Desparado vs Power of Miracles

[Dragonmasterxyz]

The battle between two passive Fate based powers that bypass Type 4 and are completely bullshit.

Rakudai vs Digimon

Fate of Death vs Fate of Victory

Honestly, don't know how these two powers will interact at all do to the nature of them being very...OP in their own verses.

-Rhinomon X is being used.

Edelweiss: 0

Rhinomon: 0

Inconclusive: 0

Tagged Rakudai experts: @Firephoenixearl @Ionliosite

 

[Firephoenixearl]

So like...passives exist, both lose gg?

Also Dragon add tags to the match.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

That's kinda what I assumed would happen between Edel vs any of the Miracle users. But I know this match would have to be made eventually.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

What does Power of Miracles do exactly?

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Basically, making events happen in a way that cause the user to win.

"Due to the properties of the Digimental of Miracles, Rhinomon has a miraculous ability to overcome any predicament placed before it, thus enacting a "miracle" as the origin its power implies. As a result, a series of coincidences will occur that will guarantee Rhinomon's victory no matter what odds it faces."

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Ok so what happens if Rhinomon is too scared to fight?

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

How Digimon react to something like this is kinda up in the air considering they are more than willing to fight higher level opponents who they know they have no chance against. However, in Rhinomon's case, it'll likely know that it can create Miracles even in certain odds so there is the chance that it'll continue to fight, relying solely on its Miracle Powers.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Also Dragon add tags to the match.

^^^

However, in Rhinomon's case, it'll likely know that it can create Miracles even in certain odds so there is the chance that it'll continue to fight, relying solely on its Miracle Powers.

Im not gonna argue that cus i don't know the character. However would the Power of Miracles be able to do something against causality itself? Cus it can create miracles but what if Edel's participation in the fight isn't needed to end it.

To be a bit more specific, can the Power of Miracles create a miracle where Rhino doesn't get blown to pieces by raw causality?

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

The Power of Miracles does whatever is needed to make the user win. It would make it so that Rhinomon isn't killed per it creating a Miracle in which Rhinomon doesn't actually die or get blown to pieces in the first place. Edel's participation isn't really a factor here as the overall Miracle is Rhinomon winning despite the odds against it. So as I noted, the Miracle would be Rhinomon either not dying or for some reason, the Desperado doesn't end up killing him. Although I may not be fully understanding the question here.

At the same time, maybe Desperado ends up being the victorious Fate hax and Rhinomon gets lolexploded and dies. Hence why I say that it kinda changes with each situation.

btw, to save time, IIRC, the Desperado hax also relies on the threat being able to visualize their death or imagine it right? What happens if the victim couldn't possibly visualize something that could kill them?

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Also Dragon add tags to the match.

How do you add tags to a match after you post it?

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

There's a Tag Emblem near the Title.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Yeah I fixed it.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

What i mean by the desperado just explodes him is desperado hax seems to be far more aggressive. Also desperado can redraw their fate or "erase possible defeat". So in terms of pure aggressiveness desperado seems to take the cake here.

The passive one yeah it relies on your own image of death. Though I doubt a character with no immortalities can't imagine death, cus a simple hit will kill him, how probable that is is another issue doesn't mean that rhino doesn't know that a slice will kill him.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

The "doesn't affect people who can't visualise death" would apply to someone like Akabane who specifically can't imagine his own death.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Desperado is more aggressive, however the issue is that the Power of Miracles is very defensive. Just as Desperado's erase possible defeat, the Power of Miracles makes it so that no matter what, the user wins. Both powers are kinda in a situation in which they both constantly fight to overwrite each other and constantly rewriting fate to make it so that they win no matter what.

This wasn't for Rhinomon actually. I was actually speaking of the Eaters which are other 6-Cs from Digimon. It would be literally bullshit to argue that Rhinomon cannot imagine him dying considering while all Digimon have Type 1 Immortality, he knows other Digimon can kill other Digimon. So him imagining himself dying from a Digimon's attack is not too crazy.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

I mean has it ever worked like that against other fate hax? Can it create a future that cannot exist? Can it do it fast enough before desperado passively rewrite rhino's fate to be death?

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

It worked against other characters with Type 4 who transcend past, present and future and are completely unaffected by the past, present and future being erased and reset. Two Miracle fighters have never fought each other. Once again, it creates Miracles where in truth, the user should not win. It's just as passive as Desperado. Hell, Magnamon during the end of D-Cyber was able to share his Power of Miracles with the likes of Alphamon and the main protags, and despite them literally losing, a series of events immediately started occuring that led to them being victorious over Dexmon who had become one with the entire Digital World itself. Dunno if it being a passive that works on Immeasurables matters here or not considering we say that those with Immeasurable speed are faster than passive abilities normally.

Desperado would rewrite Rhino's fate to be death while the PoM would work to make sure that despite these odds that Rhinomon emerges victorious. Also, apparently, the Power of Miracles have resurrected the dead before.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

They have resurrected the dead before? W0t?

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

They have resurrected the dead before? W0t?

Yeah, Ex brought that up. So I am asking for that one (as it isn't on the profiles right now).

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Btw Will rhino be able to push through all the visions and pain of death?

 

[00potato]

Probably, assuming it would even work when his own fatehax exists and he is well aware of it.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Even I cannot answer that question considering no Rhinomon has no set personality. The Pain of Death likely won't deter it. However, whether the visions will deter it is up in the air.

To specify, most Digimon don't really have a set personality or intellect as they vary among each member. Hence why dealing with this stuff and Digimon makes it even more complicated as Rhinomon knows he has the power of Miracles, so it is reasonably that it unlike other Digimon would still fight as they know what abilities they have. (Power of Miracles would also started taking effect before Desperado). I dunno. All we can say is that "a Digimon would start a fight with their signature moves or mainline skills more times than not".

In other news, I found that the Power of Miracles has in fact resurrect the dead lol

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Probably, assuming it would even work when his own fatehax exists and he is well aware of it.

Why would the fate hax stop him from having visions?

Dragon:

Why would he not be deterred by pain?

Why would pom take effect before desperado? Unless you mean because he has to act first.

Also why the "would start with X"? I was asking if he will start or not.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Really comes down to the idea that feeling pain won't really stop or deter a Digimon when they are more than willing to fight people who can erase them from existence with a simple blast. I doubt him feeling a ton of pain is gonna scare him off. Especially when it's very nature is to continue to fight powerful opponents (this is a trait directly mentioned for it).

If I understand how we treat passives right, Passives work at like Infinite speed and Immeasurable characters are superior to that. The Power of Miracles are able to work on Immeasurable speed characters in an instant. So Desperado would be working at Infinite Speed and the Power of Miracles would be working at Immeasurable speed.

I was detailing why I cannot say whether Rhinomon would without a doubt just run away after seeing death or feeling the pain of death. I say that it is likely it won't, but I cannot say anything for sure. Overall, Rhinomon knowing it has the PoM would in my eyes, lead it to thinking that it can overcome anything.

 

[Schnee_One]

Wait aren’t miracles probability manipulation?

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Threated as Probability and Fate.

 

[Schnee_One]

Unless it has feats of effecting Type 4 that's not working

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Unless it has feats of effecting Type 4 that's not working

It does.

 

[Schnee_One]

Then it might work, is there a scaling chain for the abilities? Edel stands atop quite a few desperado's in terms of their hax affecting eachother.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

It worked against other characters with Type 4 who transcend past, present and future and are completely unaffected by the past, present and future being erased and reset. Two Miracle fighters have never fought each other. Once again, it creates Miracles where in truth, the user should not win. It's just as passive as Desperado. Hell, Magnamon during the end of D-Cyber was able to share his Power of Miracles with the likes of Alphamon and the main protags, and despite them literally losing, a series of events immediately started occuring that led to them being victorious over Dexmon who had become one with the entire Digital World itself. Dunno if it being a passive that works on Immeasurables matters here or not considering we say that those with Immeasurable speed are faster than passive abilities normally.

Rhinomon uses the same Power of Miracles as Magnamon (as it is a power granted by the Digimental of Miracles).

 

[Schnee_One]

In that case Edel probably just gets an aneurysm and dies or some shit

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

I think I should specify that the Power of Miracles is a passive self Fate Hax. PoM has never been a thing that causes the opponent to just die. All it has ever done is make it so that the user got everything they needed to win and protected them. Or in one case, resurrected someone from Death (which in Digimon, means being erased into nothingness.) At the end of D-Cyber, Magnamon bestowed his Power of Miracles to the protags and the instant he did, Agumon was able to evolve, Ouryumon was literally brought back from death and Alphamon was able to reach Ouryuken and seal away Dexmon who became one with the Digital World. This was after it was literally impossible for them to win at that point and seal him away normally. They directly state that the Power of Miracles was the only reason they defeated Dexmon. So it has never been "Let's make our enemy just not be able to do anything" and more "Let's grant ourselves the ability to overcome and defeat someone or something when we really shouldn't be able to".

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Really comes down to the idea that feeling pain won't really stop or deter a Digimon when they are more than willing to fight people who can erase them from existence with a simple blast. I doubt him feeling a ton of pain is gonna scare him off. Especially when it's very nature is to continue to fight powerful opponents (this is a trait directly mentioned for it).

I mean fair but continuously experiencing death over and over?

If I understand how we treat passives right, Passives work at like Infinite speed and Immeasurable characters are superior to that. The Power of Miracles are able to work on Immeasurable speed characters in an instant. So Desperado would be working at Infinite Speed and the Power of Miracles would be working at Immeasurable speed.

The whole "passive = infinite" and "passive < immesurable" is dumb to begin with, it's just commonly believed by people, not really something that logically makes sense.



Well there are 2 ways this fight can go:

A) Rhinomon decides to say "f this shit im out" and not fight due to the passives
B) Inconclusive, both keep rewriting fate

Im gonna vote Edelweiss simply because she has more chances to win than lose in this one.

 

[Schnee_One]

Even if both work at a different speed they both effect eachother instantly anyway so neither are infinite

 

[00potato]

I mean why would he leave when he is aware of the power of miracles? Again it isn’t super weird for a normal digimon to fight far stronger opponents, especially one with the passive win button of the power of miracles.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Ok but he will keep experiencing his death over and over along with the pain, that shit's not light on your mental health if ya dig me.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Oh btw Dragon is this for the 3rd strongest 6-C match? Or are there better digimons there?

 

[00potato]

Ok but he will keep experiencing his death over and over along with the pain, that shit's not light on your mental health if ya dig me.

When he knows that those likely won’t happen, why would those effects him?
Also Digimon psychology has no reason to be compared to human psychology.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

When he knows that those likely won’t happen, why would those effects him?

I mean, why would he not be scared of it either way? It's more likely he'll be extra scared because his opponent is showing him that he'll die despite the fact that the has a probability ability, leading him to think he's just that much stronger.

Also Digimon psychology has no reason to be compared to human psychology.

What's that gotta do with anything here though?

 

[00potato]

I mean just because you see those visions doesn’t make them true, someone with the power of miracles would definitely know that it likely wouldn’t turn out that way. (would that even work on a digimon? visions are all in the mind and they have completely different minds to humans.)