Death (Folklore) ability removal

[Keeweed]

Ok so original I made a thread to delete death since in a large chunk of his stories he is usually just a metaphor rather than a mystical being. However someone point out a story to were he was an actual character. And a regular person nearly punched him to death: https://www.grimmstories.com/en/grimm_fairy-tales/deaths_messengers.

This would change his abstract existence to type 2 at least though it may just straight up remove it since he states that he needs to personally spread death for it to happen implying that death is only were he is and that it isn't a universal concept. This may or may not remove his immortalities: at least 8 needs to go since he wouldn't be reliant on a greater concept and type 9 since if he didn't get up then nothing would have been able to die implying that there a isn't separate true self. If his abstract existence is removed entirely then all his immortalities minus 1 get removed as they are reliant on him being death. This story would also remove his non corporeality as he was nearly punched to death by someone without non physical interaction. This would remove his aura since a regular person just walked up to him without feeling cold or dying and just punched him (Also apparently people go up to him to make deals without dying), and this removes his fate hax since he could do anything about the outcome of the fight and was slowly dying on the ground.

A single story and it already shot over half his abilities in the foot.

 

[MrKerf]

I'll get to it in minute.

 

[Keeweed]

Actually I need to edit the op since he may actually keep the immortalities though his abstract existence is being changed for sure.

Edit: I'm also not going to be able to respond for a few minutes so sorry for that.

 

[MrKerf]

Okay, soooo... Here we go again.

Death Manipulation: Well, Reaper wasn't trying to kill the guy immediatly. He was just warning him with the deseases. About giant, I would called it PIS. Anyway, I do not know, from witch tale this ability originates from. I guess that its connected with the fact, that he is an abstraction of death.

Abstract Existence: I do believe that type 2 makes sense. Since noone will die, if he won't get up, means that noone was dying if he wasn't killing them. Which means, that noone can kill him, since he is the only killer. Makes sense?

Again, he wasn't dying, he was half-fainting.

Don't know about aura. It can be toggleable, or wasn't mentioned. About dying part, only plants are dying. At least, thats what stated.

Fate hax probably is a PIS as well. I do not know, actually, why Death has it.

 

[Keeweed]

Yeah on Death not dying part but it doesn't really matter if he loses the reason he had the immortal in the first place. Type 8 is reliant on a concept but I don't remember anything saying he's reliant on death (he is death, so if he dies how would it bring him back), he would probably just have type 5 immortal. Also I think immortal type 9's definition changed from when it was originally added to the profile so it needs to be removed anyways.

The Giant story does seem pretty loaded with PIS since this is the same story death decided to presumably fist fight a giant, but there doesn't seem to be anything that would keep his fate hax since it was already barely on the profile.

An aura from death himself that passively kills things only working on plants sounds ridiculous, but there's another character on this site with the same weakness.

Are you fine with non corporeal being removed?

 

[MrKerf]

I still think that he should keep his AE. I thought that type 8 means that character won't die as long as concept of death exists. So, he not dies because he exists. Weird. Type 9 is weird. True selfs on the different plane of existense. Maybe it can be applied, but I do not know how.

Fate hax

Yeah, pretty much.

I think its a toggleable ability, but again, I don't know, from which story its from.

 

[Keeweed]

I feel like he should possibly should have different keys at this point because the giant story definitely proves he's real but has him get beat up by a guy with just Superhuman Physical Characteristics meanwhile other stories actually have him more be an abstract force. Heck I just remember why he was originally supposed to be deleted. Death is just a collection of folk tales but these stories can vary so drastically: in this story he was straight up wrecked by a nigh regular guy.

At least I guess his abstract will be changed to 2 and immortalities will be change to just 1,5 and possibly 8. Though looking back at the original deletion thread (the true original one) I can now see what they were talking about with Death being a collection of stories rather than a defined character.

 

[MrKerf]

Thats the usual problem with composite and semi-composite profiles. All of this stories are a part of folklore and therefore canon, but it is also inconsistent sometimes (the best example I've got is Scooby-Doo verse).

I'm personally strongly against deletion of character pages. Yeah, it is a bit inconsistent, but it can be handled.

 

[Keeweed]

Actually wait is Death a composite? That actually straight up against the rules of this site: Composite Link was/is going to be deleted due to being a Composite. Along with Godzilla, the Composite human, and Bugs Bunny I think so yeah Death still has a legitimate reason to be deleted.

 

[MrKerf]

Not really. I called it that way, but its not the case. Folklore is "written" by different people, but about the same characters. It still allowed.

From Ant in current discussio regarding composite profiles:

"Do not create composite profiles, as they contain highly inflated statistics and do not represent a reasonable canonical version of the character at any given point in time.

• Profiles for entire species may be acceptable, if it can be shown that the species in question would potentially be capable of having any and all of it's potential characteristics at once.
• In the event that a character has no linear canon, but rather treats all of the related works as being canon without much context as to the order of events, a profile detailing all of their feats at once may also be acceptable.
• While some verses may have a lot of stories written by a lot of different authors over a wide span of time, as long as these are all considered canon to each other, their feats can be used together without being considered a composite."

 

[Keeweed]

Not really. I called it that way, but its not the case. Folklore is "written" by different people, but about the same characters. It still allowed.

From Ant in current discussio regarding composite profiles:

"As long as these are all considered canon to each other". Death doesn't fit this category, the deaths in these stories are often vastly different only talking about the same concept like god or the devil but not the same being. Like how the death in the op is practical a regular guy compared to the more abstract interpretations of the character.

 

[MrKerf]

Thats why we're looking for this... how do I say it right? Case by case? The character is still the same. God, Devil, and Death are never change. That's how folklore works. "Folks" were writing about the same entities.

Yeah, I'll go sleep for now, write down everything you think about, will check the thread when'll wake up.

 

[Keeweed]

Probably should have commented this earlier but God and the Devil are mostly defined in Folklore while death isn't for one important reason. When people take about god and the devil they're talking about the god and the devil from their religion, which is a person/ established character depending on your religious views. Meanwhile death in these Folklores is just the concept of death. What people think qualifies changes drastically from person to person. Like in the op, some people think he is a guy that must personally bring death to everything meanwhile in many other stories he is a literally abstract concept that can only be delayed through personal health. They are completely different character: both physical and personality wise. Sometimes death can be cheated other times he is completely faking it and cheating death is a meaningless endeavor. Pretty much I don't think he truly qualifies as a composite.

 

[HeadlessKramerGeoff777]

A tad confused

 

[Keeweed]

Pretty much originally I was trying to delete Death, I was convinced otherwise, but the thing that convinced me that he should stay on this site contracted some if not most of Death's powers. In the story linked in the op death was nearly punched to death (or at least was severely harmed) by a nigh regular guy which would change his abstract existence.

But that doesn't really matter right now as another problem was brought to my attention. Composite profiles are no longer allowed and Death is almost exactly like composite Godzilla (a character that got nuked). Death isn't a character, he's a collection of completely unrelated stories that are often not even about the same death as what counts as death changes from person to person.

Also just want to point out I was just about to go to bed so sorry for the somewhat rushed explanation.

 

[MrKerf]

Still, I would say, the character is the same. Folks always describe him as a scythe wielding guy, that brings death to everything. And as well he is the consept of death itself. Usually he takes direct approach. Sometimes don't. Sometimes he can be tricked (many times), and sometimes death is inevitable. But they were describing personification of the same character. I feel like I'm back in a Scooby Doo composite debate. There are the same characters in the same canon films, yet somehow it's not enough.

 

[Keeweed]

Scooby is a defined character. Everyone knows he's a talking dog that likes Scooby snacks and goes to solve mysteries. Meanwhile Death varies from a nigh regular man to a universal concept. The only reason they talk about the same "character" is because death is a concept that almost all humans know. This isn't the same death in each stories; it's a collection on how thousands of different people viewed the concept across a continent. When people talk about Scooby doo they are talking a fictional character with a clear personality meanwhile when people talk about death it's about a concept/idea not an established character.

Anyways it super late were I live so I'll look at this thread again tomorrow.

 

[HeadlessKramerGeoff777]

Well the profile covers the Grim Reaper/Death, which in modern myth specified as death personified. His profile has a bit in common with Santa Claus (Myth) due to how much the character varies.

 

[Keeweed]

Just coming to say that I have to work today so I'll continue this thread tomorrow.

 

[Keeweed]

Well the profile covers the Grim Reaper/Death, which in modern myth specified as death personified. His profile has a bit in common with Santa Claus (Myth) due to how much the character varies.

I'm back.

Santa Claus both, shouldn't have a profile, and is a more defined character. Santa is an established character based off Saint Nick: Death is a literally concept that varies drastically from person to person. Santa is a fat guy in a red suit that gifts child presents on one day of the year, every year. Death can vary from a guy that'll try to fist fight you to a universal abstract that'll fates you to die. Some times he a walking skeleton other times he's a gust in the wind.

Santa is not comparable to Death at all. One has a clear backstory and character design while the other is a literally concept.