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DBZ Manga Upgrade (From the start of DBZ/Early Saiyan Saga)

And I'm saying, "No, it's dumb. Calc also makes weird assumptions".
No one weaker than Vegeta is 5-B.
you do realise there's a range of AP levels that fall under 5B right? its not illegal to have two people be in the same tier even if one is stronger than the other.

The range of planet level AP is 59.44 Zettatons to to 2.7 Yottatons. The calculation places Piccolo's moon busting feat at 70 zettatons, which for all intents and purposes is really close to the low end of the 5B AP range. Assuming Goku scales to that feat and applying Kaioken x4 since he overpowered Vegeta when using that, that still places his AP level at around 280 zettatons, or 0.28 yottatons, which isnt even close the high end of the 5B range. This of course is mostly hypothetical as Goku's actual power level is much stronger by the time he is revived and thus the multiplication is MUCH greater, but the point im illustrating here is that the range for AP levels to be considered planet level is actually quite high, so even if Goku at the start of DBZ was even 10 times weaker than vegeta, Goku's AP would still be in the Planet level range assuming Vegeta's maximum AP was 600 zettatons or greater.

Actually you know what? I think your statement on limiting characters that arent Vegeta is wrong is multiple accounts, so allow me to make a few statements of my own:
  • Despite the statement of Vegeta as a Planet Buster, we still don't have any actual AP value calculated for him aside from just a single statement of him declaring he's going to destroy the planet as well as confirmation of his planet busting status from guidebooks. Impressive, but it still means we have no AP calculation to compare Piccolo's own feat to, so we can't say for sure if Piccolo's feat is an outlier or not. For all we know, Vegeta could be 5A or High 5A because we still don't know how powerful his Galick Gun is, which would still place Goku at Planet level even if he only had a third of Vegeta's power.
    • Slight tangent here, but while Vegeta can destroy planets at his maximum, Freiza could destroy Planet Vegeta very casually in his first form. Not saying that Vegeta scales to first form Frieza, but even if Vegeta had only a tenth or even a hundreth of Frieza's AP, that would still place him at High 5A. Not making a new arguement here, but food for thought.
  • Again, guide books can be wrong or even contradictory, so they should be taken with a grain of salt. King Piccolo was stated by the same guide books to have a power rivaling a nuclear bomb, yet is stronger than Roshi who could blow up a moon. You could say that Roshi's moon feat is an outlier, but then it would contradict your claim earlier that neither Goku nor Piccolo had gotten stronger in the time skip between DB and DBZ as Piccolo did exactly that in DBZ even without the fan calculation placing him higher.
  • Media hype is bullcrap to justify Vegeta being the only one at planet level anyway because even the writers can do power estimates wrong in their own works. For example, In a DC comic involving the flash (I cant remember which), the writers had a statement that flash was moving at a particular speed in order to rescuse a bunch of people (one at a time) in a single hour, yet after a fan calculator calculated the same feat, the statement turned out to be bullshit because in order to actually rescue a bunch of people in that timeframe, he would have to be millions of times faster.
    • On that note, Akira Toriyama was a writer who basically wrote by the seat of his pants, in that he basically wrote whatever came into his head without thinking his work through, so even if he looked back on his work and made an official statement that said Vegeta was planet level, he had little to no understanding of the AP levels and calculations to even fathom how much power is needed to blow up a planet, and basically said Vegeta could destroy planets because it was cool.
I don't get why your obsessing with wanking statements like its the holy bible, but just because you say "Oh book says Vegeta blows up planets so no one can be on Vegeta's level because only he blows up planets" is, factually speaking, actually limiting in explanation for your reasoning.

On the other hand, not only have I provided a explainable calculation for Piccolo's power and tier upgrade, I also took the time to give proper reasoning and justification for why I think this upgrade is necessary, from explaining how much stronger Goku had gotten when compared the the Roshi moon feat he upscales from, to even conceding and changing my explanation from justifying an anime feat as canon to providing evidence from an actual canon feat.

If you're going to keep saying I'm wrong, at least have the decency to bring up some evidence beyond single statement. Provide a statement for how Goku isnt planet level, or provide an actual AP calc for Vegeta destroying the earth so we can determine if Piccolo's own feat is an outlier compared to Vegeta's own + the guidebook statements. At this point you are just sounding like someone justifying a NLF except for power levels somehow.
 
Y’all not understanding TK’s point is hilarious

Happy holidays y’all
I understand his point but its a flawed one. It is stated in guide books that Vegeta can destroy the earth with his power, but ultimately using a guide book to have a reason to limit other characters tiers is flawed because the guidebooks were never designed to reflect stuff such as proper feat calculations, and rather just give generalistic statments to characters that more or less explain out the story events.
Like sure, Vegeta is a planet buster according to the guidebooks, but for all we know his AP could be anywhere between 60 zetttatons or 2.7 yottatons, which is a 2,640 zettaton difference (or 45x difference) between Vegeta's hypothetical lowest or highest. Hell, his AP could be even greater due to to the general the statement is (guidebooks don't really tend to mention planet size with its planet buster statement), as since we never saw Vegeta destroying the earth, his power could have ranged from triggering the Earth's core to blow up to just ripping the entire earth apart with his galick gun (which would be similar to the 5A anime feat we got from Piccolo).

TLDR; Goku and Piccolo being planet level isnt as big of an issue as the difference between low end and high end of 5B is massive. Even then, Vegeta's power could just be upgraded to accommodate the change, as aside from generalist nature of the planet busting statement, since we never saw how Vegeta's blast could destroy the planet, his own power could be much greater than that of 5B (or potentially lower, it all really depends, but I think its higher).
 
He's a planet buster by his own statement that his Galick Gun could boom the planet, something that everyone below him thinks is extremely impressive.

You keep talking about the low end and high end of 5B. TK is talking about the fact that the lowest value of 5B is something out of range for the dudes weaker than him who are implied to not be able to destroy a planet.

"Strong enough to destroy the planet" wouldn't be impressive to a group of "planet busters"
 
The calculation of the moon being destroyed (5-B version) is also quite flawed, so there is also just no reason to upgrade anyone to 5-B.
 
He's a planet buster by his own statement that his Galick Gun could boom the planet, something that everyone below him thinks is extremely impressive.
Again, its a generalisation of a statement that was never meant to be applied to a VS battle style tiering.

For example, given Piccolo's moon level power, Piccolo could still destroy the earth. I mean, he couldn't do it completely, but he could still cause the planet to explode by overloading its core. With that logic, I could make the statement that Piccolo has the power to destroy the earth, so that would make him 5B, even though it would piss off everyone on the VS battle forums.

On the opposite end of the spectrum, Frieza casually destroying planets means that by the statement in the guide books, Frieza must be 5B by that logic. Obviously, he's not, since his's feat shown in DBS was calc'ed to be High 5A, but I could just be a moron and continue to hype on about first form frieza being 5B because guidebooks > feat calcs, further pissing off everyone on the forums.

Also it never says in the manga proper that the characters are scared of Vegeta simply because he can destroy a planet, they are scared of Vegeta because at this point he's a lot stronger than anyone they ever faced before.
You keep talking about the low end and high end of 5B. TK is talking about the fact that the lowest value of 5B is something out of range for the dudes weaker than him who are implied to not be able to destroy a planet.
"Strong enough to destroy the planet" wouldn't be impressive to a group of "planet busters"
It's never implied outright that they can't destroy a planet, its just that Vegeta's power output is much greater than theirs at that point in the story. In addition, Goku and co wouldn't consider destroying the planet because they live on it. Moon is fair game however.

Again, the general guidebook statement of Vegeta being a planet buster shouldn't be used in a VS battle tiering to determine tiers or limit others because it doesn't factor in the AP range of 5B, nor does it factor in stuff such calculations and physics. Going back to the Frieza feat, it could have been possible that Toriyama intended for Frieza destroying Planet Vegeta to be in the same ball park as Vegeta destroying Earth (albeit done casually to show to monstrous power at Frieza's fingertips), but its likely he didn't factor in stuff such as Planet Vegeta's higher gravity and thus the greater amount of energy needed to destroy the earth. If you were to show toriyama the scene again and ask him which tier that feat belongs in (after showing him all the VS battle tiers) he would likely pick 5B because it says planet level, although everyone else on the VS battle forum would say otherwise. He wouldn't pick High 5A because in his mind Planet Vegeta and Earth are the same size.
The calculation of the moon being destroyed (5-B version) is also quite flawed, so there is also just no reason to upgrade anyone to 5-B.
Explain to me where the flaws of the calculations are. Because from the way I see it, there's nothing in the calculation i can find particularly wrong.
 
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