Death Manipulation Immunity

[Jugger47]

A few days ago I just noticed that something is missing from both Shalltears and Ainz basic undead traits list and that it was Death Manipulation Immunity/Resistance. I went ahead and added it to both profiles for now and I want to get some feedback on that and maybe some opinions on why anybody opposes that.

Directly from the Overlord wiki and light novel it states that all undead are immune to instant death spells (death manip). If anybody is stating that because Ainz was able to kill Shalltear with an instant death spell is grounds against immunity, that is just wrong, he killed her with TGOALID which is immunity/resistance negation.

Ainz has even stated back in volume 1-3 that even the strongest form of instant death magic he had wouldn't even effect regular skeletons. It is clear they are immune to in Overlord.

Also, Overlord as many of us know is directly inspired by D&D as Muryama always likes to point out. Many of its basic traits and whatnot are pulled straight from D&D. Here is a list of basic undead traits from D&D that are, as far as we know, applicable in Overlord. Many of which were already in the profile except Death Effects (Death Manipulation)

Traits
An undead creature possesses the following traits (unless otherwise noted in a creature's entry).

• Immunity to all mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects).
• Immunity to Poison, sleep effects, paralysis, stunning, disease, and death effects.
• Not subject to critical hits, nonlethal damage, ability drai, or energy drai. Immune to damage to its physical ability scores (Strength, Dexterity, and Constitutio), as well as to fatigue and exhaustio effects.
• Undead do not breathe, eat, or sleep.

EDIT: Agreed that it should be resistance to death manipulation. Should be closed.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

You cannot add immunity, as the resistance page explains.

Only resistances

 

[Jugger47]

You cannot add immunity, as the resistance page explains.
Only resistances

Mental Immunity was already there though?( I never added it)

I don't quite understand what you are saying.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Immunity doesn't exist unless you are tier 0 or high 1-A.

If it's there, it's gonna be changed to resistance.

 

[Jugger47]

You cannot add immunity, as the resistance page explains.
Only resistances

Oh and for the record im fine with adding it as a resistance, Im just saying that mental immunity was already on the profile before I even saw the profile for the first time

 

[Antoniofer]

Logically if someone is already dead it wouldn't be affected by Death Manipulation unless is Meta Death Manipulation (Shiki Tohno and Ainz are few examples of that power).

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Logically if someone is already dead it wouldn't be affected by Death Manipulation unless is Meta Death Manipulation (Shiki Tohno and Ainz are few examples of that power).

That still means immunity isn't a thing (especialy when it can be bypassed in-verse)

 

[Jugger47]

Logically if someone is already dead it wouldn't be affected by Death Manipulation unless is Meta Death Manipulation (Shiki Tohno and Ainz are few examples of that power).

Thanks for the feedback.

So should it be added as immunity or resistance in your opinion?

 

[Schnee_One]

Mental immunity should be changed to resistance

And no to Death Manipulation immunity

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Oh and for the record im fine with adding it as a resistance, Im just saying that mental immunity was already on the profile before I even saw the profile for the first time

Yeah. As resistances they are fine.

 

[Jugger47]

Logically if someone is already dead it wouldn't be affected by Death Manipulation unless is Meta Death Manipulation (Shiki Tohno and Ainz are few examples of that power).

That still means immunity isn't a thing (especialy when it can be bypassed in-verse)

I agree but not for that reason. TGOALID is an outlier, it is stated to be immunity/resistance negation. Anyways, I do more or less agree

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

But if it can be negated, it's not immunity.

 

[Jugger47]

But if it can be negated, it's not immunity.

Again I don't agree, if you look at the Negation page it even straight up says a type is immunity negation.

 

[Jugger47]

But if it can be negated, it's not immunity.

Resistance Negation

Types

• Resistance Negation
• Immunity Negation

Someone can be completely immune to something and still have it negated by a "strong" enough immunity negation. Of which, this site seems to agree with me, the rules I mean.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Yeah, but it doesn't negate it by being really strong death manip. It was agreed that tgoalid is coneptual level death hax

 

[Jugger47]

Yeah, but it doesn't negate it by being really strong death manip. It was agreed that tgoalid is coneptual level death hax

I never said thats how it negates it. If this is the case then we really aren't disagreeing about anything.

 

[Jugger47]

I changed it to resistance, and this can pretty much already be closed.

Again, thanks for all the quick feedback.

 

[OpMasada]

>It was agreed that TGOALID is conceptual

Excuse me when was this?

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

>It was agreed that TGOALID is conceptual

Excuse me when was this?

In the grasp heart one, as it kills things that arent alive. Its fodder tier conceptual, but its that all the same.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Conceptual what

 

[OpMasada]

Resistance Negation does not automatically = Conceptual......

It's called conceptual for a reason, because it has to affect CONCEPTS

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

To force deatth on inanimate objects is conceptual though.

 

[Antoniofer]

See here for examples of similar power.

 

[OpMasada]

To force deatth on inanimate objects is conceptual though.

Does it erase that inanimate object from reality? Does it actively destroy it's abstract concept?

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

You... dont need conceptual destruction to have conceptual death manip. The grim reaper (the folklore one) has conceptual stuff, but he just causes people to die.

Conceptual death at its weakest is slapping the concept on death on something.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

lol that's not conceptual at all,it's the same instant death magic but now it bypasses immunites like undead being immune.

 

[OpMasada]

You... dont need conceptual destruction to have conceptual death manip. The grim reaper (the folklore one) has conceptual stuff, but he just causes people to die.
Conceptual death at its weakest is slapping the concept on death on something.

Of course you can enforce the death upon something, but ainz doesn't even do that, he just "kills" things that are already inanimate

I don't understand your example because I don't see his profile?

 

[Antoniofer]

I think causing Death in something as long is considered conceptually alive is the only type of Meta Necrokinesis, "killing' something like a robot or a golem wouldn't qualify exactly as killing if not as Destruction/Nonexistance.