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Death of the Endless (DC) VS LEM (I/O)

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I don't know really no much about each character.


Just from reading their profiles, I'd give it to Death of the Endless via seemingly better Hax, but LEM's page isn't very detailed, so I might be wrong.
 
If Death transcends reality/fiction hierarchy, then she will win. If not - it's a draw.
 
@A6colute

Dang... I didn't know you were active. Anyways... It is better to ask @Sandman something like that. However, just based on how LEM is High 1-B, and how Death scales to High 1-B.... Unless she is a lot higher than baseline High 1-B, and i mean of Chaos Gods / Dark Tower levels... Considering both of those turned inconclusive.... Death oneshots.
 
A6colute said:
She literally oneshots.

She transcends reality/fiction hierarchy?
Maybe yes, death will claim even lucifer, destiny, and herself even though she is weaker than any of them in term of combat.
 
Unless she is a lot higher than baseline High 1-B

1. In I/O every layer contains physical dimensions + reality/fiction + non-physical planes.

2. LEM has infinity layers below her.

3. So, LEM has infinity hierarchy of reality/fiction below her + infinity hierarchy of dimensions below her + infinity hierarchy of non-physical planes below her.

4. So, if you want defeat LEM, you must transcend those hierarchies.
 
And I often hear that it is a Street level verse

I/O - if you have a problem with finding scans, than it's your own problem .
 
Those scans just show characters theorizing about the existence of infinite higher dimensions. It doesn't show proof of their existence. It doesn't show characters who are infinite-dimensional or have control over them. It doesn't show transcendence over it. It doesn't show any 1-A feat.

Seriously, gibbe scans.
 
Those scans just show characters theorizing about the existence of infinite higher dimensions.

It's authors explanation through characters.

It doesn't show proof of their existence.

You say that? If an author wants, he can explain a sctructure of the verse through characters.
 
Just link the scan of Marduk creating infinite dimensional structures in his sleep, I'd do it but I'm on mobile right now. Also why are you people believing the trend that Beyonder started of Street level I/O? Lol
 
Also why are you people believing the trend that Beyonder started of Street level I/O? Lol

Matthew Schroeder is just too childish and just hate me too much. Nothing serious, it's an old story.
 
No it isn't. It is flawed, human characters speculating about something.

I can show in-universe speculation of Warhammer 40,000 characters suggesting that the Main Tyranid Swarm is the size of a galactic cluster. Doesn't mean they are right. In fact, they are horribly wrong and are biased by fear and insanity.

And no, absolutely not. If an author wants to, he will outright show the nature of his cosmology, possibly even with something as basic as a narration over a background image of the multiverse. That scene in question shows neither.

Even the text supports me:

"It's probably a case of backwards compatibility that pertains to the laws of physics"

"I mean, there's no guarantee that there's not an even higher world that exists above the world above us that we can't see, is there?"

"It's possible that it's not merely three worlds that have superposed"

The characters aren't certain. They showcase blatant doubt in their talk, which is, of course, like all other I/O scans, devoid of further context or explanation.

That by itself doesn't prove anything. The characters are just speculating.
 
@Iapetus

It has nothing to do with the Beyonder. It has to do with multiple people who I trust, even in this wiki, saying it is Street level. People who've read it.

@A6

Drop this, now. Stop bringing up ancient dead drama and appealing to emotion and twisting my purpose. Bring up better scans, or don't..
 
The characters are just speculating.

And you have scans where they said:

Oh, no! Our theory is completely wrong! We have only street level AP!

Do you have such scans? Or not?
 
Are we really going to try to downgrade a verse on 9 month old thread based on a writer not using a heavy handed writing style, instead using character speaking hypothetically to do exposition?
 
@A6

Ever heard of the concept of Burden of Proof?

It is your job, as the person asserting a statement, to bring up undeniable facts that back up your statement. You have the job to prove a positive, not I to prove a negative.

A statement without proof is meaningless, even if it cannot be proven.

Want an example? In the backyard of my house there is a pink flying unicorn. However, unfortunately it is an invisible unicorn with powers of intangibility.

This is a statement that literally cannot be proven incorrect, but it is also meaningless, and obviously false.
 
better scans

What the f***ing shit? There are not "good" scans or "bad" scans. You cannot say that scans not good enough just because you don't like them.
 
Iapitus The Impaler said:
Are we really going to try to downgrade a verse on 9 month old thread based on a writer not using a heavy handed writing style, instead using character speaking hypothetically to do exposition?
We don't use unproven character statements for any Verse. Why should I/O stand up to receive special treatment?
 
A6colute said:
better scans
What the f***ing shit? There are not "good" scans or "bad" scans. You cannot say that scans not good enough just because you don't like them.
Chill out, my dude.

And in fact, I can. Those scans you have in the Verse Page are objectively terrible on multiple factors.

  • 1) They are horribly low-res. You couldn't have been bothered to screenshot higher quality images?
  • 2) They are devoid of any context. It would have been much preferred if you had posted the whole scene, more cosmology bits, perhaps made an Explanation Blog for I/O as a whole, containing links and scans, rather than just post the bare bones and then rant on every thread about it
  • 3) They are just unproven character speculation, coming from characters who admit their uncertainty before and after stating what they only believe may be the case.
 
Ever heard of the concept of Burden of Proof?

And I get all proofs. It's not my problem, if someone shouts that it's not enough proof.

Every proof, every scan can be stated as "not enough good". Because there are no solid criteria.
 
If you get all proofs, show me the proof. So far this is me searchin for proof:

TravoltaLost
Also, it is your problem. If the Verse you support is criticized for showing no proof of its rating, and you don't reply with proof, it will eventually be downgraded.

The solid criteria exists, and it's simple: Show undeniable feats and statements, not unproven admittedly uncertain in-universe theories.
 
No, there is an honest discussion going on. Locking it will just try to silence speech, and lead to profiles continuing being unreliable.

I would appreciate if people not start hyperbolic shouting "Oh no!" whenever people disagree, and instead just talk like adults.
 
So you are gonna favor writing who use the crappy writing style of dead pan stating shit instead of using characters to speak about their view of the world for exposition?

When Mamazuku from JJBA spends 17 pages out of a chapter saying "hey guys, I think there is this evil organisation made up of pharmasists, scientists, and doctors. It should work like this and come from the one island off the coast of Green Land," you actually think that the author isnt telling us about the enemy?
 
If the Verse you support is criticized for showing no proof

Can an author explain a cosmology through characters? Or not?

Answer yes or not.
 
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