Cloud vs Ganon

[Schnee_One]

Last time on LoZ vs FF7, Cloud stomped Link due to the AP gap. Without that Gap being relevant anymore thanks to regen, let's see if SOMEONE in LoZ can beat Cloud.

Versions and Speed are obvious.

Ganondorf:

Cloud Strife:

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Might be important to conclude this lol

If this goes through, Cloud can't kill Ganon despite being able to one shot, all his attempts to transmute him will result in Ganon reforming his body, and would need death hax to permanently put him down, but Ganon's more likely to transmute, possess, or BFR before Cloud does that, especially with him getting one-shot and realizing he has to use alternate methods.

 

[Schnee_One]

If it doesn't go through?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Then Clood for pretty much the same reasons as Link. Immense AP advantage.

 

[Arrogant_Schmuck]

I thought AP didn't matter against an opponent with Godly regen?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Ganon's (current) regen has an immense caveat (if done quickly instead over a long period of time), where he pretty much loses everything that makes him OP and turns him into a mindless berserker.

If my thread goes through, said caveat disappears, and not only that, but even more may even come from it.

 

[Arrogant_Schmuck]

Oh

 

[TartaChocholate]

Cloud is resistant to BFR, Transmutation and incredibly so to Mind Manipulation though; as well as that Sephiroth's control of his body was through the Jenova Cells inside Cloud, hence the whole "puppet" analogy, by the end of the game Cloud had become strong enough to resist all that. Ganondorf is by no means unintelligent but I do think it will take him a while to figure out what of his arsenal works and what doesn't given Cloud's resistances.

Say, I have some questions:

-Is Ganondorf resistant to all of Cloud's status effects or Cloud has some hax that actually can help him? His page doesn't seem to list them and Cal's thread argues a minor time manipulation resistance. By extension, could he be petrified or worn down by poison for example? (Bio poisons, Freeze inflicts Stop, Break Petrifies, Cross Slash Paralyzes, etc.)

-Does Cloud's Finishing Touch insta death effect work here?

-Does Cloud's Manipulate ability get resisted? It's a command that lets him take control of enemies, the formula works depending on how much weaker is the enemy in terms of LV. What about his Remove spell (Cloud's own BFR)?

-Can Cloud use summons? This is actually important in a way: Hades deals many status effects (100% Poison, Confuse, Sleep, Paralyze, Toad, Mini, Silence and Slow unless resisted) Odin can Instant Kill, Alexander deals Holy Damage, among other things.

Cloud can add Death's effect to his normal attacks via the Added Effect + Destruct/Odin Materia combo, as well. Elemental + Alexander effectively turns any of his swords into a holy weapon

 

[ToscanitoHarsh]

Soooooo... how did it go? The regen revision proposal I mean? Because that essentially leaves two options: If not aproved it's a stomp in Cloud's favor due to AP difference. If it is approved then it would be inconclusive most likely since Cloud can't put Ganondorf down for good and Ganondorf can't really do anything to Cloud.

Though... as @TartaChocholate says, Cloud can add the Death Spell effect to his weapons via the combo he mentioned and turn his swords into holy weapons with Alexander, though with the Elemental Support Materia not the Added Effect. And both effects can be put together if the weapon has enough materia slots. And, IIRC, the Sense skill from the Command Materia does reveal to Cloud the enemy stats and their weaknesses. So it's not unlikely that if Ganondorf restores himself back Cloud would take a look with said skill to know more about what he's facing.

Of course, it depends if the setup is allowed and all that.

Kinda like:

-Cloud: Strife Delivery Service. We brought the evil matter you ordered for your evil plans of great evilness.

-Ganondorf: Ah...at last. You've served me well, but unfortunately your services are no longer needed. And I do not waste time keeping things I have no use for. So, I will be generous and do you a favour *charges dark magic* Any last words?

-Cloud: Not interested.

• CLANK*

-Cloud: No hard feel-

• Ganondorf reforms from a pool of liquid metal*

-Cloud: ...Huh...

-Ganondorf: *Evil laugh* Naive fool. Heroes and kings have fallen before me! What could a simple delivery boy do?

-Cloud: ...*Uses sense Materia*

Name: Ganondorf - The King of Evil

Level: Pretty High

Power: Not to be triffled with

Magic: You wouldn't believe it

Evilness: Ohohoho, where do we begin?

Sexyness: Look at dem muscles

Weaknesses: Holy, Death

-Cloud: *Eye Glint* Let's mosey.

Yeah, a sorry attempt to be funny. I apologize =P

 

[Schnee_One]

It was accepted, 1 for Ganon

 

[TriforcePower1]

Would death manip work against a guy with immortality type 4?

 

[Schnee_One]

Death is meant to be soul destruction so yes

 

[TriforcePower1]

Doesn't Ganon resist soul manip?

 

[Schnee_One]

Death Manipulation and Soul Manipulation aren't the same just because they work on the same level

 

[TriforcePower1]

If "death manipulation" affects souls, then it's resisted by who resist having their souls affected.

 

[Schnee_One]

Affecting souls in a different manner would require resistance to them.

Getting your soul absorbed and resisting it doesn't mean you can resist your soul dying

 

[TriforcePower1]

Okay, how exactly does Cloud's death manip work?

 

[Schnee_One]

He goes "Blegh" and you're soul dies

 

[TriforcePower1]

Does the soul dies or it gets crushed? Because Ganon regenerated from the second one.

 

[Schnee_One]

Dies

 

[TartaChocholate]

Well, for me it depends on a couple of things. I know it's a bit of a pain given my long posts (I apologize for that, btw) but I need to know the answer to my previous questions to be sure.

That said, Cloud can use the Death spell or make himself a holy weapon with the Death Effect with materia combination (Alexander - Elemental, and Destruct - Added Effect, and Luck Plus materia ensures it works all the time). There's also the Sense command which does reveal information and weaknesses of the enemies, Cloud (and players) likely use it when they see something fishy with enemies (like Ganon popping fine and dandy after being killed) or even right away.

I guess Cloud having more specific combinations is fair if he's facing a composite character. For now I'll go with Cloud.

 

[TriforcePower1]

Dies

Then the soul survives via the fact that the thing granting him immortality is connected to his soul.

 

[ToscanitoHarsh]

Hey, found something interesting, maybe it counts for something:

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Ghost_Ship

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Ghost_(Final_Fantasy_VII)

https://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Soul_Fire

https://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Gi_Nattak (Why him counts? Red the small story section: https://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Cave_of_the_Gi)

These are enemies you encounter in FFVII, Cloud can actually hurt them with attacks and magic (and hax them), and even destroy the first two the Death Spell and other Instant Death effects (except for Soul Fire and Gi Nattak because Bosses have to resist most Status Effects). There are more ghostly and spiritual looking enemies, but these are the ones that more or less seem surely so. Gi Nattak is explicitely created by the souls of a deceased tribe.

In another thing, assuming Cloud *can* actually hurt spiritual enemies and disembodied souls, could Cloud hax Ganon with suff he doesn't resist? Was checking his profile and it doesn't say he resists Confusion, Poison, Silence, Paralysis, Berserk, Petrification and only has a limited Time resistance. So kinda like, kill Ganon and cast Stop on his soul, in the case Death doesn't do away with the Soul Altogether or simply strike the Soul with Death again.

EDIT: Ganondorf's abilities section needs a cleanup, a couple of things are mentioned twice.