Deltarune: Chapter 5 (SPOILER!!) Discussion Thread

[RinneItachi]

Spoiler: Mechanic Stuff

So, we've got some interesting stuff in this chapter, most notably the fact that the whole mechanic aspect is actually being addressed.

Ralsei states that we normally perceive these mechanics (or layers) through the subconscious. That's a pretty interesting detail, because it suggests that the separation between FIGHT, ACT, ITEM, SPARE, and DEFENSE may not actually exist in a conventional sense within the setting itself.

Instead, it seems more like the characters are simply thinking (during those turn), while what we perceive as a turn-based sequence is just the subconscious processing those actions. The reason we see it as distinct "phases" could be because we're observing that subconscious layer rather than the events as they occur in real time.

In other words, the subconscious appears to function as the basis for the turn-based mechanic. The turns themselves may not be literal pauses in reality, but rather a representation of thought and decision-making being translated into gameplay.

Oh I completely forgor about this.

Spoiler: Ch5

Huge lore context for sure. Implies a certain level of meta awareness too of some of the characters. Ralsei and Flowery are described as anomalies, and it's implied that as a result of their nature they have an inherent and deeper understanding of the world, but even more so for Ralsei of course, knowing of the Prophecy and such, and believing he could kill Flowery at any point if he wanted to. The Knight has awareness too.

 

[Echidnacodefan2512]

"THEY eated them"

 

[GPR_Shadow]

Spoiler

Noooo onion-san

 

[GodlyCharmander]

The main Flowery boss fight is so tough, yet when he fuses with the other flowers to become Omega Flowery he’s a complete joke. Bro forgot he could do literally anything else but charge forward. I get it’s supposed to be more of a victory lap for the fight, but it feels weird for a fusion of all the flowers + an Omega Flowey reference to go down so easily compared to the base form.

Orange Soul Kris should scale 7x above their base self

 

[Ghengiroo115]

Oh I completely forgor about this.

Spoiler: Ch5

Huge lore context for sure. Implies a certain level of meta awareness too of some of the characters. Ralsei and Flowery are described as anomalies, and it's implied that as a result of their nature they have an inherent and deeper understanding of the world, but even more so for Ralsei of course, knowing of the Prophecy and such, and believing he could kill Flowery at any point if he wanted to. The Knight has awareness too.

Wonder if Ralsei should have “8-A, possibly 7-B”/“7-B, possibly higher” for his keys then if he holds back so much. He seems to be scared of the Knight just like the others, but that might just be due to him feeling the need to hold back (plus the Knight could still be stronger than Ralsei’s full power).

Speaking of which, I wonder if Kris fighting Omega Flowery adds extra credence to the idea of them holding back and/or having some emotional power boost as well. We’ve seen them deal way more damage against Tenna if Sword Route was completed, and against the Knight if Susie and/or Ralsei are SWOONed. Now we have them singlehandedly fighting on par with a stronger version of a guy who was just fighting against the entire Gang at once.

 

[RinneItachi]

Spoiler: Weird Route Discussion

So, there seems to be multiple interpretations of this scene, a common one being that Kris and Noelle committed suicide, which I disagree with. Mine is that Noelle and Kris somehow glitched out of the game's boundaries while sinking into the bottom. After all, why all the foreshadowing on her blog about her having a knack for finding bugs in games if not for something like this to happen? And the whole point of the Weird Route being that only through Noelle's power can we violate the laws of the Dark World's and actually kill enemies. I believe Dess somehow or another broke the same bug a long time ago, maybe trying to swim across the Lake, which is why there's someone, again, probably Dess, talking in the game's code and being somewhere completely dark. And how the little gif in the opening Vessel cutscene is, iirc, actually an edited clip of waves, I forget the details. I believe we've sunk out of the game's intended boundaries made by Gaster.

So my expectation based on the "Chapter 7 Side B" thing is this;

The Weird Route is, for now, concluded, and will not have a presence in Chapter 6 beyond, at most, aborted Weird Route content.

I believe that Chapter 7 will have 2 completely different storylines, Side A and Side B, Side A will be the normal route, prophecy, normal story ending. Side B will obviously be the Weird Route and will skip over Chapter 6 entirely. I honestly can't predict how it'll go from there, but at this point I'm expecting a direct Gaster appearance.

All of this is also making me think Dess either actually isn't the RK after all, or somehow both is and isn't in a way I can't really describe.

Also Sans may actually be from a Weird Route timeline...

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Wonder if Ralsei should have “8-A, possibly 7-B”/“7-B, possibly higher” for his keys then if he holds back so much. He seems to be scared of the Knight just like the others, but that might just be due to him feeling the need to hold back (plus the Knight could still be stronger than Ralsei’s full power).

Speaking of which, I wonder if Kris fighting Omega Flowery adds extra credence to the idea of them holding back and/or having some emotional power boost as well. We’ve seen them deal way more damage against Tenna if Sword Route was completed, and against the Knight if Susie and/or Ralsei are SWOONed. Now we have them singlehandedly fighting on par with a stronger version of a guy who was just fighting against the entire Gang at once.

"7-B'

You know that people will try to upgrade these characters to 4-B after that sun thing, right? Even though the verse has absolutely no feats on that scale and I'm not allowed to point out the obvious Tier 9 anti-feats.

 

[RinneItachi]

Wonder if Ralsei should have “8-A, possibly 7-B”/“7-B, possibly higher” for his keys then if he holds back so much. He seems to be scared of the Knight just like the others, but that might just be due to him feeling the need to hold back (plus the Knight could still be stronger than Ralsei’s full power).

Speaking of which, I wonder if Kris fighting Omega Flowery adds extra credence to the idea of them holding back and/or having some emotional power boost as well. We’ve seen them deal way more damage against Tenna if Sword Route was completed, and against the Knight if Susie and/or Ralsei are SWOONed. Now we have them singlehandedly fighting on par with a stronger version of a guy who was just fighting against the entire Gang at once.

Spoiler: Ch. 5

I think it's likely yeah, especially if he can manipulate his stats freely, even if they're apparently fake.

I think it's an emotional thing, but it is possible since after all Kris is playing along for their own motives. But emotional state's are very relevant to power in Toby's verses, so both possibilities are likely.

 

[Ghengiroo115]

Orange Soul Kris should scale 7x above their base self

They should have something that scales them to 7x their base, though I don’t think it’s the Orange Soul that gives them that power as they have it for the whole fight. The Orange Soul might give the Gang some kind of power boost since they fight a Flowery empowered by his recruits, though that depends on how strong base Flowery even is (I don’t remember if he has anything notable that isn’t just fake stats or anything like that).

"7-B'

You know that people will try to upgrade these characters to 4-B after that sun thing, right? Even though the verse has absolutely no feats on that scale and I'm not allowed to point out the obvious Tier 9 anti-feats.

I was just using the current ratings as a placeholder.

 

[RinneItachi]

Oh and I did the Egg room thing.

Spoiler: Egg Room

Kind of a weird one? Like the previous ones had similar mysterious/ominous vibes and the man did speak to us a bit, but this one he just kind of emoted. Interesting that Toby was there for the puzzle. This one had a much more carefree vibe, which I guess fits into the chapter overall.

 

[Edutyn]

oh

 

[Edutyn]

The main Flowery boss fight is so tough, yet when he fuses with the other flowers to become Omega Flowery he’s a complete joke. Bro forgot he could do literally anything else but charge forward. I get it’s supposed to be more of a victory lap for the fight, but it feels weird for a fusion of all the flowers + an Omega Flowey reference to go down so easily compared to the base form.

I think it's implied that he was holding back, especially since after the battle he says, “I hesitated.”

Or maybe I misinterpreted the scene

 

[RinneItachi]

Also.

Spoiler: Friend

Friend instantly reducing everyone's HP to 1 is insane, if Friend is an actual fight....

 

[GodlyCharmander]

A quick reminder, anyone planning to do a revision, you can use this "album" to gather new feats and evidence:


All new stats and recruits on this album:

Also.

Spoiler: Friend

Friend instantly reducing everyone's HP to 1 is insane, if Friend is an actual fight....

When did that happen btw? I didn't encounter them

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

absolute Deltarune

 

[Ghengiroo115]

I think it's implied that he was holding back, especially since after the battle he says, “I hesitated.”

Or maybe I misinterpreted the scene

I think he just means he didn’t put all his power into the final clash. The usage of the word “hesitated” instead of something like “why couldn’t i go all out against you” implies it was a last minute reaction and not him holding back the entire phase.

 

[Ghengiroo115]

A quick reminder, anyone planning to do a revision, you can use this "album" to gather new feats and evidence:


All new stats and recruits on this album:



When did that happen btw? I didn't encounter them

I can’t see the albums