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Deltarune CH3&4: Powers and Abilities

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FinePoint said:
They seemingly have a physical form though, no?
Click to expand...
Well this is what I mention
LittleGuy99 said:
I will repeat what others have told me:
I don’t think a ghost being able to physically interact with the world contradicts it being a spirit
And it being a candle doesn’t mean it can’t still also be a spirit

Spirits and ghosts are sometimes separated in-verse, so that’s not an issue. Avoiding certain stuff may be more so due to those things being spirit’s weakness. I think NPI should be good unless the spirit has actual anti-feats.

I want to mention that it can fly and in its form as a fireball can become visible and invisible
Also in its dialogues, it refers to itself as a ghost

Quotes:​

  • 哦哦哦！(Ooooo!) [Neutral]
  • 我鬼 (I ghost) [Neutral]
  • 鬼 (Ghost) [Neutral]
  • 我很鬼 (I'm so ghost!) [Neutral]
  • 你喜歡鬼嗎 (Do you like ghosts?) [Neutral]
On the part of Mizzle I think it makes sense to remove it
Click to expand...
But seeing what others said here I don't know what the conclusion is
Imaginym said:
Well, I'm glad we've come to some kind of agreement, no offense meant.


Surprising, since clouds are water & air.

But if standards say it's NPI, so be it, I support that, but 2 questions:

1. Elemental Intangibility is a thing, why not classify stuff like this as Negation/Nullification of Elemental Intangibility rather than giving Non-Phyical Interaction for interacting with Physicals? I guess because it's being interacted with as though it were a lot more physical than it realistically should?

2. What about the Titan Spawns & Titan as justifications for NPI? IDK off the top of my head if they have special rules being made of "darkness" -Light & Dark seem to be special in Deltarune, especially with Dark Worlds- but surely Darkness is non-physical, to say nothing of the Titan being described as:

Perhaps it's too early to tackle the Titan & such, but:

Titan Spawn:
  • [Check]
    • A shard of fear. Appears in places of deep dark.
    • Expose it to LIGHT... and gather COURAGE to gain TP.
    • Then, "BANISH" it!
  • Ralsei mutters to himself to stay calm. [Neutral]
  • Smells like adrenaline. [Neutral]
Titan:
[Check, Titan's DEFENSE up, before Regenerating]
  • TITAN - AT 40 DF 800 The fear of dark, which appears in many forms.
Also, this dialogue:

  • Ralsei, what... the hell is that thing?
  • When the Fountain's power becomes too strong...
  • When the flow of darkness roars wild...
  • It makes... that.
  • A Titan.
  • It's the fear-of-dark.
  • It's the bump-in-the-night.
  • It's the shadow of the backside of your mind.
  • It has no consciousness.
  • It only exists to destroy.
  • Well... uh...
  • How the hell are we supposed to... beat it?
  • I...
  • ... I don't think we can... It's hatching so fast.
  • ...
  • Unless...
  • Kris, you can seal Fountains, can't you?
  • Maybe... if the Titan... is anything like a Fountain...
Click to expand...
StrymULTRA said:
Given that the series seems to be a bit lax about what is a spirit, then yeah, I can see Guei being more a fire thing than a literal ghost.

Also apparently we count clouds as non-physical, so I suppose this also goes for NPI (not that it'd matter as they have SOUL hax anyway).
Click to expand...
I can't read I am a Deltarune fan
 
FinePoint said:
I feel like we really don't know enough about them to say.
Click to expand...
Do you mean about Guei (the Spirit that among other details, drinks wax, says it's a ghost in deliberately grammatically incorrect dialogue, was the focus of the last page's discussion, called a waxy spirit in its recruit description, classified as Spirit:Fire, is averse to water & whips & the like, dislikes holywater.)?
Also, part of the reason I think Strym said the series is a bit lax about what is a spirit is because Mizzle -Made of water, also gets called a fairy- is called a spirit a few times.

Or do you mean the Titan/Titan Spawn, which Ralsei & their Check indicates they are made of fear, if not fear itself (Though the Titan looks gaseous.) yet the Titan seemingly being a Dark Fountain itself, or very similar (Though the "fountain" petrifies before the Titan hatches.), is likely comprised of "Darkness"?

For all of them, we have Checks & Battle Flavour Text, viewable on the Deltarune Wiki.
For all but the Titan & Titan Spawn, we have Recruit Descriptions.

Yet you feel we don't know enough about them? About which?

AFAIK, the consensus was that Wiki policy is when interacting with physical stuff that is often treated as non-physical (Mizzle is water, Guei might be wax, fire &/or a ghost.), that qualifies for NPI.

I brought up the Titan & Titan Spawn because so far, the things the Delta Warriors hit qualify for Elemental Intangibility; Nullifying/negating that is fine & getting NPI for it is fine, but it might be good to see if harming the Titan/Titan Spawn can get them NPI that's more robust in the event policies change. (I have no plan to try to change the policies, but I do think it's strange to get NPI for damaging Elemental Intangibility. If they can have the capacity to do that AND NPI, just in case, that's nice in my eyes.)

Put briefly, if they can qualify for both negation/nullifcation of Elemental Intangibility AND have NPI, redundant as that may seem, that's good to me.
 
Imaginym said:
Do you mean about Guei (the Spirit that among other details, drinks wax, says it's a ghost in deliberately grammatically incorrect dialogue, was the focus of the last page's discussion, called a waxy spirit in its recruit description, classified as Spirit:Fire, is averse to water & whips & the like, dislikes holywater.)?
Also, part of the reason I think Strym said the series is a bit lax about what is a spirit is because Mizzle -Made of water, also gets called a fairy- is called a spirit a few times.
Click to expand...
Guei.
Imaginym said:
Yet you feel we don't know enough about them?

Guei might be wax, fire &/or a ghost.)
Click to expand...
I mean you kind of proved my point by listing three distinct things.

We clearly don't know what they're made of, or whether they're intangible.
 
FinePoint said:
Guei.

I mean you kind of proved my point by listing three distinct things.

We clearly don't know what they're made of, or whether they're intangible.
Click to expand...
Ah okay. So what of the other basises for NPI & the like? Mizzle, The Titan & The Titan Spawn?
 
FinePoint said:
Mizzle seems fine since they're water.
The Titan I'm not sure, we don't really interact with anything other than its outer shell, and Kris is able to just go inside of them.
Click to expand...
The Titan Spawn are interacted with separately, in encounters before The Titan is climbed, & their Check calls them "A shard of fear", & they can be defeated with violence.
Defeating them this way is also noted with a Slain counter in the menu. Stats or Powers, IIRC.
 
Imaginym said:
The Titan Spawn are interacted with separately, in encounters before The Titan is climbed, & their Check calls them "A shard of fear", & they can be defeated with violence.
Defeating them this way is also noted with a Slain counter in the menu. Stats or Powers, IIRC.
Click to expand...
Maybe. Kind of vague.
 
FinePoint said:
Maybe. Kind of vague.
Click to expand...
Even with them having been born of The Titan, with Ralsei's statements about it?

Check text:
  • The fear of dark, which appears in many forms.
Also, this dialogue:
  • Ralsei, what... the hell is that thing?
  • When the Fountain's power becomes too strong...
  • When the flow of darkness roars wild...
  • It makes... that.
  • A Titan.
  • It's the fear-of-dark.
  • It's the bump-in-the-night.
  • It's the shadow of the backside of your mind.
  • It has no consciousness.
  • It only exists to destroy.
  • Well... uh...
  • How the hell are we supposed to... beat it?
  • I...
  • ... I don't think we can... It's hatching so fast.
  • ...
  • Unless...
  • Kris, you can seal Fountains, can't you?
  • Maybe... if the Titan... is anything like a Fountain...

I would say based on The Titan Spawn & Mizzle, NPI seems solid. At the very least, a "Possible" or "Likely" seems warranted if they don't get it outright (Which is what I'm leaning towards.), no?
 
Imaginym said:
I would say based on The Titan Spawn & Mizzle, NPI seems solid. At the very least, a "Possible" or "Likely" seems warranted if they don't get it outright (Which is what I'm leaning towards.), no?
Click to expand...
I'd be down for Possibly.
 
Imaginym said:
Even with them having been born of The Titan, with Ralsei's statements about it?

Check text:
  • The fear of dark, which appears in many forms.
Also, this dialogue:
  • Ralsei, what... the hell is that thing?
  • When the Fountain's power becomes too strong...
  • When the flow of darkness roars wild...
  • It makes... that.
  • A Titan.
  • It's the fear-of-dark.
  • It's the bump-in-the-night.
  • It's the shadow of the backside of your mind.
  • It has no consciousness.
  • It only exists to destroy.
  • Well... uh...
  • How the hell are we supposed to... beat it?
  • I...
  • ... I don't think we can... It's hatching so fast.
  • ...
  • Unless...
  • Kris, you can seal Fountains, can't you?
  • Maybe... if the Titan... is anything like a Fountain...

I would say based on The Titan Spawn & Mizzle, NPI seems solid. At the very least, a "Possible" or "Likely" seems warranted if they don't get it outright (Which is what I'm leaning towards.), no?
Click to expand...
Now that I remember, they don't cross the walls when they chase you in dark areas?
 
Detective_Blizzard said:
I dont think that's going through walls, as the game has a lot of areas where it's just no walls anywhere and the entire area is cliffs. So it could simply just be an example of flight
Click to expand...
I have my doubts about that. The Titan Spawn chases them in a maze. Footsteps & bell-switch sounds fade out into the out-of-bounds areas, as if going inside. A bit unrealistic, since sound would bounce off walls, but if it were a chasm, sound would travel over it. But instead, the sound waves become hidden by the out-of-bounds black areas.
So it COULD be a chasm, & the sound waves get hidden by them because that'd confuse players; The sound wave visuals are meant to show players where characters & things are in that section.
But if it were a wall, that'd sort of align with why the sound wave visuals get hidden by it.

Before the section is darkened, the path is visible with a void, lit by the prophecy glass. Susie says "that's us up there", & then a hammer is thrown through it, breaking it, & the hammer isn't seen afterwards.

& FWIW, when the section ends, we see there's walls at the area with the spotlight that gets fully lit up. MAYBE The Titan Spawn took the same corridor, or they moved through the walls?

It does seem like there's a case for it. That or we couldn't see the ceilings & they were moving over the maze, rather than over chasms.
 
Detective_Blizzard said:
I dont think that's going through walls, as the game has a lot of areas where it's just no walls anywhere and the entire area is cliffs. So it could simply just be an example of flight
Click to expand...
Well yes, most of the time there are no walls (Although that is more in the third sanctuary, in the first sanctuary most areas have walls) but there are some walls in those dark areas
Example 1, Example 2 and Example 3
 
FinePoint said:
Oh, and @Agnaa was active in the discussion thread, so I assume he cares about the verse, though he can correct me if I'm wrong.
Click to expand...
Off-Site he mentioned that he doesn't want to really powerscale this verse, but he could say so explicitly to clear doubts.

And yeah, what happens if none answers even then? Y'all just let this verse die for the sake of the "glacial pace"?
 
I suppose that with these two votes of Thread Moderators it is enough
Wait no, I think I'm wrong and there are 3 votes now, I will wait more just in case
 
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