DBS Gohan speed and tier

[Jiren's_Dad]

I was wondering how long it will take for Gohan Beast to get his upgrade because everyone else got a super fast update yet not Gohan. Gohan already has statements above Goku and Vegeta including the Z fighters and the Gammas all at the same time as it was stated by Gohan even if Goku and Vegeta helped out they might not have won and they saw there fight against Jiren and Piccolo sensed Broly so that’s further proof of where they can gauge there strength. Not just that but statements of the Gammas being on Goku’s level same with Piccolo and the fight against Cell Max was stated to be the strongest ever So either Gohan is massively above MUI Goku, Jiren, Broly and Gogeta or that both should be around if not above Gogeta but Gohan definitely should be above everyone during those events. Not just that but Toriyama saying Gohan is the strongest and promotional things saying the same o think Gohan should get Low 2-C and At least 245 septillion c, likely far higher like MUI Goku since he should be that tier.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

There is another thread planning the same thing.

 

[Jiren's_Dad]

There is another thread planning the same thing.

That’s only for the Low 2-C but what I was also thinking is if Gohan is stated to be the strongest warrior and that this is the strongest battle wouldn’t it make sense if his speed is in the MUI range if not a lot higher including power.

 

[thetechmaster36]

Nnnnno, I've already touched upon something like this in the General Discussion thread before.

 

[Jiren's_Dad]

Nnnnno, I've already touched upon something like this in the General Discussion thread before.

You didn’t talk about how not just Toriyama but the staff promotion also says this and it also says the strongest battle in history so at bare minimum he’d be relative but he should be a lot stronger and faster

 

[thetechmaster36]

You didn’t talk about how not just Toriyama but the staff promotion also says this and it also says the strongest battle in history so at bare minimum he’d be relative but he should be a lot stronger and faster

You clearly only focused on the statements rather than the. . .everything else.

Even if we want to take these statements into consideration, there is literally nothing else that demonstrably backs this. I've reiterated time and time again: Goku has not gone MUI and Vegeta has not gone SSBE since the Tournament of Power.

You're so focused on taking the statements at the highest interpretation possible while forgetting that we have yet to see either of these forms return after the Tournament; said Post-ToP period having been used by Goku and Vegeta to grow stronger after the fact, which in turn, means that the forms are also stronger.

I'm fine with Gohan being above Goku and Vegeta to some degree, but I'm not okay with it being relegated to "Gohan is stronger than MUI Goku and SSBE Vegeta" when neither of them have shown of the forms since they appeared.

 

[DanielX7]

You clearly only focused on the statements rather than the. . .everything else.

Even if we want to take these statements into consideration, there is literally nothing else that demonstrably backs this. I've reiterated time and time again: Goku has not gone MUI and Vegeta has not gone SSBE since the Tournament of Power.

You're so focused on taking the statements at the highest interpretation possible while forgetting that we have yet to see either of these forms return after the Tournament; said Post-ToP period having been used by Goku and Vegeta to grow stronger after the fact, which in turn, means that the forms are also stronger.

I'm fine with Gohan being above Goku and Vegeta to some degree, but I'm not okay with it being relegated to "Gohan is stronger than MUI Goku and SSBE Vegeta" when neither of them have shown of the forms since they appeared.

Toriyama stated that, it that simple, and he write the manga.

 

[thetechmaster36]

Toriyama stated that, it that simple, and he write the manga.

Yes, great, Toriyama stated it and all. Except:
1. Why are we taking his word at the highest possible interpretation in spite of the fact that we have yet to see MUI Goku come back?
And 2. Why are we taking his word at all when he quite literally says:

Gohan is actually stronger than anyone...or so it's said.

When he goes "or so it's said", he is equating the statement to that of a hypothesis, or a rumor. AKA, we haven't seen whether Gohan is stronger than anyone (within logistics, anyways, obv he's not above the Angels, Grand Priest, or Zen-ō).

I've said it time and time again, there is absolutely nothing proving that Gohan is on the level of MUI whatsoever.

 

[DanielX7]

Yes, great, Toriyama stated it and all. Except:
1. Why are we taking his word at the highest possible interpretation in spite of the fact that we have yet to see MUI Goku come back?
And 2. Why are we taking his word at all when he quite literally says:

When he goes "or so it's said", he is equating the statement to that of a hypothesis, or a rumor. AKA, we haven't seen whether Gohan is stronger than anyone (within logistics, anyways, obv he's not above the Angels, Grand Priest, or Zen-ō).

I've said it time and time again, there is absolutely nothing proving that Gohan is on the level of MUI whatsoever.

Thats not even the statement I used!
Gohan said, that not even Goku AND Vegeta could win over Cell Max, why in the hell Gohan could not know the MUI and UE? The Granolah thing happened months ago. And that line is also a form of Toriyama stating that not even Goku and Vegeta combined are strong enough to defeat Cell Max.
Toriyama stated that Piccollo now is on the same level of Goku and Vegeta, he didn't said anything about being of the same level of theirs "but only if we ignore MUI and UE"!

 

[DanielX7]

Yes, great, Toriyama stated it and all. Except:
1. Why are we taking his word at the highest possible interpretation in spite of the fact that we have yet to see MUI Goku come back?
And 2. Why are we taking his word at all when he quite literally says:

When he goes "or so it's said", he is equating the statement to that of a hypothesis, or a rumor. AKA, we haven't seen whether Gohan is stronger than anyone (within logistics, anyways, obv he's not above the Angels, Grand Priest, or Zen-ō).

I've said it time and time again, there is absolutely nothing proving that Gohan is on the level of MUI whatsoever.

There is something called power scaling, that proves that Gohan Beast is above everyone else in the U7 (not mentioning Beerus and Whis) at the time of the movie.

 

[Vietthai96]

Actually, we don't even know DBS Anime Vegeta have UE or not because at this point anime clearly go with different route. And in the movie look like Vegeta take a different approach in his training, so UE probably not even exist in Anime/Movie continuity

 

[thetechmaster36]

Gohan said, that not even Goku AND Vegeta could win over Cell Max, why in the hell Gohan could not know the MUI and UE? The Granolah thing happened months ago.

1. Gohan already knows of MUI's existence because he witnessed it in the Tournament of Power, but that's not even my point in the first place; my point is that we can't just arbitrarily say that Gohan is stronger than MUI Goku when Goku has not only not been shown to use MUI again since the ToP, but also the fact that he has been training for a few years between the ToP and Super Hero, which would by extension, make the form stronger as well.
2. Stop applying the manga to the anime continuity; we have zero reason to be applying the manga to the anime continuity unless it gets an adaptation. I don't care if you want to try and fit it into the timeline somehow, the fact of the matter is that we can't logistically apply it until it gets adapted.

Toriyama stated that Piccollo now is on the same level of Goku and Vegeta, he didn't said anything about being of the same level of theirs "but only if we ignore MUI and UE"!

And? That doesn't change my stance.

There is something called power scaling, that proves that Gohan Beast is above everyone else in the U7 (not mentioning Beerus and Whis) at the time of the movie.

No it doesn't.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

the granolah the survivor saga transpired on another planet...

 

[DanielX7]

Actually, we don't even know DBS Anime Vegeta have UE or not because at this point anime clearly go with different route. And in the movie look like Vegeta take a different approach in his training, so UE probably not even exist in Anime/Movie continuity

The point holds, Gohan beast is more OP, even Piccolo is on par with Goku and Vegeta.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Actually, we don't even know DBS Anime Vegeta have UE or not because at this point anime clearly go with different route. And in the movie look like Vegeta take a different approach in his training, so UE probably not even exist in Anime/Movie continuity

The name is never used in the DBS Anime continuity, and I agree Vegeta doesn't have that there. But Toppo is like the only character who has shown properties of UE. Though UE in general is kind of an unofficial name the ability to possess Energy of Destruction though GoDs have actually mastered them much like Angels mastered UI.

 

[Vietthai96]

Hmm, i can understand that point, but Toppo form is called God of Destruction Mode though, and he even have a proper God of Destruction symbol of his universe on his stomach. Also power of destruction in Anime is somewhat different compare to Manga. Anime is way more versatile in usage, it erasure turn target into something like purple energy particle, Manga erasure look too much like Deconstruction