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Devil May Cry: Hypertimeline

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Recap and Requirements

Firstly, I wish to start off with the fact that the entire Underworld was proven to be a significant 5D space here. In respect of it, I have also made this cosmology page where it was made very clear that universes are separated by an Orthogonal space between them. Therefore, it would be our indefinite 5D space aka the 4th degree of freedom between proper space-time continuums.
As for proving the perpendicular direction of inner realms, I wish to utilize the following article concerning Hypertimelines made by Profectus who worked on Dragon Ball cosmology that states:

Is orthogonality a requirement?​

Yes, but not in the sense that it's required evidence. If a substantial space-time continuum under an overarching timeline is recognized as being serviced by its own time dimension, then the overarching timeline is automatically considered orthogonal: hence why the wording for the temporal dimension standards was revised compared to the citation above. A statement for the overarching timeline being orthogonal is all in all: supporting or alternative evidence, but not required evidence if a lesser space-time is already recognized as harboring a self-contained temporal dimension.
Hence, all we need is to prove the proper self-contamination of individual space-times to come to a relevant conclusion for orthogonality.

Human World

Long ago, there existed only Darkness which we call the Underworld. Within it, a ray of Light eventually came into existence which became what is known as Human World. The two were portrayed as opposing to each other as light and darkness on multiple occasions, even end up being considered the duality of nature altogether. They both are also noted to possess different laws from one another.

Eventually, the Demon God Pluto deemed light to be meaningless within the world of darkness and cast it beyond the boundaries of the Demon World entirely. This point becomes important because the world that was separated from the higher bulk of space did not lose its own temporal functionality. Instead, it continued possessing its own active flow of time despite no longer being a part of the original greater structure.

Furthermore, in DMC2, an event occurs where the Underworld begins merging back with the Human World. As this convergence proceeds, multiple abnormalities happened that includes the flow of time of the whole world being stopped and portals connecting to past and future starts appearing and thus, temporal paradoxes begin to occur which allowed enemies who died in the past starts reappearing in the present. I wish to emphasize it again that the Human World is NO LONGER part of Demon World at this point and yet these phenomenons clearly showcases the temporality of Human World which is being subjected to chaos at this point.

From here, our devil hunter (Dante) ultimately escapes this looping structure by utilizing the same portal to reach the source of the phenomenon and halt the merger (Demon God Argosax) from accomplishing the process. Regardless, the important part here is that the narrative consistently treats these worlds different from each other in every way possible — even in higher-lower regards rather than a simple neighboring locations. In fact, we have instances where one realm usually ends up consuming the other one on multiple occasions.

Nirvana Dimensions

For more SUPPORTING EVIDENCE, we move further into the Demon World where we encounter the Nirvana realms which are collection of nine dimensions existing within the chaotic expanse of the Demon World itself, each separated through portals and governed by distinct rules and principles. Some examples include:
The final example is particularly relevant given If the player fails to eliminate the demons within the allotted time, the entire dimension reverts to its original temporal state which ends up effectively resetting causality of the whole place. Such a reset implies temporal isolation since a universal temporal framework should propagate changes uniformly rather than permit an enclosed region to independently rewind itself while surrounding structures remain unaffected. This same dimension is also implied to be infinite in scale which further reinforce its standing as a substantial space-time structure rather than a trivial pocket space.

The Chaos Timeline And Underworld

Chaos Timeline is the "cracks" of world, a place that is considered a rift between all realms of Underworld where the rules of space and time are different, solidifying its independent nature as compared to your conventional space and time, metaphysically speaking. Now, here is the important part, it was theorized within Chaos Timeline that space and time is connected via theory of relativity and the larger the space is, the slower the time would become. And for us to escape that place, we need the combination of both space and time artifact going in a harmony to create a space-time rift strong enough to escape it. This confirms one important detail, that all of space is connected by a layer of time within Underworld or Chaos timeline for that matter. Moreover, we have a particular statement that states the "world" of demons is temporally sealed. A singular word that compiles the entire Underworld or Chaos Timeline by a single stream of time encompassing it all alongside the fact that the Darkness which was clearly stated to be Demon World is later referred to be "eternal" in Devil May Cry 1 Brady's guidebook.

So, in case you haven't realized it yet, the Demon World itself have a perpendicular axis of time on its own. This perpendicular time here now makes continuous, uncountable, infinite copies of that 5D axis, making it a full-fleshed significant structure for us to scale. Granting Demon World 1-C (6D) as if the term "Chaos timeline" isn't indicative enough from a nominalistic sense already.

Conclusion

The points that needs to be noted are:
  1. Every space is accompanied by its own axis of time to the point where these qualities are considered to be inextricably tied as a copy of the theory of relativity.
  2. Separate laws of space and time in comparison to conventional space-times.
  3. Own flow of time as noted by it being stopped once Sparda sealed the Demon World, implying its hypertimeline nature as the inner worlds still function in relation to their separate temporal behavior.
  4. Been characterized by eternal that reflects temporal activity.
When this is considered alongside the Human World's independence from the Demon World as a stable structure operating totally outside of this higher dimensional flow of time as well as the supporting evidence provided by Nirvana dimensions having all possible distinctive characteristics from each other, I believe it becomes reasonable to interpret these realms as operating under a genuine hypertimeline structure.

Votes

Agree: @Random-Helper323 (Mod)
Neutral:
Disagree:
 
Last edited:
so like, im not totally against dmc wank because this verse is peak but theres a few things im a bit concerned about regarding the "hypertimeline"

A hypertimeline specifically governs lesser timelines and records snapshots of those timelines that can be accessed via the hypertimeline. I see none of that here. None of this actually necessitates a hyper timeline, higher dimensions can govern lower ones and have their own flow of time but that doesnt mean their time is a hypertime (+2 temporal) it would just be the normal flow of time for that dimension (so just +1 temporal). This just proves they flow on a seperate time axis making them seperate space-times but thats kinda it, im not seeing a hypertimeline personally.
 
so like, im not totally against dmc wank because this verse is peak but theres a few things im a bit concerned about regarding the "hypertimeline"

A hypertimeline specifically governs lesser timelines and records snapshots of those timelines that can be accessed via the hypertimeline. I see none of that here. None of this actually necessitates a hyper timeline, higher dimensions can govern lower ones and have their own flow of time but that doesnt mean their time is a hypertime (+2 temporal) it would just be the normal flow of time for that dimension (so just +1 temporal). This just proves they flow on a seperate time axis making them seperate space-times but thats kinda it, im not seeing a hypertimeline personally.
I have already addressed these issues though? The important part is that the Underworld itself is repeatedly treated as a singular greater structure while containing realms that exhibit independent temporal behavior. The Human World continues its own temporal progression after being separated from the original Darkness. The Nirvana dimensions can undergo localized temporal resets without propagating those changes throughout the rest of the Underworld. The Chaos Timeline is described as a realm where space and time operate under their own laws while simultaneously serving as the connective structure between realms.

I mean, sure, you are free to doubt it but from what I seen personally? I think this should suffice.
 
DW accesses pasts and futures of HW like picking still frames from timeline of a video. Not just that its literally merging all past/present/future of HW like mashing up all frames/layers in photoshop.

Arius mentions how DW will take what it owns and HW belongs to it, taking everything back to old universe where HW was born inside DW. The lifespan of HW is constant manipulated by DW trying to pull HW inside itself.
would you mind quoting it? the only mention of argosax in the op doesnt read like this at all
can't. on mobile and busy.
 
So gonna ask some things that I am curious on if the supporters don't mind.
As far as I am aware of a Hypertimeline is usually a higher flow of time independent of other timelines governing them and one that takes snapshots of another timeline seeing that timeline as a static moment,
From my meagre understanding of the OP it's essentially
  • Verse follows theory of relativity
  • Space and time are unified as a singular space-time which are dependent on each other I.e time accompanies space
  • Universes have their own space-time and timeline
  • Said space-time and timelines are independent from other space-times
  • A 5-D spatial plane exists ----» It must have it's own space-time i.e time that must exist with the space making it +1D
I have nothing against this because it is a reasonable extrapolation by all means but that isn't what a Hypertimeline is afaik so why classify it as a Hypertimeline slop.
Stuff like a different flow of time
Instead, it continued possessing its own active flow of time
that includes the flow of time of the whole world being stopped and portals connecting to past and future starts appearing and thus, temporal paradoxes begin to occur which allowed enemies who died in the past starts reappearing in the present.
Only goes to show the independence of these realms instead of asserting why a Hypertimeline is actually applicable. I will quote the FAQ
Things like timelines having time that passes at different rates would not qualify, as even the theory of general relativity already establishes that with just one regular time dimension time can flow at different rates in different places. Time flowing backwards in another universe would also not qualify it to have an additional time dimension, as it would still use the same directions of past and future as regular time, just with events playing out in reverse. For the same reasons, statements about independent time streams or of separate kinds of time, which could flow parallel to the original time, would not qualify.
Neither would dimensions that are timeless voids or are described as beyond spacetime in general qualify. Unless they contradict themselves, these realms should not have a time dimension at all, with change in them happening according to other principles. If they, on the other hand, do contradict themselves, the statement of them not having regular time would inherently not be reliable, making the idea equally unusable.
So what would qualify ?
Again quoting the FAQ
However, caution is necessary. As explained above, we require that the additional time dimension is "a line comprised of uncountably infinitely many points." If new versions of timelines are only created if they are changed, due to time travel for example, then the number of "snapshots" of the timeline would be far more limited. The amount of snapshots would be one more than the times the timeline was changed. So, for example, if the timeline is rewritten 2 times, there would be 3 snapshots of the timeline: the original, the timeline after the first rewrite and the timeline after the second rewrite. That are far less than the required uncountably infinitely many.

Aside from direct statements, the easiest way to confirm that the line is comprised of uncountably infinitely many points/"snapshots" is to show that the development of the timelines is time-like. I.e. typically one would want a statement indicating that the alteration of the timelines is subject to its own flow of time, or that special time travel can go to prior versions of the timelines instead of the past
TLDR
  • I am not opposed to the rating
  • I am against classifying this as a Hypertimeline
If there's actual evidence like time travelling back before the destruction of a timeline or seeing other timelines as static frames feel free to include those in the OP because rn it's about seperation and an extrapolation on why a higher space should have this flow of time rather than a Hypertimeline
 
Are you guys even reading? The arius part literally mentions world reverting to its original form when HW existed inside DW. This is not two adjacent timelines merging to become one. This is "bigger" timeline pulling "smaller" timeline inside itself while merging all of past/present/future of lower timeline into one bungled chaos, like some eldrtich horror mom "unbirthing" her own child via womb vore, which is consuming not just the current present version of child but also all its past and future versions by mashing them up together and eating them to become pregnant again.
The disgusting analogy isn't even inaccurate because Demon World is mother to Human World.
 
So gonna ask some things that I am curious on if the supporters don't mind.
As far as I am aware of a Hypertimeline is usually a higher flow of time independent of other timelines governing them and one that takes snapshots of another timeline seeing that timeline as a static moment,
From my meagre understanding of the OP it's essentially
  • Verse follows theory of relativity
  • Space and time are consolidated as a singular space-time which are dependent on each other I.e time accompanies space
  • Universes have their own space-time and timeline
  • Said space-time and timelines are independent from one another
  • A 5-D spatial plane exists ----» It must have it's own space-time and timeline making it +1D
I have nothing against this because it is a reasonable extrapolation by all means but that isn't what a Hypertimeline is afaik so why classify it as a Hypertimeline slop.
Stuff like a different flow of time


Only goes to show the independence of these realms instead of asserting why a Hypertimeline is actually applicable. I will quote the FAQ

So what would qualify ?
Again quoting the FAQ

TLDR
  • I am not opposed to the rating
  • I am against classifying this as a Hypertimeline
If there's actual evidence like time travelling back before the destruction of a timeline or seeing other timelines as static frames feel free to include those in the OP because rn it's about seperation and an extrapolation on why a higher space should have this flow of time rather than a Hypertimeline
I think there is a misunderstanding regarding what the argument actually is. I'm not arguing that the Underworld qualifies as a hypertimeline merely because different realms have different rates or flows of time. I agree that such evidence alone would not satisfy the FAQ as relativity already allows different temporal rates within a single time dimension.

The reason I'm focusing on temporal independence is because it serves as evidence that these are distinct space-times rather than regions sharing a common timeline. You understand what I'm saying, right? The FAQ's rejection of independent time streams is aimed at situations where multiple timelines simply co-exist parallel to one another. However, the argument here is that the Underworld itself functions as a greater structure encompassing realms that already possess their own self-contained temporal dimensions, especially Human World which was literally kicked of the temporally encompassing structure of Demon World, have different laws in comparison to it and yet, we are aware that time inside it functions just fine.

Again, I'm not attempting to derive an additional temporal dimension from differing rates of time but rather:
  1. Individual realms are substantial space-times with their own temporal dimensions.
  2. These realms demonstrate temporal isolation from one another alongside having different laws as supportive evidence.
  3. The Underworld/Chaos Timeline acts as a singular overarching structure connecting or encompassing those realms.
  4. The Underworld itself is associated with its own temporal axis.
Once a self-contained space-time is recognized as possessing its own temporal dimension (Human World), an overarching temporal structure containing such structures is generally interpreted as temporally orthogonal to them. Hence, why Profectus' article specifically notes that an overarching timeline need not literally be shown storing snapshots if subordinate space-times with their own time dimensions are already established.

Like come on, we literally have the Demon World being subjected to temporal effects on a larger scale (time stop) while inner realms continue to exhibit their own temporal behavior (Nirvana dimensions working just fine).
 
Hence, why Profectus' article specifically notes that an overarching timeline need not literally be shown storing snapshots if subordinate space-times with their own time dimensions are already established.
We may not need it but WE DO HAVE IT, DMC2 for the win again, and the 3 manga.
 
Genuinely just throw how Human World works outside of Demon World and everything is solved lel.
 
Are you guys even reading? The arius part literally mentions world reverting to its original form when HW existed inside DW. This is not two adjacent timelines merging to become one. This is "bigger" timeline pulling "smaller" timeline inside itself while merging all of past/present/future of lower timeline into one bungled chaos, like some eldrtich horror mom "unbirthing" her own child via womb vore, which is consuming not just the current present version of child but also all its past and future versions by mashing them up together and eating them to become pregnant again.
The disgusting analogy isn't even inaccurate because Demon World is mother to Human World.
Again I am not looking at any scans substantiating this "bigger" timeline pulling "smaller" timeline inside itself while merging all of past/present/future of lower timeline into one bungled chaos
Like I said, if there's actually such evidence then share them because all I came across were these scans
VLeQLu3.jpeg

latest

OOtMsOx.png

ndQi4al.png


So again if there's anything that shows a higher flow of time encompassing the past, present and future of another timeline and treating it as a static snapshot or enabling travelling to prior states of said timeline by all means I am fine with it. I just didn't come across that whilst reading the OP. Might have missed it.
-----
However, the argument here is that the Underworld itself functions as a greater structure encompassing realms that already possess their own self-contained temporal dimensions, especially Human World which was literally kicked of the temporally encompassing structure of Demon World, have different laws in comparison to it and yet, we are aware that time inside it functions just fine.
Yes but what I am saying is that, "Is there any substantial evidence that points to the Underworld's timeline being a greater flow of time, one that treats these other independent timelines as static snapshots ?"
I was under the impression that you need additional proof for Hypertimeline rather that merely the existence of a greater space one that contains smaller spaces with their own independent timeline but that might be a me thing. I don't even get the point of arguing for a Hypertimeline because the rating would be the same regardless.
 
Yes but what I am saying is that, "Is there any substantial evidence that points to the Underworld's timeline merely being a greater flow of time, one that treats these other independent timelines as static snapshots ?"
I was under the impression that you need additional proof for Hypertimeline rather that merely the existence of a greater space one that contains smaller spaces with their own independent timeline but that might be a me thing.
I don't think snapshot-style evidence is strictly required? My understanding is that the snapshot model is one way of demonstrating temporal orthogonality but not the only way, atleast that's what I seen from other verses that utilizes the same concept. The important part is establishing that the subordinate realms are genuine space-times with their own self-contained temporal dimensions while simultaneously existing within a larger temporal framework that possesses its own temporal progression.

uh there's a lot more there in the OP on this topic lmao, Sonic may have messed up a bit, but its not that bad.
:V
 
Is there any evidence of the present totality of a Low 1-C structure being an object within the greater timeline in regards to changing within it? As in, is it possible to travel through time to a time before the Chaos Timeline, or at least something of its scale, existed or after they are destroyed? Or failing that does the spatial aspect Demon World change over time for this timeline?

The OP does also meander around a lot. The number of these dimensions is largely irrelevant here if already accepted.
 
Is there any evidence of the present totality of a Low 1-C structure being an object within the greater timeline in regards to changing within it? As in, is it possible to travel through time to a time before the Chaos Timeline, or at least something of its scale, existed or after they are destroyed? Or failing that does the spatial aspect Demon World change over time for this timeline?

The OP does also meander around a lot. The number of these dimensions is largely irrelevant here if already accepted.
There are multiple examples in the novels and PoC but I think so far the best one is probably the Demon World's flow of time being stopped as a result of Sparda's sealing.

If the greater structure is temporally frozen while the inner realms continue functioning under their own space-time fabric then those temporal systems clearly aren't identical to one another. To me, that seems sufficient enough to establish a distinction between the overarching temporal framework and the subordinate timelines. What do you think?

Also we clearly can't forget that Human World still operates outside of Demon World aka it's birth place.
 
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