Dark Schneider VS Super Janemba

[VegetoSSJ3]

First post here and decided to make this match up.

Round 1: Majin Dark Schneider VS Base Form Janemba

Round 2: Dragon Knight Lucifer VS Super Janemba

I won't equalized speed, because that strips a crucial aspect of debating. Hopefully, we can discuss for entertainment and avoid heated messages. It's just fiction, after all.



Dark Schneider:

Janemba:

Inconclusive:

 

[VegetoSSJ3]

Bump

 

[NathanN36]

Round 1: I'll go for DS because I don't see base form Janemba being able to kill DS while DS can EE base form Janemba.

Round 2: How powerful is Super Janemba dimension slash? Can it attack him on three different planes? DS can EE Super Janemba.

 

[VegetoSSJ3]

Iirc dimension slash negates durability

I'm neutral about this match up, as it could go either way imo

 

[NathanN36]

I know that the first round goes to Darsh since Janemba is basically like a baby and didn't show much when fighting against Goku so I'll mainly go with Darsh for EE on the first round.

Second round is a different story. But idk if the dimension slash can bypass Drash's type 9 immortality(does it bypass Dispel Bound?), but if it does then Super Janemba has a chance of winning as long as he can get a hit on Darsh. Idk how fast Super Janemba is but he needs to be fast to use that attack on Darsh or else Darsh can just dodge it and just EE.

Here's a link https://forums.spacebattles.com/thr...-dispel-break-dispel-bound-with-magic.535363/ there's a scan shown from Bastard!! that describles more about Dispel Bound... So it needs to bypass Dispel Bound first then his type 9 immortality to kill Darsh.

"Dispel Bound: The ultimate defensive ability, made up of layer after layer of innumerable forcefields, each protecting Dark Schneider from a certain form of attack, including mental attacks, instant victory effects, and reality warping. While powerful, these forcefields can be easily destroyed by those significantly stronger than Darsh, and can be torn away by those on his level, but they regenerate quickly.." -from Dark Schneider Notable Attacks / Techniques page

 

[NathanN36]

Actually after looking a bit more into Darsh, he outhaxs Janemba... I think this is a stomp for Darsh.

 

[SSJRyu1]

Given Janemba is a being made of souls and spiritual dark energy, who can control said energy, he should be able to kill DS here. It makes sense to given characters much weaker like Kami, the past Kamis, King Piccolo and his clan, Garlick Jr. etc. can all attack souls in various ways, and basic ki blasts from Kid Buu could also kill the souls in other world, so attacking souls is nothing new in DB.

Janemba is faster by far, (Way over 7,000 times ftl for DS vs Way over 4 quadrillion times ftl for Janemba), and speed not equal makes him blitz DS, and he is higher on the galaxy level scale, nearly reaching to multi-galaxy level (although imo he is actually well into 3-B, but whatever).

Given he has soul manipulation, is faster and stronger and DB characters are known for being able to kill guys with Regenerationn like Buu and Cell (Goku and Vegito both said they could kill Buu), and dimension sword outright ignoring durability, I am actually going to say Janemba has the tools to win consistently with a blitz before DS can use his offensive hax, the power to bust open all the dispel bounds at once like Uriel did, and the soul manipulation to actually put DS down for good.

DS has some hax that could potentially beat Janemba like the Judas Priest skill, but Janemba resists soul manip and has more durability so even that's questionable. Also DS will not likely ever hit him even if Janemba couldn't put him down right away, so at best even if you say DS can take anything he dishes out, it will be Janemba wailing on him till DS tires from using the Judas Pain and taking the damage, reverts back to base and gets slaughtered or sealed like Yemma imo.

 

[NathanN36]

I didn't know that Janemba was that much faster than Darsh... So stardust breaker was a soul attack, I thought it was a powerful energy attack rip Darsh. I think EE can do something right? But if Darsh can't react to Janemba's speed than it's useless.

 

[SSJRyu1]

EE may work, but its more like a combo of soul attacking and standard physical attacking on a atomic level, so since Janemba resists soul manip and has higher durability and can take ki attacks that could destroy even Buu desptie his regen I would say it is iffy whether Judas Priest would actually even beat Janemba if it hit, which it won't most likely due to the speed gap.

Best case for DS he lasts with regen till he reverts to base and then gets crushed, worst case janemba can outright kill him since imo Janemba could kill souls llike Buu was going to, and from the fact he controls spiritual energy and is a spiritual being.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

... okay, how in the actual hell could Janemba kill a guy with Low Godly that needs his body, mind and soul destroyed at the same time while all of these are in different dimensions?

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Unless that regen or that requirement for killing is is only in one very specific key(which is not hinted at all and makes me remember that I really think Schneider could use with a little update to separate his powers for each key), Janemba can do squat in all versions,

 

[SSJRyu1]

Kid Buu died due to being destroyed completly as well as being purified, so not quite standard attack. Also Buu is smoke and regens, indicating a chemical reaction which occurs at least at the molecular level, so pretty close to the atomic level. And its been said in multiple sources that the ki attacks can reduce beings to atoms, so them being atomic level is pretty consistent. Not to mention those levels of energy according to science would easily split atoms to anyway.

https://imgur.com/a/qKC5u0M

Janemba can destroy souls, and can make portals as well if he really needed to to other dimesnions. And even if it didn't work DS will never hit him and eventually revert to base and be killed or sealed like Yamma was then for a incap victory in Janembas favor. Judas Priest might or might not work if it hit but it never will hit imo.

So I still say Janmeba wins, either through a blitz at the start, or after DS tires out and reverts then gets killed and or sealed.

 

[SSJRyu1]

Also I forgot, Janemba can copy people and their skills, if he copies Judas Priest or another attack that hits all areas of DS he wins for sure due to superior AP and speed on it, so there is another possible win con.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

... Low Godly is literally regenerating from your soul, so that is quite literally inconsequential. Janemba can do actual nothing to put him down permanently.

He never destroyed souls, so stop lying please. I don't remember this happening once, and even his own profile gives him soul manipulation only because he's an amalgamatio of countless souls. And could you actually explain in literally anyway why it wouldn't hit when you haven't explained this?

Oh no, Janemba gets so outdone here is not even funny.

 

[SSJRyu1]

This is not speed equal, even if DS became a billion times faster than his base janemba still blitzes, DS will never hit him and will burn out using Judas Pain eventually so that alone prevents DS from winning.

Kid Buu was going to destroy Grand Kais world and kill all the dead people there, Piccolo was at one point in GT in other world and attacks and hurts the souls to get sent to hell, also Janemba nulls Yamma's soul manip powers to and is himself in control of spiritual energy which he is made up of, he is also possesing the ogre showing soul manip there to. Logically he can attack souls as can any ki user. I dont generaly lie, you may disagree but I always back up my points with actual evidence.

Also if Janemba can copy DS skills which can definatly kill DS he will win with superior speed and AP.

Janmeba has this match imo since he likely can kill DS and will never get hit, and if he can't he seals him when DS reverts to base.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

If its a blitz it is a stomp, meaning it can't be even added and there's nothing to debate. It would just be Janemba infinitely wailing on him while Schneider can't die.

One, kid buu isn't Janemba. Two, killing a ghost doesn't give you soul destruction, that's just non-physical interaction... if we decide to completely forget that souls can interact with normal people without a single problem. If you think it should, kindly feel free to do a CRT to add that to Janemba. Not to mention the fact he was MADE as an aggregate of countless souls, he didn't CONTROL them. He stripped Yenma of his power, but never controlled the souls himself. Or do you think 17 can interact with Frieza in the tournament of power because he has ki... despite the fact he actually has no ki? And even if we assumed he did have soul manipulation, which he doesn't, we wouldn't assume he can do what he has never shown to do. Manipulating souls doesn't instantly equate to the ability to destroy them.

... Also, where did you get he could copy his skill?

 

[NathanN36]

I think he interpreted from when Goku was going against base form Janemba and made a copy Goku that was about to fired a kamehameha back to Goku. But that doesn't mean that Janemba can copy skills tho.

 

[SSJRyu1]

I never said it was or wasn't a stomp. Janemba will either be able to kill him, copy his skill to win, or wail on him until he revets and gets sealed. But Darsh will not likely ever be able to hit Janemba.

Kid Buu uses basic ki blasts to do this that anybody can, no special skills and Janemba is stronger so it scales. Killing ghosts does give you soul manip as well as they are souls. And Piccolo was with the white non corporeal souls as opposed to bodies in his case hurting them with ki blasts. Beerus already got the soul destruction ability for attacking a similar soul, albeit he literally erases them as opposed to brute force killing them.

The copy skill is on his profile so should apply, it comes from when he makes a copy of Goku and makes it use kamehameha. Considering Janemba is strogner than DS, and has used the ability before, and DS magic can be learned, there is a good chance he can do the same with him.

Either way the speed is the killer though in this.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

I know you didn't, I am just saying it is because the speed difference leaves Schneider unable to do anything, so unless we equalize speed this is just a stomp and there's not much else to be done. And he doesn't revert...? He's not in some limited time transformation or something.

It doesn't, feel free to check literally anywhere in here or ask anyone knowledgeable. It doesn't give you soul destruction when the ghost can just die from normal attacks. Beerus gets the ability because Hakai destroys everything. You don't just get erased then your soul flies away to heaven, it gets erased too. Hurting and killing a dead person with normal attacks is just non physical interaction, destroying a soul without needing to "deal damage" or by destroying someone's soul even while they are alive IS soul destruction. Again, either get a CRT for Janemba done or it doesn't matter.

Except Janemba learns no skills, so you got that completely wrong. And he only did that once, only to counter Goku's attack, and then after never even attempts doing that again.

 

[SSJRyu1]

Its stated Kid Buu was pure evil and Goku turned him to Uub as a reincarnation that was good cleansing his soul, also the spirit bomb is effective against evil implying it targets evil enrgy. So its implied, but not really that important to the debate anyway.

Janemba is borderline multi galaxy, DS is low end galaxy level as Majin, Janemba is literally at least hundreds of times his power. So the power gap is huge. The speed gap is even larger though.

Janemba doesnt directly destroy a soul, he is made of spiritual energy, seals away the soul manip powers of Yamma and scales to Buu who was going to kill the dead fighters on grand kais planet, as well as Piccolo who in GT was shown to blast the white souls with energy attacks and harm them in order to get sent to Hell. So he can harm souls. Also he can make portals so being in another dimesnion won't likely stop Janemba.

Janemba easily copies Goku's body and kamehameha, and DS is weaker than Janemba and his spells can be learned by others, so it is not a stretch to say Janemba could potentially copy his abilities, even just one like judas priest would be enough since DS isn't dodging Janemba and Janemba would easily one shot all the dispel bounds like Uriel did due to superior power.

All in all I stand by Janemba likely can kill DS outright, but if he can't he could also potentially copy DS skill and kill him with that+superior power and speed, or worst case he just blitzes DS and never gets hit until DS reverts to base from fatigue due to judas pain and continuos damage, and is sealed liek Yamma.

 

[NathanN36]

How much faster is Janemba compared to Darsh btw?

 

[SSJRyu1]

Nah in this case those ghosts Piccolo damaged are spirits with no body, it is made clear that they have no body when its specified that only special individuals get a body, and a similar ghost from DBS being attacked was used as proof for both non physical interaction and soul destruction for Beerus, so it should apply here to, so that is the ability to damage souls for sure. Also the fact your soul is gone if you are killed by Buu is definatly the ability to destroy souls.

Either way see above, Janemba never gets hit so hes not losing, DS spells still take time and have to actually hit the foe. Even thought based ones he would be blitzed before he can think tbh with that gap.

I stand by Janemba likely winning by killing DS soul spirit and body, and if not via copying his skill, and if not then via tiring DS out due to the strain of Judas Pain and continuous damage then sealing him and his powers like Yamma.

Regardles ive made the points I want to, even if you don't agree that janemba can outright kill DS, he definatly isn't gonna be hit and can still potentially copy DS ability even as a counter, or seal him after fatiguing him, or possibly even outright due to superior power.

 

[SSJRyu1]

Janemba is literally trillions of times as fast as Darsh going by the quantifiable feats they have.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Goku never did that, Janemba naturally reincarnated after he was killed. Goku had no part in it, he just wished he could be a good guy so he could fight him again without death of the planet on the line.

The speed gap is irrelevant because without speed equal, this is still just a stomp and the match can be made. Either we argue stuff in speed equal, or we don't argue at all because Schneider can do nothing and the match can't be added. And the power gap is... more or less pointless when Schneider can just kill him with hax.

He scales to nothing because neither Buu nor anyone else can destroy souls. Again, that's just non phy... actually its not even non physical interaction because souls in dragon ball can just interact with stuff normally. Like Goku when he visited, unless you wanna say Bulma has ki. And it will stop him when he has no clue where they are, has never teleported to another dimension, and he needs to destroy ALL of them at the same time.

Not really when Schneider can just counter the spell and Janemba only ever used the technique to counter Goku's technique, never to attack him, and the clone just puffed right after.

No, you are just stating misconceptions about stuff he doesn't have in his profile and is obviously not accepted. Keep in mind, again, the notorious fact that Beerus has soul destruction only with Hakai, and with nothing else. If you wish to argue that, make a CRT because Janemba doesn't have that and what he does obviously isn't enough because people have been able to combat souls forever (like Janemba fighting Goku when he comes to Earth for one day) yet that has never been accepted.

 

[C2_of_Omegon]

There's also the fact that Janemba copied a ki based technique. Not magic, which IIRC, is what Darsh uses. Magic and Ki are two seperate things in Dragon Ball.

Speed unequal is a stomp. Speed equal is a stomp. The entire match is just a stomp, I doesn't matter for whom.

 

[SSJRyu1]

The OP specifically said that speed is not equal. And as you admit that makes Janemba the winner in that case when we don't handicap him due to speed alone.

Bulma does have ki, everybody does, even farmer with shotgun had a ki signature and PL of 5. He does scale, Piccolo harms no body souls, that is clearly the ability to harm souls. Kid Buu can kill dead people and they cease to exist including the soul if he does, sounds like the ability to destroy souls. Also Janemba is literally spiritual energy which he controls.

We know Janmeba can warp all around other world, and we know anybody Buu level and up can use vice shout to go to other dimesnions. Its even on the profiles. So he can.

DS can't counter Janemba when Janemba is WAY faster and strogner. So if Janemba uses a Judas Priest DS will be unable to stop him for sure even if it's just one. And Uriel literally busts all DS dispel bounds at once with one energy blast when he transforms, so Janemba can most likely do the same due to the power diffrence.

Even if Janemba can't kill souls (which he can) He still isnt being hit and still could potentially copy DS skill or seal DS for a win con so I am definatly voting Janemba. With speed equal it may be diffrent but with the speed advantage there is no way janemba is getting tagged or missing.

Anyhow I have stuff to do, I said what I wanna say and even you agree as the thread stands, without Janemba being handicapped in speed he blitzes and wins, so im happy we can agree on that and I will leave it at that.

 

[NathanN36]

The speed was unequal would it be a stomp due to incapping Darsh? Because I don't see Janemba being able to kill Darsh.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

... Do you actually know our rules, like at all? I really think you don't. A blitz is a stomp, therefore is not a match we can do because obviously the dude who can't react can do nothing. This is basic logic and there's no discussion that can be had.

But their actions are not empowered with ki, yet they can interact with them, just as they can interact with the physical and material universe. Again, either make a CRT to add soul destruction to them, or this is meaningless. We've know for forever that souls can get killed in DB but they still don't have that, so it is entirely intentional. Controlling spiritual energy and controlling actual souls is not in anyway the same.

All over the world is not another dimension, and Buu only did that to escape out of a place that had nothing and never did that again. Why would Janemba, when he has no clue he has to kill all 3 at the same time? Which also means he wouldn't since he would need to go to the dimensions of each one individually.

Are you actually reading literally anything I am saying? Are you even attempting to? I know DS can't react is the literal reason this is a blitz and a stomp and can't be added. And strength has nothing to do when DS just haxes him with the absolute zero or the millions of degrees or the space time destruction or the sealing or the acid or the other metric ton of stuff Janemba doesn't resist.

Which he never would, because Janemba is not copying anything, just making a copy of you that can do a skill. Which he only used once to counter Goku's attack and never again. Are you even reading what I am saying? Are you trying to? You are repeating the same thing over and over and over like I am saying nothing.

... I am gonna be honest, argumenting with you is incredily tiresome, but I do hope you have a good rest of the day whatever you have to do.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

The speed was unequal would it be a stomp due to incapping Darsh? Because I don't see Janemba being able to kill Darsh.

Considering Janemba doesn't have the personality to care about incapping someone, it would still just end a stomp for DS because Janemba couldn't kill him in either of the 2 rounds.

 

[SSJRyu1]

Janemba can effect spirits so imo he kills Darsh, but if he cant Darsh still gets incap or sealed by Janemba, or Janemba copies Darsh's skill to win. Either way Darsh can't win due to speed, while Janemba has several ways that could incap or possibly kill Darsh.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Except Janemba doesn't incap. He never does that, nor does his personality make it seem like he could. He also can't seal him, because he never was shown using his clones to attack the opponent, just counter a move of theirs. And the copy disappeared the second right after.

 

[PhantomØ4]

''The tragedy of CIS''

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

I mean, the moment we start arguing powers instead of characters when they aren't even bloodlusted, then we have a pretty shitty situation :U

 

[C2_of_Omegon]

Honestly, I don't see the point in debating with SSJRyu1 because it's pretty clear logic isn't dicating his stance and that all he cares about is the validation of Janemba winning whatever way the character can...

Seriously, this matchup is bad all the way around and should have been closed.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

He's been respectful so whatever his reasoning I wanted to try and humor him.

But yes, this is going nowhere. And the bad part is, I am not sure there's anyone awake right now available to close this.

 

[SSJRyu1]

All over other world which is bigger than the univese. Buu and others still can both make portals and sense the ki of any living thing or energy so it is a distinct possibility.

edit* Including sensing all the way to kaioshin realm or other world from earth which is a seperate dimesnion. Also even the dead and spirits have ki, adn they do fight on the astral plane several times in DBS with their mental training. So he could likely sense DS even in another dimension.

I was refering to the Majin version which is in round 1 and the pics. But looking at it now you are correct that its DKL in round 2 which I hadn't noticed, and he is indeed strogner on this wiki, but I wasn't using him in my analysis which I still stand by.

If it's DKL and we say he is strogner then his bloodstone will work well on the faster Janemba and DKL wins with a stomp imo since Janemba will still blitz him but DKL is to strong to be killed by Janemba and Janemba will hurt himself from the passive bloodstone.

SO I will change my vote actually now that I realize it is DKL version, and actually call it a stomp due to superior hax and raw power as well in DKL favor. I still stand by Janemba beating Majin DS low difficulty though since Janemba has vastly superior power, speed, several ways to win via incap, sealing, copying DS and possibly outright killing him body spirit and soul though.

 

[SSJRyu1]

Also I resent you saying that I only care about a character winning and have no logic behind my decisions. Just becouse you don't agree with my stance on something doesn't mean it has no logic behind it or is only a biased decision, it is just a diffrent opinion and possibly view of logic.

I highly agree with being respectful btw, regardless of if the point of view is mutal or not.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Distance is meaningless when talking of another dimension. And there's no ki to sense from a soul or a mind, especially since Buu sensed neither and just shouted to create a portal.

Well yeah, but the Majin version is the exact same situation. Only different is Dragon Knight AP stomps Janemba hilariously. I'll repeat, arguing speed is irrelevant because its a blitz, and we don't allow those. Yes Janemba is faster but that's not the point.

They are both entirely different rounds. Round one is Majin vs Normal Janemba, Round two DK vs Super Janemba.

 

[SSJRyu1]

See above. Ive already explained how Janemba could deal with alternate dimesnions.

Anyhow I do really need to get some sleep so if you still want my stance on the topic see above, but to sum up Janemba stomps Majin DS imo fra, but since it's DKL Janemba loses to a combo of bloodstone and superior AP in a stomp.

 

[VegetoSSJ3]

Good arguments so far, but I wouldn't say Ryu is being biased. He seems to have logical arguments like everyone else, However, some take this way too seriously imo.

How I see it:

Either Janemba outlast D.S or seals him or right up kills his physical body with Dimension Slash (tecnical win as his resurrection was slow from what I remember), or use D.S' own attacks against him with spatial manipulation.

Darsh's reactive power level increases up to Janemba's and can now keep up somewhat to hit him with EE

On the side note, I'm not sure about Janemba's soul manipulation. However, he did passively ressurrected mortals. As far his copying abilities, it seems a bit far fetch to me, since Goku's abilities are Ki based and not Magic based.

I would say Janemba 6/10 due to unlimited stamina, spatial manipulation, passive sealing, transmutation, durability negation and likely soul manipulation

Edit: spelling errors