DB: Androids and Other Stuff

[StarShooter80]

Immunity to Biological Manipulation, Poisons & Diseases (Androids 13, 14, 15, 16, 19, Gammas 1 & 2)​

Since they are purely mechanical with no biological parts, these androids should have these immunities.

Immunity to Ki Extrasensory Perception (Androids 16, 17, 18, 19, Gero, Gammas 1 & 2)​

Due to their complete lack of a ki signature in the first place, they cannot be sensed no matter how layered a character's ki sensing might be. This isn't like the chi of a SSB or angel which are too advanced for regular users, there just isn't a ki signature to detect.

Not including Toei androids as GT seemingly retcons them into having traceable ki signatures for some reason.

Immunity to Ki Absorption, and Resistance to Life-Force & Soul Absorption​

Like before, due to their complete lack of chi Moro's absorption abilities (used by 73) are useless. Though this should only apply to their Ki, Life-Force and Soul absorption can't be an immunity since they don't lack it entirely, Androids like 17 can be revived after all. This should apply to all androids that have no Ki.


Though 16 and 19 completely lack a soul since they're mechanical, hence why 16 couldn't be revived but 17 could. So they should have an Immunity to Soul Manipulation.

Possible Resistance to Sleep Manipulation Removal​

Only Android 19 is listed with this ability due to his infinite energy reserve allowing him to never tire out, but it's no different from the other androids and the same is stated for Android 17. This just Self-Sustenance Type 3 which all the Androids already have so this should be removed.

Immunity to Blood Manipulation (Gammas 1 & 2)​

It's only listed as a resistance on their page but it should be an immunity, since there is no blood to be manipulated.

Beerus Weakness Removal​

In his profile it's said he "He enjoys a good fight and will often drag it out for entertainment value" however the only time this occurs was with Goku in the first arc of Super, as he wanted a good fight as his dream promised. This isn't a reoccurring thing so it should be removed.

DBS Manga Gohan Tabbers​

Gohan has a tabber for Resurrection F and the Universe 6 Saga, but he doesn't have keys for either of these. He also has the ability of performing vice shout in his Universe 6 Saga key:

Dimensional Travel, Sound Manipulation, Space-Time Manipulation & Portal Creation (At this level of power he can create dimensional rifts and destroy space-time and pocket dimensions with his energy)

However he doesn't have any feats in the Universe 6 Saga that gets him to the same level as Gotenks or Super Buu, this is only a thing for the anime as we have Gohan scale to Piccolo who in turn downscales from Frost who downscales from Goku, who is leagues and bounds beyond Super Buu/Gotenks in the Buu Saga in base alone.

This should all just merge into his Tournament of Power Tabber, and since the Super Hero tabber is literally just one additional transformation it wouldn't hurt to merge it with that too.

Non-Physical Interaction (Abstractions, Void, Beyond-Dimensional Existence, Nonexistence & Soul/Spirit) Fixes​

The ki page already covers it, so it should be removed from the profiles which include many DBS Anime Saiyans like Goku, Vegeta, Gogeta and other characters, as they're just repeating already covered abilities.

Soul/Spirit should be covered in the Sealing section of the ki page too.

Ki Manipulation Page​

In the canon segment, "Dragon Ball & Dragon Ball Z" should be renamed to General and be its own tabber at the front, and the Dragon Ball Super part should just be removed, naming the two as just "Anime" and "Manga", being sub-tabbers under the Canon tabber. This was formatted like this before because we used to have the DBS anime and manga as just alternate continuations on the original manga, but now we have the anime as its own independent thing following kai, with the only alternate continuation from the original manga being Daima (which adds nothing and already shares the same worldview & characteristics as the manga, which should probably be noted on the ki page too).

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

Possibly top 5 easiest DBZ CRTs in existence. I agree (Watch it get stonewalled)

 

[Starsprite53]

I agree.

 

[Nami_Kami]

I agree. To add to your point, androids can tire out and get weakened. Cell is stated to have gained 17 and 18's infinite energy generators, yet we also see him get tired and weakened with Goku giving him a Senzu to restore his power. I think their ''infinite energy'' is just them having a generator that continuously provides them with energy, but they can still get tired by using up energy at a faster rate than it can replenish it.

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

To add to your point, androids can tire out and get weakened

No, they can't, is literally part of the lore that 18 defeated Vegeta because she does not get tired while fighting, both androids in the tournament of power were mockering the universe 3 for "having large reserves of energy" while they have limitless energy

What they can't do is continue fighting when they are extremely injured like 17 VS Jiren

Edit: Unless you are refering to others like android 20 or 19, they don't have quotes of limitless energy, that could be valid

 

[Nami_Kami]

No, they can't, is literally part of the lore that 18 defeated Vegeta because she does not get tired while fighting, both androids in the tournament of power were mockering the universe 3 for "having large reserves of energy" while they have limitless energy

What they can't do is continue fighting when they are extremely injured like 17 VS Jiren

Edit: Unless you are refering to others like android 20 or 19, they don't have quotes of limitless energy, that could be valid

How you interpret DB lore is not how DB lore actually is. Here is a VERBATIM statement that Cell has 17 and 18's Infinite Energy Generators. Here is Cell getting WEAKENED and TIRED after using up too much power. All this means is that 17 and 18 were simply never pushed to the point where their stamina usage exceeded their energy generation, but to suggest they absolutely cannot get tired is directly debunked by LORE, and is a no limit fallacy based on a few out of context statements to begin with

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

How you interpret DB lore is not how DB lore actually is

So Android 17 and 18 having limitless energy is wrong because you say so?

they absolutely cannot get tired is directly debunked by LORE

And they never showed to get tired for using energy, Cell and others did, not them, simple as that

All this means is that 17 and 18 were simply never pushed to the point where their stamina usage exceeded their energy generation,

17 was pushed by Jiren, he got weaker by being damaged, not by energy usage, because he can't get tired by energy usage

Also, you are asking DB perfect consistency when it is already clear the series is known for their inconsistency, Hit is the perfect example with how we treat his ability, Cell regeneration too with different explanations of "he regenerated from a single cell " vs "he regenerates for having a nucleous on his head" while said head was blown up, with dragon ball Kakarot saying he was lying 30 years after the claim and that Cell is supposed to have Namekian regen when Namekian regen is far below what Cell should be doing.

So yeah "cell has a infinite reactor", I don't care, he got tired= he does not work that way, not that androids never worked that way in the first place

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

Also your claim is not even about this thread, is adding something irrelevant that you should be posting in your own thread, so do it yourself lol

 

[Hayato5652]

I agree

 

[Nami_Kami]

So Android 17 and 18 having limitless energy is wrong because you say so?

It really is funny how you are presented with verbatim scans and your response is ''so its that way because you say so''.

So yeah "cell has a infinite reactor", I don't care, he got tired= he does not work that way, not that androids never worked that way in the first place

Read, it says he got specifically 17 and 18's generators after absorbing them, not that he simply has a generator. It works like theirs because it IS theirs. You are free to headcanon all you want, the evidence speaks for itself.

Also your claim is not even about this thread, is adding something irrelevant that you should be posting in your own thread, so do it yourself lol

It adds onto the thread. But yeah I will make a seperate thread just for this and have you watch it get accepted

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

No point in debating if you are acting like a child

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

I will make a seperate thread just for this and have you watch it get accepted

Convince the whole DB fandom first, then talk

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Wouldn't all the purely mechanical Androids have immunity to soul manipulation due to being robots and not cyborgs or Bio-Androids like Gero, 17, 18, Cell or 21?

 

[StarShooter80]

Wouldn't all the purely mechanical Androids have immunity to soul manipulation due to being robots and not cyborgs or Bio-Androids like Gero, 17, 18, Cell or 21?

Yes the Movie 7 Androids and Gammas are included in that regard too

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I mostly agree, but iirc, PLs could still be detected by 16's scanners due to being mechanical. And 17 also has scanners that could detect mechanical PL's, but is limited due to not being able to detect full PL's of Androids that are fully mechanical as opposed to only being half. So unsure about "Immunity" for some and may need a rewording.

 

[StarShooter80]

I mostly agree, but iirc, PLs could still be detected by 16's scanners due to being mechanical. And 17 also has scanners that could detect mechanical PL's, but is limited due to not being able to detect full PL's of Androids that are fully mechanical as opposed to only being half. So unsure about "Immunity" for some and may need a rewording.

That's information analysis rather than extraordinary perception, which we accept ki sensing as being both

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

That's information analysis rather than extraordinary perception, which we accept ki sensing as being both

Fair enough, and I did double check "Immunity" has more to be towards ones done using Ki sensing? That I got no problems with.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Fair enough, and I did double check "Immunity" has more to be towards ones done using Ki sensing? That I got no problems with.

Wouldn't all the purely mechanical Androids have immunity to soul manipulation due to being robots and not cyborgs or Bio-Androids like Gero, 17, 18, Cell or 21?

What do you think of the soul stuff?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Wouldn't all the purely mechanical Androids have immunity to soul manipulation due to being robots and not cyborgs or Bio-Androids like Gero, 17, 18, Cell or 21?

Yeah, looks reasonable. And explains why 16 couldn't get revived; though Path to Power appears to be an exception as Android 8 was revived in that movie. Though the wish may have to do with automatic repairs rather than returning soul perhaps.

 

[SonGoku_9377]

Look good. I agree

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Yeah, looks reasonable. And explains why 16 couldn't get revived; though Path to Power appears to be an exception as Android 8 was revived in that movie. Though the wish may have to do with automatic repairs rather than returning soul perhaps.

They could have easily revived my boy if they said "Restore all the damage and harm caused by Cell".

 

[Nami_Kami]

What do you think of the soul stuff?

No, since they still have a soul... Somehow. 19 and 20 were seen in the Afterlife in both Z and GT. Makes no sense, but DB do be DB sometimes. Other purely mechanical androids like the Metallitron were also seen in the Afterlife.

 

[StarShooter80]

No, since they still have a soul... Somehow. 19 and 20 were seen in the Afterlife in both Z and GT. Makes no sense, but DB do be DB sometimes. Other purely mechanical androids like the Metallitron were also seen in the Afterlife.

That's only in Anime/Toei material really, 20 isn't fully mechanical either

 

[TiltedFN]

How you interpret DB lore is not how DB lore actually is. Here is a VERBATIM statement that Cell has 17 and 18's Infinite Energy Generators. Here is Cell getting WEAKENED and TIRED after using up too much power. All this means is that 17 and 18 were simply never pushed to the point where their stamina usage exceeded their energy generation, but to suggest they absolutely cannot get tired is directly debunked by LORE, and is a no limit fallacy based on a few out of context statements to begin with

Stop with the condescending tone Nami. You've been warned about this in past DB threads. I suggest you stop. First of all, the Daizenshuu guides are still secondary sources, if something is contradicted by the original source material, then we don't use it. Cell didn't gain the infinite energy generators that 17 and 18 had. They specifically do NOT get tired and can fire off energy blast indefinitely. This is stated in the dragon ball manga, and shown in super. You want to talk about lore, yet its right in front of you, but gets ignored anyway in place of your own narrative without looking deeper into the situation. Not to mention an infinite energy generator isn't required to make a barrier. Future Gohan does it in the special, we see cell max make a ki type barrier as well. Goku did the same in the Granolah arc. You saying that the androids didn't get pushed to the point where they get tired is complete Headcanon that you made up.

 

[MeiouHades]

Agree with @TiltedFN, and seriously that attitude has gotta go. Right now.

 

[JustANormalPerson01]

Immunity to Biological Manipulation, Poisons & Diseases (Androids 13, 14, 15, 16, 19, Gammas 1 & 2)​

Since they are purely mechanical with no biological parts, these androids should have these immunities.

Inorganic Physiology already covers this

 

[StarShooter80]

Inorganic Physiology already covers this

The page only includes this as possible additional resistances, there are actual inorganic characters that are still affected by these abilities

 

[JustANormalPerson01]

Tbh, any character with inorganic physiology should have inherent resistance to biological manipulation ("The ability to manipulate organic beings"). So idk if it is necessary to link it.

I also don't think immunity to disease and poison manipulation should be given. From what I know, immunity is only given in cases like lacking no bones and as thus being immune to someone manipulating your bone structure, or being soulless and as thus being immune to someone manipulating your soul. Resistance could be fine, tho (but I still think it is something all inorganic beings, at least type 2, should have)

 

[StarShooter80]

Tbh, any character with inorganic physiology should have inherent resistance to biological manipulation ("The ability to manipulate organic beings"). So idk if it is necessary to link it.

I also don't think immunity to disease and poison manipulation should be given. From what I know, immunity is only given in cases like lacking no bones and as thus being immune to someone manipulating your bone structure, or being soulless and as thus being immune to someone manipulating your soul. Resistance could be fine, tho (but I still think it is something all inorganic beings, at least type 2, should have)

How are poisons and diseases of any level going to have an affect on machinery at all? It’s an immunity because they lack the qualities of being susceptible to these things in the first place

 

[JustANormalPerson01]

Fiction can work like that. For example, in Pokemon inorganic characters like Golett and Golurk can still be poisoned despite being made out of clay.

Immunity to poison manipulation seems to imply that no kind of poison manipulation can affect them. Reason why Inorganic Physiology puts only resistance to what you're stating in possible uses, instead of immunity, despite matching your description entirely

 

[StarShooter80]

Fiction can work like that. For example, in Pokemon inorganic characters like Golett and Golurk can still be poisoned despite being made out of clay.

Immunity to poison manipulation seems to imply that no kind of poison manipulation can affect them.

That’s just something in other fictions, we have no reason to assume the same for other ones that don’t showcase these examples

 

[JustANormalPerson01]

Tbf, Inorganic Physiology —which is the basis to your argument to immunity to said abilities— lists the possible users as  Resistance, despite matching your arguments entirely. Quoting:

• Resistance to Poison: As users of this ability have no organic functions, common poison would be ineffective against them.
• Resistance to Biological Manipulation: As users of this ability aren't organic beings, they lack all biological functions, and can therefore also not be manipulated in this manner.
• Resistance to Diseases: As they lack the body functions of living beings, common illnesses would not harm them.

So, I'm still inclined to resistance instead of immunity.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

To add to your point, androids can tire out and get weakened. Cell is stated to have gained 17 and 18's infinite energy generators, yet we also see him get tired and weakened with Goku giving him a Senzu to restore his power.

Firstly, Cell physically could not absorb 17 and 18's Infinite Energy Reactors because Cell's Absorption is "fusion at the cellular level" (細胞レベルで融 saibō reberu de yūgō), and the Infinite Energy Reactors are (surprise, surprise) mechanical components.

Secondly, Cell's Form Change simply requires "absorbing the life force of other living beings", and Cell only transforms after absorbing 17 and 18 because they are "especially powerful life forms", as per Dr. Gero's supercomputer. Even without 17 and 18, Cell could have achieved perfection by acquiring similar or greater amounts of life force; in fact, by powering up from the brink of death upon self-destructing, even without 18, Cell does achieve perfection. To my knowledge, never are 17 and 18 implied or explicitly confirmed to be special, nor is absorbing the two ever described as the only way to achieve perfection; again, Super Perfect Cell reacquires a Perfect Form even after losing 18.

Thirdly, Cell being tired—i.e., losing energy—directly contradicts Daizenshuu 7. Cell uses up Ki during regeneration, Cell exhausts strength through combat, and Cell can lose energy; Androids 17 and 18 do not lose either strength or power through combat because their stamina is infinite. Possessing an Infinite Energy Reactor, which grants an infinite reserve of available strength, power, and stamina, and being capable of exhausting your stamina and energy are fundamentally incompatible functions.

17 also has scanners that could detect mechanical PL's, but is limited due to not being able to detect full PL's of Androids that are fully mechanical as opposed to only being half.

Neither Android 17 or 18 are "equipped with sensors" like Android 16 is, possibly because they are Biotechnological Types; as detailed by Dr. Gero's blueprints, the Biotechnological Types are "enhanced almost entirely with bio-organic components", and their only cybernetic enhancements (e.g., 17 and 18's energy reactors) are "tiny", whereas a Power Radar is likely a larger, more machine-like component.

And explains why 16 couldn't get revived; though Path to Power appears to be an exception as Android 8 was revived in that movie.

Daizenshuu 4 classifies Android 8 as a Biotechnological Type, which, to my knowledge, has never been debunked or even contradicted by any official source.

The Dragon Ball Wiki claims Toriyama describes Eighter as a Mechanical Type during a 2014 Full Color Q&A, which, evidently, is only because in answering a question about "modified-human types", Toriyama exclusively references 17 and 18—which is not evidence.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

I agree (not like it matters but eh)

 

[RoninSlayer200]

I agree (not like it matters but eh)

It ain't much, but it's honest work.

 

[Nami_Kami]

First of all, the Daizenshuu guides are still secondary sources, if something is contradicted by the original source material, then we don't use it. Cell didn't gain the infinite energy generators that 17 and 18 had. They specifically do NOT get tired and can fire off energy blast indefinitely. This is stated in the dragon ball manga, and shown in super. You want to talk about lore, yet its right in front of you, but gets ignored anyway in place of your own narrative without looking deeper into the situation. Not to mention an infinite energy generator isn't required to make a barrier. Future Gohan does it in the special, we see cell max make a ki type barrier as well. Goku did the same in the Granolah arc. You saying that the androids didn't get pushed to the point where they get tired is complete Headcanon that you made up

You are yet to present a contradiction to the Daizenshuu. Us not seeing them get tired does not mean they can't get tired. That's a textbook ignorance fallacy. I talk about the narrative and provided the evidence for it. You write walls of texts with 0 proof and all of your arguments easily labelled fallacious. The IEG is never said to be required to make a barrier, it's simply said it makes it easier. 'Headcanon you made up'' That's your opinion, which amounts to nothing. The evidence I presented shows they can get tired.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

You are yet to present a contradiction to the Daizenshuu. Us not seeing them get tired does not mean they can't get tired. That's a textbook ignorance fallacy. I talk about the narrative and provided the evidence for it. You write walls of texts with 0 proof and all of your arguments easily labelled fallacious. The IEG is never said to be required to make a barrier, it's simply said it makes it easier. 'Headcanon you made up'' That's your opinion, which amounts to nothing. The evidence I presented shows they can get tired.

 

[TiltedFN]

You are yet to present a contradiction to the Daizenshuu. Us not seeing them get tired does not mean they can't get tired. That's a textbook ignorance fallacy. I talk about the narrative and provided the evidence for it. You write walls of texts with 0 proof and all of your arguments easily labelled fallacious. The IEG is never said to be required to make a barrier, it's simply said it makes it easier. 'Headcanon you made up'' That's your opinion, which amounts to nothing. The evidence I presented shows they can get tired.

Until you can bring up a scan of android 17 and 18 being able to get tired and lost power, then I won't take a single thing you say seriously. We have the scans and showings to prove otherwise, yet you have nothing. Also null already replied to your points. Cell can't absorb the infinite energy reactors because he fuses with beings on the cellular level, not with microscopic mechanical parts, his body isn't designed for it.

 

[Nami_Kami]

Firstly, Cell physically could not absorb 17 and 18's Infinite Energy Reactors because Cell's Absorption is "fusion at the cellular level" (細胞レベルで融 saibō reberu de yūgō), and the Infinite Energy Reactors are (surprise, surprise) mechanical components.

By absorbing 17 he gained the generator's energy. I don't see the contradiction.

Thirdly, Cell being tired—i.e., losing energy—directly contradicts Daizenshuu 7. Cell uses up Ki during regeneration, Cell exhausts strength through combat, and Cell can lose energy; Androids 17 and 18 do not lose either strength or power through combat because their stamina is infinite. Possessing an Infinite Energy Reactor, which grants an infinite reserve of available strength, power, and stamina, and being capable of exhausting your stamina and energy are fundamentally incompatible functions.

Infinite can just mean a continuous flow of energy. She never loses stamina vs Vegeta because the generator provided her with more energy than what she used up. It's very clear that the generator works by continuously providing them energy, as opposed to it having literal infinite energy at all times, unless you want to claim they are high universal, which isn't reflected here. If that's the case their energy is in reality finite, and can exhaust if they use energy at a faster rate than they lose it.

 

[StarShooter80]

Tbf, Inorganic Physiology —which is the basis to your argument to immunity to said abilities— lists the possible users as  Resistance, despite matching your arguments entirely. Quoting:

So, I'm still inclined to resistance instead of immunity.

The resistance page lists inorganic physiology resisting biological manipulation as an example of an immunity, yet the inorganic page still lists it as a resistance. The page is just wrong