to move if you suddenly made them weigh 5000 pounds, but idk I'm not a math guy. I want to see what people have to say here, and hope some staff can answer even to get a consensus on this.

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

Bump

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

Bump

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

Bump

 

[Antvasima]

@FinePoint @LephyrTheRevanchist

What do you think about this?

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

This brings us to the purpose of the thread, what about characters who are made up of 4 or more spatial dimensions and have arms and legs? Why wouldn't they have immeasurable LS?

No, they wouldn't. The FAQ kinda explains why here:

For example: Mass is a quantity that is detached from the dimension of the object which it is inherent to, and unlike volume is not divided in units corresponding to each particular dimension (1-volume [length], 2-volume [area], 3-volume, 4-volume...). It is singular in nature and its units equally apply to all dimensions; whether it is distributed over an area or a volume only tells us about the span of space in which it is spread, not about the quantity itself.

The lifting page just fails to accurately explain what we actually note as immeasurable lifting strength, which is not any random object of 4-D or more dimensions, but those objects that are also of a significant size, which we then define in the Tiering System page:

4-dimensional spacetime continuums of universal size, but this can be generalized to any 4-dimensional structure of a similar scope.

The FAQ ties it back together fully:

One of the more straightforward ways to qualify for Tier 2 and up through higher dimensions is by affecting whole higher-dimensional universes which can embed the whole of lower-dimensional ones within themselves.

What this means in essence, is that any object of more than 3 dimensions need to also be of significant size (universal, or at the least to show that it can embed a lower dimensional space of significant size in itself) to receive any upgrade, AP-wise or Lifting-wise.

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

The FAQ ties it back together fully:


What this means in essence, is that any object of more than 3 dimensions need to also be of significant size (universal, or at the least to show that it can embed a lower dimensional space of significant size in itself) to receive any upgrade, AP-wise or Lifting-wise.

Oh okay, so basically as long as the spatial dimension is significant characters can qualify for immeasurable LS through that? Another question then, what if the spatial dimension is of insignificant size but there are an incredibly large number of them? To use an example let's say there are 1 million, how would we rate this?

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Oh okay, so basically as long as the spatial dimension is significant characters can qualify for immeasurable LS through that? Another question then, what if the spatial dimension is of insignificant size but there are an incredibly large number of them? To use an example let's say there are 1 million, how would we rate this?

Read the following in the FAQ, as that would answer the portion of a large number of dimensional spaces.

If these spaces have, say, the mass of a planet (by virtue of holding a planet inside for example), then it would be "planetary mass x 1,000,000". So on and so forth.

Though I may be mistaken on that, so I will tag someone more trustworthy than me in the topic: @Qawsedf234

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

Read the following in the FAQ, as that would answer the portion of a large number of dimensional spaces.

If these spaces have, say, the mass of a planet (by virtue of holding a planet inside for example), then it would be "planetary mass x 1,000,000". So on and so forth.

I really suck at understanding that kind of stuff but based off what you're saying, I believe I get the gist just one more thing. How exactly would you find the mass of these spaces to say (at least in this example) that they would be "planetary" or what have you? Is simply holding such things within itself all that's required?

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Is simply holding such things within itself all that's required?

Indeed. Or the fiction somehow just assigns such mass to the space. (Clear statement or mechanism)

 

[Qawsedf234]

Though I may be mistaken on that, so I will tag someone more trustworthy than me in the topic

For spheres tbe scale isn't exactly linear. You can see a chart and formula here.

So say you have a 2 meter ball:

• 3D: 4/3 * pi * 2^3 = 33.51 m^3
• 4D: (pi^2 / 2) * 2^4 = 78.97 m^4

Now the issue becomes.... well we don't know how dense an object is for a hypervolume. Yiu can't use 2.8g per cubic cm for a tesseract cm because they're two different statistics. You can make assumptions, like taking a 3-Dimensional slice of the 4-D object and then multiply it out, but you'd be on a shaky mathematical grounds.

 

[AlipheeseXIV]

Makes sense, I appreciate you guys for both your responses and thanks Ant for mentioning them.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Thank you, Qaws

Since the question was answered, I will be closing this now