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Dies Irae Revisions

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Okay. I suppose that seems to be the way to go then.
 
Okay. Tell me here when you are done.
 
Machina and others wouldn't scale to Willhelm right?

Willhelm at that point was amped by Reinhard, the same Reinhard who effortlesly stomps all three batallion commanders on daily basis

This gave him power beyond anything he can normally have.His powers were on a whole different level


At that point, he was a true einjerihiar

Becaming an einjerihiar is peak of all of Obsidian Round Table members, so Willhelm was far superrior to any LDO member that is not Reinhard at that point

We can't scale from him at all right?
 
i'm done.

also bacause of having agreement about Velrian's LLT being as powerful as Reinhard's i added these abilities from Reinhard's LLT for him too.

Conceptual Manipulation (The Longinuslanze's light was ridding the world of Methuselah and turned the concept of darkness as a personifed concept to that of simple darkness), Light Manipulation, Darkness Manipulation, Holy Manipulation (Via the Longinuslanze), Existence Erasure (Can erase anything as long as it has a history with the Longinuslanze, which can even erase the Law of Mercurius)
 
Willhelm wasn't amped by entire of souls at same time. Gladsheim's souls acted similar to his supply/backup for preventing from runing out power or incapabality in regenerating. his limit was 8k souls and he was only capable of having and burning 8k souls at same time. Three Battalion Commanders have more than 60k souls at same time. so they are far stronger than him and scalable to him.
 
I still agree with Trex and EMC far more and the downgrade should be done but sadly this is VBW and downgrades just don't happen in this house.
 
Is there anything left to do here? Perhaps others can look over that the edits are all appropriate?
 
EmperorRorepme said:
"Can erase anything as long as it has a history with the Longinuslanze, which can even erase the Law of Mercurius"On Trifa's page. I disagree with this. It can't erase Mercurius' Law otherwise Reinhard's Atziluth wouldn't be needed to even contend with Mercurius. Even Reinhard's Briah is still within Foreknowledge.
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that't stated in Reinhard's profile. so we need to adding that for Valeria too.

you can make a downgrade thread for that.
 
"Can erase anything as long as it has a history with the Longinuslanze, which can even erase the Law of Mercurius"

This is wrong and if its like that on Reinhards profile its wrong there as well, Reinhard can erase something with History using Machinas Briah, LLT doesnt have the requirement of History as far as I know.
 
PsychoWarper said:
"Can erase anything as long as it has a history with the Longinuslanze, which can even erase the Law of Mercurius"
This is wrong and if its like that on Reinhards profile its wrong there as well, Reinhard can erase something with History using Machinas Briah, LLT doesnt have the requirement of History as far as I know.
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it constantly stated LLT has Machina's all ending power so that isn't wrong.
 
Well, for one, I feel like this discussion should be for a separate thread, but to talk about the reasonings.

Reinhard's Yetriah is the Spear of Destiny, the weapon born from Mercurius's desire to die - it's light purges the law of the old World, the World of Foreknowledge, to give birth to the new world.

Reinhard's Gladsheimr is the Law of the New World, that is completely detached from the World of Foreknowledge. A Law that destroys the World's concepts of distance and coordinates. Unbound from the bindings of the ghetto (Mercurius's Law).

In other words, Gladsheimr is similar to Marie, a Gudou God, unbound from the world's laws, but still remains inside the world. I think there is even a point where Glads and Marie are directely comparable to one another. I just don't have the scans at the moment.

In simpliest terms, think of creation as the canvas, a Hadou God's law as the colored-paint (in this case Mercury silver) that completely covers the canvas, and Gladsheimr as a dot of different colored paint (Gold). It is unbound from the world, but still resides inside of it. That's why Gladsheimr can travel anywhere.


And Reinhard needs to obtain Atziluth because his goal is to ascend into godhood, in which he will not just destroy the World of Foreknowledge, but he will rewrite it with his own law - in efforts to give him the sense of the unknown and a challenge which he has always dreamed of. It's the basis of his entire character.


And speaking of scans, why are there a bunch of IWKBey scans on Reinhard's page that are in Japanese? I thought we replaced them with the English ones, did someone change them, or did we not get around to it?
 
Infera28 said:
it constantly stated LLT has Machina's all ending power so that isn't wrong.
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The LLT has All-ending power like Machina does, not that it is Machina's power.

The erasure from the LLT and Machina's are not on the same level.
 
You should specify that those powers are the LLT's powers and not his own somehow.

Ex:

"Powers and Abilities: Superhuman Physical Characteristics, Immortality (Types 1 and 3), Regenerationn (Low-Godly, Mid-Godly within Gladsheimr), Self-Sustenance (Types 1, 2 and 3), Law Manipulation (Briahs are described as the implantation of a new law into reality), Reality Warping (Briah allows Ewigkeit users to impose their own desire on reality), Enhanced Senses, Extrasensory Perception, Soul Manipulation, Energy Absorption, can travel through ley lines, Stealth Mastery (Can hide his presence and soul even from the 3 Commanders), Regenerationn Negation (Up to Low Godly; Holy Relics carry a poison that hinder or negate Regenerationn of the soul), Non-Physical Interaction (Holy Relics are capable of hitting disembodied souls), Summoning (His Briah allows him to summon Reinhard's Longinuslanze Testament), Durability Negation, Immunity to natural poisons and diseases, Resistance to Mind Manipulation, Soul Manipulation, Time Manipulation, Magic and Conceptual Existence Erasure attacks (Has Reinhard resistances due to his Holy Relic being his body, effectively gaining a massive boost in his soul count alongside gaining his defenses), with the LLT, Trifa gains: Conceptual Manipulation (The Longinuslanze's light was ridding the world of Methuselah and turned the concept of darkness as a personifed concept to that of simple darkness, and it can also bypass the concept of distance), Light Manipulation, Darkness Manipulation, Holy Manipulation (Via the Longinuslanze), Existence Erasure (Can erase anything as long as it has a history with the Longinuslanze, which can even erase the Law of Mercurius)"


Something like this, maybe?
 
It cannot just up and erase Mercurius' Law. Even when Reinhard at Hadou God stage clashed with Mercurius (With all his power not just LLT) and most of his "body" was blown away his Law was still intact and he still planned on resetting everything so he could plan Marie to kill him again and he's done it countless times and failed. Therefore LLT alone cannot kill Mercurius or erase his Law and that shouldn't really be justification.

And yeah I agree the castle is unbound by everything except Foreknowledge.
 
Nerd1435 said:
Snip
Click to expand...
Nope. Reinhard turned him an Einherjar which is no different from Wolfgang being an Einherjar. Hell it is noted Wolfgang > Einherjar Wilhelm simply because Wolfgang soul stock is far above Wilhelm's

The benefit of having Einherjar status is the ability to use entirety of soul stck in one single attack and not care about depletion since Gladsheimr will supply them with infinite amount of souls (hence infinite life-energy stated In IwKB).

So whatever Wilhelm did as an Einherjar, the others Einherjar should scale to by virtue of having higher soul count than him. That is to say, any feat that isn't "Wilhelm could only do it because of x reason"
 
EmperorRorepme said:
It cannot just up and erase Mercurius' Law. Even when Reinhard at Hadou God stage clashed with Mercurius (With all his power not just LLT) and most of his "body" was blown away his Law was still intact and he still planned on resetting everything so he could plan Marie to kill him again and he's done it countless times and failed. Therefore LLT alone cannot kill Mercurius or erase his Law and that shouldn't really be justification.
And yeah I agree the castle is unbound by everything except Foreknowledge.
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you can make a downgrade thread for that. because that isn't related to this thread.
 
well imo LLT purges Mercuriu's law not erase. but we can't suddenly change that into the purge without making a downgrade thread.
 
EmperorRorepme said:
It cannot just up and erase Mercurius' Law. Even when Reinhard at Hadou God stage clashed with Mercurius (With all his power not just LLT) and most of his "body" was blown away his Law was still intact and he still planned on resetting everything so he could plan Marie to kill him again and he's done it countless times and failed. Therefore LLT alone cannot kill Mercurius or erase his Law and that shouldn't really be justification.
And yeah I agree the castle is unbound by everything except Foreknowledge.
Click to expand...
Yeah, "most" being the operative word. Hadou Gods are their laws, the reason why Mercurius's law remains is that Mercurius is alive at that time, slowly dying from his fight with Reinhard. The reason why Reinhard died first is the curse of Apoptosis, Reinhard killing Mercurius kills himself.

The spear possess the power to destroy Mercurius, the scan I showed and the lore I mentioned is proof of that, but Reinhard will never be able to kill Mercurius without killing himself because of their connection.


And the reasoning for Mercurius' always being able to reset the timeline is because his law is bullshit. IIRC, Mercurius on the Throne has the possibility of being able to reset everything even after Hajun killed him. That doesn't make Hajun weaker than him.
 
Reinhard didn't use LLT to destroy most of his Law. He basically used all his power not just the LLT. Reinhard threw LLT at Ren and Ren slapped it away and at the time those three were relative so it's clear LLT doesn't contain all his power. So LLT alone cannot kill Mercurius.

No idea about that. Haven't read K3. The point was Reinhard failed in destroying his Law with his full power so Mercurius could use it to reset.
 
Barring Reinhard's legion, the LLT is Reinhard's only weapon, it's what he attacks with.

Reinhard doesn't have any other tools that he uses to fight. He's not Mercurius who uses the power of thousands of condensed "stars" to form a supernovae as a means of attacking.


Anyway, I am much too busy at the moment to continue this debate. This thread's purpose is finished, and it should be closed as it is best to take things one step at a time instead of all at once.

This discussion can be argued another day on it's own thread.
 
Warren Valion said:
The reason why Reinhard died first is the curse of Apoptosis, Reinhard killing Mercurius kills himself.
Click to expand...
IIRC the narration or Merc said that Rein rests or what was left of him was drifting in the cosmos, unable to attack, that was why Merc was begging him to land the final blow as he could die thanks to the apoptosis and end his law but since Rein was ****** too he couldn't.

Or at least that how I interpret it.
 
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