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Devil May Cry: Information Manipulation

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Argument​

Here's a little recap of what names in DMC represents: Names are a component of one's soul that can reshape reality on a whim if altered as we know which is also displayed with Temen-Ni-Guru requiring names to bridge through the gap between human world all the way to Demon World while tearing through the dimensional wall that has been placed between. These names precedes the universe they operate under and was there since the creation of Demon World altogether. Now frankly, these names assists one's soul and like some genetic codes, they mold themselves after the meaning of their names. That being said, a person's soul can exist even without it. In some cases, they don't even need it to function at all while in other cases they can barely move. Hence, it is not hard to understand that souls like a program that needs configuration file like names and are above these ideas in hierarchy as again, names are merely closest thing to their true substance (souls) more then their typical bodies or appearances. They are even considered textually metaphysical at occasions.

Now, that sounds more akin to concept but there's also informational properties attached to it as well on a deeper layer:



Surprisingly, we also got a supplementary evidence for it within Peak of Combat where the Kirk's family sacrificed their souls in order to trap countless demons in a virtual realm which can be manipulated by them afterwards. And no, there is no reason to assume it isn't abstract as no typical realm can be manipulated and seal off conceptually abstract entities such as Demons. This is not a game or a software either since it was done in ancient times so virtual here means in metaphysical sense. And as the realm is physical but virtualized as its fundamental blocks, as we literally have people interacting with the structure in real world, it must be made out of information. For instance, we have Savior making near perfect replica of our world or literal realms composed of dreams that replicate our world but their nature is clearly stated either recreations or mental/dream world. However, nowhere was virtualization ever mentioned for them. Therefore, we can conclude that the use of virtualization here is deliberate rather than interchangeable with the other realms shown throughout the series.

Video Evidence:


Definition:
2. Fundamental: These characters can manipulate information that serves as a fundamental building block of reality. This information is shown to compose reality similar to how data underlies a video game world, code defines the rules of a simulation or in a fashion equally fundamental to these examples. This may allow characters to rewrite the world to their whims, often by programming it much like they would a virtual reality. The ability can come on many levels of potency. The possible uses range from being the mechanism behind mundane magical abilities to rewriting information to change reality, causality or the laws of nature.

If you read the scan closely, you understand the demons are sealed through the sacrifice of souls which functions as a form of virtualization and entrapment comparable to information manipulation. The Kirk Family then further maintains and reinforces this seal by directly manipulating the realm as explicitly stated. Despite this, the "virtual" demons continue to rampage and degrade the realm until it begins to collapse, indicating adaptation and resistance to the imposed constraints. Hence, from here, we can witness multiple information-based interaction within a single system. Demon Hunters are then ultimately deployed to eliminate these demons and restore order to the realm.

In conclusion, information manipulation and resistance to it are depicted as baseline aspects of magic users, not exclusive abilities tied to any specific species or individual. This applies both to directly influencing the realm and to combat within it, including interacting with "virtual" beings while existing in a similarly constructed state. As such, the sacrifice of souls and the destruction of these demons further supports the idea that magic itself operates on an informational scale and thus, is capable of manipulating information.

Remember, magic is used to interact with and manipulate souls and names alike which further establishes relation with each other. For example, human female who once fell onto the underworld got her soul transformed into that of a Arachne named demon species via magic of the Demon World. There are many such feats along the way and is something that has been currently accepted by the wiki with the given hierarchy: Souls ~ Magic > Names


Conclusion​

In typical fashion, the verse will receive:
  • Information Type 2 for Names as they contain the information as another aspect aside from concept, that passes down from heir to heir in similar analogy to genes. Manipulating names would thus be Information Manipulation.
  • Information Manipulation for magic itself in its very nature as it is capable of being used without any exclusivity or specialty to any species or individual.
    • Capability to improve manipulation and Resistance through Reactive Evolution via degrading the seal overtime through rampaging destruction.
  • Abstract Existence type 1 (Concept and Information) for Demons via being composed of Names and again, souls by extension.
  • Aspect 4 on NEPs for Argosax, Hellfilth and Void Mundus via being non-existent from spiritual sense.


Counterarguments​

Q: Aren't both aspects for names extrapolated for the same thing?
A:
Not necessarily. The argument presented is not that both Concept and Information are derived from a single identical premise but that the verse attributes distinct characteristics to names that can support separate interpretations:
  • Conceptual side: Names are repeatedly associated with terms such as "truth", "true nature" and are stated to alter the "value of the world" itself. This language concerns meaning, essence and definitional significance which are commonly associated with concepts.
  • Informational side: Names are also described as moulds/templates analogous to genes, representing and shaping individuals. Such descriptions align with information functioning as structured templates or instructions that define states and characteristics.
The argument therefore is not "Names are concepts because they are fundamental" nor "Names are information because they resemble genes" but rather "names exhibit multiple characteristics that can independently support different classifications."

Q: But Truth and essence can also contribute to IM2?
A:
True but that depends heavily on the nature of the settings. In computational or simulation-based worlds, concepts such as truth, essence or true nature can be reducible to informational structures because reality itself is explicitly built on code or data. In such cases, those terms may simply describe underlying information.

However, that reduction is not automatic in metaphysical contexts. Terms such as truth, essence and true nature do not inherently default to informational definitions unless the setting explicitly establishes reality as fundamentally data-based. As historically treated, DMC has generally not been interpreted as a purely computational reality where all ontological properties reduce to information.


Votes​

Agree: @Reiner04 (mod), @Random-Helper323 (mod) @Planck69 (admin) (tentatively agree)
Neutral:
Disagree: @Vietthai96 (mod)
 
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"Can reshape reality on a whim" where's the scan simply says "the act of naming these demons, the world will change"

One is definitively less explicit than the other, what change? A literal one or just a metaphorical line referring to a change in power?
they mold themselves after the meaning of their names. That being said, a person's soul can exist even without it. In some cases, they don't even need it to function at all

A person’s soul can exist without a name, yet at the same time, names are genetic code to a soul??

You're contradicting yourself
 
One is definitively less explicit than the other, what change? A literal one or just a metaphorical line referring to a change in power?
This is just semantics. It means exactly what is says in scan, i.e warping reality. Context is very clear, the entire chapter is focused on characters giving exposition on metaphysics in verse.
A person’s soul can exist without a name, yet at the same time, names are genetic code to a soul??
That's because souls are formless, they use names to shape themselves. But they can exist in a formless state independant of names and be alive.
 
This is just semantics. It means exactly what is says in scan, i.e warping reality. Context is very clear, the entire chapter is focused on characters giving exposition on metaphysics in verse.

I don't see anything definitive like what you're claiming? It would've been a different matter if there were other statements emphasising this, but from what i see, you only havr 1 statement, who's content leaves more to be desired

That's because souls are formless, they use names to shape themselves. But they can exist in a formless state independant of names and be alive.

I see, names are not as fundamental as i thought they are, and the evidence matches that

"It’s like a mould of them, similar to genes, representing them as they are."

I thought that there was a direct statement for this "They serve as the underlying blueprint which shapes characteristics, function and identity. Likewise, names appear to operate as informational templates for souls themselves, molding their nature according to the meaning they embody"

But it seems, that only the former is the actual evidence, then some extrapolation for names
 
I'll say it here beforehand. There is no reason to argue against the hierarchy as it's already accepted which is not the main focus of the thread. Names do their own function and Souls do their own — leave it at that.

As for world alteration, it's very literal because Tony changing its name to Dante caused anomalies within the world out of random when he reverted his name back to his original self in order to gain power. This combined with the Temen-Ni-Guru scan mentioned in the OP above suggests that they have grip on the reality in a meaningful manner.
 
I think information makes sense here based on them being genes. However, I have another problem, that being "Names" being classified as concepts.

Based on their description in the Physiology page provided on the verse page, they are considered concepts for part of what is currently being proposed as "Information". I think this ultimately is extrapolation

They are described as fundamental aspects, yes, and that's where the Wiki has to decide what to classify them as, whether as Concept or information. Previously it has been classified as concepts, most likely because that's the option most of us default too, but if the verse specifically treats them as information or calls them with similar terms, they will be classified as that, not as concepts.

In short
Names should get Abstract Existence on information (type 2)
Names would lose their conceptual rating entirely

Keep in mind, every fundamental aspect beyond the physical body has potential to be classified under any wiki term, but only one (unless the verse specifically calls them both, which is rare in itself and not the default assumption). A fundamental aspect can be one's concept, history, information, narrative placement, etc., and whatever the verse in question calls it, we treat it as that, and not another.

Reading the justification as a whole, I also have some problems with names, whether information or concept, being proper fundamental aspects to begin with, but I don't want to derail the topic as them being such was already accepted, so I will refrain myself on that. If I get enough free time, I'll address it myself.
 
Names should get Abstract Existence on information (type 2)
Names would lose their conceptual rating entirely
I dont see how it works?? If you cant them being concept you shouldnt accept them as information

As both info 2 and concept governs whole world and defines reality. If verse estabilished ability can be both info and concept. But i know and see where all doubts came from(including my own doubts).

I dont want to argue on accepted basis of metaphysical aspects here.
Names act as like genes to a soul. Genes or genetic codes for that matter are basically underlying information and the fundamental instructions that determine how an organism develops and expresses itself. They serve as the underlying blueprint which shapes characteristics, function and identity. Likewise, names appear to operate as informational templates for souls themselves, molding their nature according to the meaning they embody.
Main evidence is dogshit Sonic, this is pure semantics. With how information and concept defined you could get info in your original thread. I dont agree with this evidence

Moreover, most of things you said can be done by Conceptual Manipulation.

But most important part is this: Virtual World. But evidence is so little to argue for information here.

Issues I have looking through OP

1. It is stated to be Virtual World, but where is evidence of this world being as real as normal worlds? Obviously you can have virtual world where it everything is info 2 but it needs to be as real as normal world. Otherwise what stops me telling you manipulation of codes are Data Manipulation?
2. There is little evidence of how they manipulate or alter that world also, scan tells me they manipulate future, something can be done without metaphysical manipulation. Sure you can have informational world but what is point of having it if you cant alter?


Unless i am missing something(let me know it) i find argument very iffy right now.

Also another my concern is how virtual world can correlate to their Abstact Existence, sure you can say "My argument was mostly genes" which I can understand why you proposed AE for Information, but unless there is evidence of how that names govern and shape virtual world also i feel like there is no AE for Information

So what I am seeing

1. Mostly argument should be Virtual World
2. It has no relation to names
3. Genes argument is mostly semantics rather than proving names are information
 
I think information makes sense here based on them being genes. However, I have another problem, that being "Names" being classified as concepts.

Based on their description in the Physiology page provided on the verse page, they are considered concepts for part of what is currently being proposed as "Information". I think this ultimately is extrapolation

They are described as fundamental aspects, yes, and that's where the Wiki has to decide what to classify them as, whether as Concept or information. Previously it has been classified as concepts, most likely because that's the option most of us default too, but if the verse specifically treats them as information or calls them with similar terms, they will be classified as that, not as concepts.

In short
Names should get Abstract Existence on information (type 2)
Names would lose their conceptual rating entirely

Keep in mind, every fundamental aspect beyond the physical body has potential to be classified under any wiki term, but only one (unless the verse specifically calls them both, which is rare in itself and not the default assumption). A fundamental aspect can be one's concept, history, information, narrative placement, etc., and whatever the verse in question calls it, we treat it as that, and not another.


Reading the justification as a whole, I also have some problems with names, whether information or concept, being proper fundamental aspects to begin with, but I don't want to derail the topic as them being such was already accepted, so I will refrain myself on that. If I get enough free time, I'll address it myself.
you said my mind!

Anyways, I did some digging and found that Names were generally accepted as "Concepts" back in 2021. They just changed the type overtime. I'm fairly certain our concept standards and page back then was far more lax in what concepts are in general, and our information standards and page back then (the revision after this was in 2022) was not that developed...

I also think the concept rating needs to go unless the verse classifies them as both concept and information, with those terms or similar actually being used.
 
I dont see how it works?? If you cant them being concept you shouldnt accept them as information

As both info 2 and concept governs whole world and defines reality. If verse estabilished ability can be both info and concept. But i know and see where all doubts came from(including my own doubts).

I dont want to argue on accepted basis of metaphysical aspects here.
As I said before:
Reading the justification as a whole, I also have some problems with names, whether information or concept, being proper fundamental aspects to begin with, but I don't want to derail the topic as them being such was already accepted, so I will refrain myself on that. If I get enough free time, I'll address it myself.

I didn't think too much about it, and just didn't have the time to research further on it either.

But given what @Astral_Trinity439 has pointed out above about when they were accepted, I think they generally need to go. But I can also understand the problems with arguing that in this thread. It would be better to make another thread if you want to remove the rating entirely, no?
 
Issues I have looking through OP

1. It is stated to be Virtual World, but where is evidence of this world being as real as normal worlds? Obviously you can have virtual world where it everything is info 2 but it needs to be as real as normal world. Otherwise what stops me telling you manipulation of codes are Data Manipulation?
2. There is little evidence of how they manipulate or alter that world also, scan tells me they manipulate future, something can be done without metaphysical manipulation. Sure you can have informational world but what is point of having it if you cant alter?
No need to bold some much bro, hurts the eyes.
Anyways

What does real even mean? And its quite obvious its not some computer software. You might want to check the info page again. Creating a virtual realm and sealing demons inside it is already two feats of manipulation on its own. Because the demons are being virtualised. it literally says in the text verbatim that they manipulate it to keep them locked, thats another manip feat. But since the demons are too adaptive they are degrading the realm to escape, another feat. The hunters come in and kill said demons to restore the realm. Another feat. Since everything is happening in a non-physical virtual world.


2. Fundamental: These characters can manipulate information that serves as a fundamental building block of reality. This information is shown to compose reality similar to how data underlies a video game world, code defines the rules of a simulation or in a fashion equally fundamental to these examples. This may allow characters to rewrite the world to their whims, often by programming it much like they would a virtual reality. The ability can come on many levels of potency. The possible uses range from being the mechanism behind mundane magical abilities to rewriting information to change reality, causality or the laws of nature.
 
you said my mind!

Anyways, I did some digging and found that Names were generally accepted as "Concepts" back in 2021. They just changed the type overtime. I'm fairly certain our concept standards and page back then was far more lax in what concepts are in general, and our information standards and page back then (the revision after this was in 2022) was not that developed...

I also think the concept rating needs to go unless the verse classifies them as both concept and information, with those terms or similar actually being used.
They were 'debunked' later, Names as Type 1 Concepts were added back in 2025 here so let's not spread misinfromation here.
 
Names have been concept on this wiki since 2019 iirc, its just that type and their relation to souls which has been debated over the years. Even then they have never been contested or downgraded officially. Just some people opposing it amounting to nothing.
 
They were 'debunked' later, Names as Type 1 Concepts were added back in 2025 here so let's not spread misinfromation here.
I don't care about when they were type 1 or type 2 or type 3. My point is that they were accepted a concepts in general back in 2021.
I even went ahead to check once again, mayyybe I got something wrong, but no, they were still Concepts back in 2024. When were they "debunked"?

I ain't going through every single edit on edit history to check that, you cannot require me to do that, I just checked a few edits from each year and came to the conclusion I did, so how about the supporters clarifying this themselves?
 
Yeah talking about concepts is derailing the thread into red herrings.
it is not??
If you're gonna add the "information" label to what was treated as a concept before because no alternative was presented or Concept was just taken as a default rating, you need a damn good reason as to why we should label names as both Information and Concept at the same time.

Just because something was "accepted here" doesn't mean it absolutely cannot be brought up again. That's not how the wiki works. Sure you could say something if it was accepted like a month ago, but no, this is something from 2021 we're talking about (Edit: I'm talking about it being classified as a concept itself, not what type was accepted or debated)

If you're gonna use their currently accepted reasoning as concepts as this aspect being fundamental, then add a few more scans of them of that aspect being treated as "genes", which in context to a fundamental aspect would be information, then raising doubts against the base of the argument itself, the concept rating, is not "derailment" lol

Derailment would be if I come to your crt and start talking about a random topic unrelated to the OP, but this is not unrelated at all.
 
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I can answer the concerns fairly easily but this would clutter the thread unnecessarily so let's drop this topic and focus on the information part. A humble request from me please.
Sure, but another thing of virtual realm, how does it relate to names?

Yeah you can say "It is virtual world, yes they can manipulate that" sure it can be information. But i am seeing zero correlation to how it relates to names? I don't get AE on Information
 
Sure, but another thing of virtual realm, how does it relate to names?

Yeah you can say "It is virtual world, yes they can manipulate that" sure it can be information. But i am seeing zero correlation to how it relates to names? I don't get AE on Information
Nothing, both are seperate.

That thing shows information manipulation exists in the verse and isn't some afterthought with zero uses.
 
Just because something was "accepted here" doesn't mean it absolutely cannot be brought up again. That's not how the wiki works. Sure you could say something if it was accepted like a month ago, but no, this is something from 2021 we're talking about (Edit: I'm talking about it being classified as a concept itself, not what type was accepted or debated)
Derailment would be if I come to your crt and start talking about a random topic unrelated to the OP, but this is not unrelated at all.
????
You are discussing about when Name was accepted as Concept and whether Name is Concept itself. This isn't pat of OP and is derailing as you have aptly said it yourself.
 
I am wondering if the ongoing discussion regarding the "validity" of it being information and even concepts would change your opinions?

Also, regarding my personal opinion, I am having a hard time seeing where the "fundamental information" about names is coming from?

Here is an good explanation that pretty much cover my thoughts
I dont see how it works?? If you cant them being concept you shouldnt accept them as information

As both info 2 and concept governs whole world and defines reality. If verse estabilished ability can be both info and concept. But i know and see where all doubts came from(including my own doubts).

I dont want to argue on accepted basis of metaphysical aspects here.

Main evidence is dogshit Sonic, this is pure semantics. With how information and concept defined you could get info in your original thread. I dont agree with this evidence

Moreover, most of things you said can be done by Conceptual Manipulation.

But most important part is this: Virtual World. But evidence is so little to argue for information here.

Issues I have looking through OP

1. It is stated to be Virtual World, but where is evidence of this world being as real as normal worlds? Obviously you can have virtual world where it everything is info 2 but it needs to be as real as normal world. Otherwise what stops me telling you manipulation of codes are Data Manipulation?
2. There is little evidence of how they manipulate or alter that world also, scan tells me they manipulate future, something can be done without metaphysical manipulation. Sure you can have informational world but what is point of having it if you cant alter?


Unless i am missing something(let me know it) i find argument very iffy right now.

Also another my concern is how virtual world can correlate to their Abstact Existence, sure you can say "My argument was mostly genes" which I can understand why you proposed AE for Information, but unless there is evidence of how that names govern and shape virtual world also i feel like there is no AE for Information

So what I am seeing

1. Mostly argument should be Virtual World
2. It has no relation to names
3. Genes argument is mostly semantics rather than proving names are information

So yeah, disagree with this thread.
 
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