DCAMU MIRROR MASTER LIGHTSPEED ATTACK

[sageof8paths]

Spoiler: Light speed requirements

LIGHT-SPEED REQUIRMENTS
According to the Laser/Light Beam Dodging Feats guidelines, a fictional beam can be considered light-speed if it meets several of the following:

• Reflects, refracts, or scatters like real light.
• Is explicitly described as light-speed.
• Is composed of photons or referred to as “light.”
• Originates from a realistic light source (e.g., sunlight, camera flash).

Beams that behave unrealistically—curve in open air, interact physically, or appear solid—are disqualified. However, strong adherence to realistic light behavior may still qualify a beam as light-speed in the absence of red flags.

Spoiler: Mirror Master’s Beams: Do They Qualify?

Mirror Master’s Beams: Do They Qualify?​

A. Visual Behavior
In Justice League: The Flashpoint Paradox, Mirror Master’s beams reflect off surfaces and travel in straight lines—hallmarks of coherent light or lasers. While not explicitly called “photon beams,” their behavior aligns closely with realistic light, fitting VS Battles criteria.

B. Source Material Support
In the comics, especially with Evan McCulloch, Mirror Master uses laser pistols and mirror tech to focus light into destructive beams, sometimes using reflected sunlight. These details reinforce that his weapons emit light-based energy, not solid projectiles.

C. No Physical or Unrealistic Interaction
His beams lack signs of physical tangibility: no curved paths, no solid impact effects. They behave like focused light, not matter—meeting another key criterion.

D. Semi-Realistic Source
As his name implies, mirror master shoots these beams from his mirror, with glistening flashes occurring prior to the beams implying them being light reflections.

Spoiler: Addressing Common Objections

Addressing Common Objections​

• No Explicit Light-Speed Claim? True, but VS Battles permits inference if the beam behaves like light and shows no disqualifying traits.
• Damage = Explosions? The beams deal energy damage as seen when they refract off Barry’s shoulder, not impact-based or physical destruction—consistent with laser effects.
• Characters Dodging Beams? Evasion doesn’t disprove light-speed—especially with characters like Flash, who relies enhanced reflexes. This is consistent with the flash moving faster than the eye can perceive in LIGHTNING TIME, completely blitzing lightning later on in the movie.

Spoiler: Conclusion

Conclusion​

Mirror Master’s beams in Flashpoint Paradox plausibly operate at or near light-speed because:

1. They reflect and travel like coherent light.
2. Comic lore supports their light-based, laser-like origin.
3. No contradictory behavior (e.g., solid form, curving paths) is shown.

Mirror Master’s tech manipulates light so effectively that it’s reasonable—and well-supported—to treat his beams as moving at the speed of light.

 

[Ozcantabak]

Agree of course.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Looks alright.

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

Looks alright.

Do you think those effects truly qualify as scientific light?

 

[ByArrow]

I agree

 

[Hellbeast]

Yeah this looks fine

 

[MrKerf]

I am a bit iffy. In the very same clip, Barry is shown not reacting to explosive spinning devices, yet he can effortlessly dodge light beams. I mean, unless we call it an outlier, I don't have anything against it being literal light in itself.

 

[ArkhamDC06]

Looks pretty good to me (also I wish more threads would adress common objections like this one)

 

[Ozcantabak]

I am a bit iffy. In the very same clip, Barry is shown not reacting to explosive spinning devices, yet he can effortlessly dodge light beams. I mean, unless we call it an outlier, I don't have anything against it being literal light in itself.

He was probably caught off gurad, Thawne did say "i knew using these morons would put you off your guard" and he pretty much locked in against mirror master and blitzed him using afterimage oppesed to others where he tried to meele combat.

 

[MrKerf]

He was probably caught off gurad, Thawne did say "i knew using these morons would put you off your guard" and he pretty much locked in against mirror master and blitzed him using afterimage oppesed to others where he tried to meele combat.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Looks good.

 

[sageof8paths]

I am a bit iffy. In the very same clip, Barry is shown not reacting to explosive spinning devices, yet he can effortlessly dodge light beams. I mean, unless we call it an outlier, I don't have anything against it being literal light in itself.

Either
1. The rogues found away to develop super speed bombs seeing as their fighting the flash.

or

2. The explosion is definitely the outlier. Barry consistently blitzes lightning in the verse. And like I said in the OP, in the same movie he moves faster than the eye can see even in lightning time.

Other slower characters also reach the atmosphere in seconds, and the upper limit to his speed is literally immeasurable.

When beings like trigon and darkseid are around he should be trying to go as fast as possible without breaking the time barrier, this is really nothing imo.

 

[GyroNutz]

There's a few points talking about why there's no antifeats for it being light, but very little to support the beam being light itself. Yes he uses mirrors, but the beams seem very different to how a mirror should reflect light - why does he need to thrust it forwards to project light beams? Why are some of these light beams curving in weird ways right after being shot? Bit nitpicky perhaps but the feat itself relies on said visuals.

If the mirror thingy that Mirror Master uses is based directly on something that shoots real light in the comics, then maybe this could work, but this point doesn't seem to be well supported in the OP.

 

[Firestorm808]

When the OP said that "Mirror Master’s beams reflect off surfaces and travel in straight lines," I was expecting to see it literally bounce off reflections across the room like a laser beam.

What we actually see is Mirror Master using a pocket mirror to shoot out a white energy bolt. If you examine it frame by frame, it doesn't even appear to be a straight laser beam until moments after it is fired.

 

[PapiSavitar5025]

Seems fine at a glance.

 

[sageof8paths]

There's a few points talking about why there's no antifeats for it being light, but very little to support the beam being light itself. Yes he uses mirrors, but the beams seem very different to how a mirror should reflect light - why does he need to thrust it forwards to project light beams? Why are some of these light beams curving in weird ways right after being shot? Bit nitpicky perhaps but the feat itself relies on said visuals.

If the mirror thingy that Mirror Master uses is based directly on something that shoots real light in the comics, then maybe this could work, but this point doesn't seem to be well supported in the OP.

When the OP said that "Mirror Master’s beams reflect off surfaces and travel in straight lines," I was expecting to see it literally bounce off reflections across the room like a laser beam.

What we actually see is Mirror Master using a pocket mirror to shoot out a white energy bolt. If you examine it frame by frame, it doesn't even appear to be a straight laser beam until moments after it is fired.

Apologies for not going the extra mile to find more comic lore on the exact tool he’s using and put it in the OP before, but with that being said.

In The Flash #174 we see the weapon that mirror master is using. It is specifically stated to shoot energy beams that move at the speed of light

As for the confusion on whether or not it moves in a straight line, that wobbly energy that appears before and after the beam is shot is almost certainly a pre and post beam energy discharge and NOT THE BEAM ITSELF, they never get past a meter away from the mirror. As we can see here, the beam itself is always straight.

 

[Firestorm808]

Apologies for not going the extra mile to find more comic lore on the exact tool he’s using and put it in the OP before, but with that being said.

In The Flash #174 we see the weapon that mirror master is using.

What is it and how does it work?

 

[sageof8paths]

What is it and how does it work?

i don’t think it’s explained fully, it’s just stated to be shoot radiation spurts in the form of an energy beam that travels at the speed of light (scientifically radiation is light speed) , but i also don’t think an in depth explanation is necessary to now that it’s confirmed to be at the speed of light.

 

[Firestorm808]

i don’t think it’s explained fully, it’s just stated to be shoot radiation spurts in the form of an energy beam that travels at the speed of light (scientifically radiation is light speed) , but i also don’t think an in depth explanation is necessary to now that it’s confirmed to be at the speed of light.

What scan are you referencing?

 

[sageof8paths]

What scan are you referencing?

i tagged them but i’ll do it again, i’m referencing these:

 

[Firestorm808]

i tagged them but i’ll do it again, i’m referencing these:

Ah, I didn't see that you edited your previous message.

 

[sageof8paths]

Ah, I didn't see that you edited your previous message.

yeah i mistakenly clicked post prematurely,

anyway, do u agree?

 

[Firestorm808]

There's a few points talking about why there's no antifeats for it being light, but very little to support the beam being light itself. Yes he uses mirrors, but the beams seem very different to how a mirror should reflect light - why does he need to thrust it forwards to project light beams? Why are some of these light beams curving in weird ways right after being shot? Bit nitpicky perhaps but the feat itself relies on said visuals.

If the mirror thingy that Mirror Master uses is based directly on something that shoots real light in the comics, then maybe this could work, but this point doesn't seem to be well supported in the OP.

Looks good.

Looks alright.

What do you guys think?

Is the comic statement usable?

 

[Qawsedf234]

What do you guys think?

In my view Comics shouldn't be used to justify adaptations and vice versa in most circumstances. Powers canonically vary between universes, and what works in one way in one reality doesn't work that way in another. An easy example is just Superman, since in some realities, you can get Superboy Prime and in others, you can get Millerverse Superman.

My issue is as you noted. Every time the mirror fires an energy beam, it comes out as a burst of energy that then solidifies into a solid beam. But it wobbles heavily and does not move in straight lines, which is the largest piece of counter-evidence. Since there's no statement or supporting piece of evidence, the OP is relying on them moving straight and coming from a mirror, but they don't move straight consistently, and coming from a mirror by itself isn't enough.

If it is accepted, I would also want to see the method the OP would calc Flash dodges the mirror bolts.

This is consistent with the flash moving faster than the eye can perceive in LIGHTNING TIME, completely blitzing lightning later on in the movie.

As a note, Lightning is at best like 220,000 MPH for the downstroke, and it's moving visibly from Barry's POV. Light moves at 670,616,629 MPH or roughly 3,048 times faster. Seeing lightning move sluggish and running faster than it by itself isn't a SoL justification, but a Microsecond reaction justification.

 

[GyroNutz]

...Since there's no statement or supporting piece of evidence, the OP is relying on them moving straight and coming from a mirror, but they don't move straight consistently, and coming from a mirror by itself isn't enough.

To add to this, the light/laser standards refer to mirrors as in light reflecting off of a mirror or reflective surface. These seem to absorb light and fire them out - the fact that they are mirrors doesn't really help their case?

My asking about the comics source was trying to see how this weapon operates, so if the provenance was reflected light then that would be good supporting evidence.

 

[sageof8paths]

In my view Comics shouldn't be used to justify adaptations and vice versa in most circumstances. Powers canonically vary between universes, and what works in one way in one reality doesn't work that way in another. An easy example is just Superman, since in some realities, you can get Superboy Prime and in others, you can get Millerverse Superman.

I think this isn’t a fair example because the other realities mentioned were never meant to be considered the main timeline, but rather elseworlds. the movie is supposed to be the main-timeline, ADAPTED from the comics.

My issue is as you noted. Every time the mirror fires an energy beam, it comes out as a burst of energy that then solidifies into a solid beam. But it wobbles heavily and does not move in straight lines, which is the largest piece of counter-evidence. Since there's no statement or supporting piece of evidence, the OP is relying on them moving straight and coming from a mirror, but they don't move straight consistently, and coming from a mirror by itself isn't enough.

Again i disagree, i think that’s an energy discharge SEPARATE, from the beam, and not the beam itself.

If it is accepted, I would also want to see the method the OP would calc Flash dodges the mirror bolts.

As a note, Lightning is at best like 220,000 MPH for the downstroke, and it's moving visibly from Barry's POV. Light moves at 670,616,629 MPH or roughly 3,048 times faster. Seeing lightning move sluggish and running faster than it by itself isn't a SoL justification, but a Microsecond reaction justification.

So this is a huge misunderstanding of the feat i linked because he’s still moving in super speed when lightning is moving like 1cm per second, but i’ll talk about this more below.

To add to this, the light/laser standards refer to mirrors as in light reflecting off of a mirror or reflective surface. These seem to absorb light and fire them out - the fact that they are mirrors doesn't really help their case?

My asking about the comics source was trying to see how this weapon operates, so if the provenance was reflected light then that would be good supporting evidence.

Since there’s not much more content to go off of, Can i calc the lightning feat, and if it gives sub-rel to rel speed, can this be accepted as a compromise for further consistency?

 

[Qawsedf234]

movie is supposed to be the main-timeline, ADAPTED from the comics.

Its a unquie universe that has been rebooted twice in its franchise. It being an adaption is ultimately meaningless, because it only takes parts of the story and changes other parts to make it work for an animated movie.

So I'm still not for using the comics unless they're DCAMU comics.

Again i disagree, i think that’s an energy discharge SEPARATE, from the beam, and not the beam itself.

The discharge is the beam, just the first part. Every beam we see fired has it stars with a weird discharge, that then becomes a straight beam. It's ultimately unrealistic.

moving in super speed when lightning is moving like 1cm per second, but i’ll talk about this more below.

My point is that lightning isn't frozen, its just slowed. Moving fast when lightning is slow still isn't a SoL justification.

Can i calc the lightning feat, and if it gives sub-rel to rel speed, can this be accepted as a compromise for further consistency?

Lightning being Sub-Rel doesn't make the mirrors SoL. It just means the Flash can move faster without going into his FTL/Time Travel speed.

 

[sageof8paths]

Lightning being Sub-Rel doesn't make the mirrors SoL. It just means the Flash can move faster without going into his FTL/Time Travel speed.

i was referring to his super speed movements being sub-rel-rel in another calc but it turns out there’s a way more clear, easier feat due to actually reacting to dr. lights lasers (that are stated light based, with similar properties to sunlight and properly refract. In later movies, a calc is being prepared right now, when those results come out, i’ll return to this, and instead of this being the main argument, it’ll be the secondary feat. would that be okay?

 

[sageof8paths]

On second thought, the way better feat deserves its own thread and honestly renders this one useless. this can be closed, please tune in for when that one drops.