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Downgrading Mega Man?

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Neosonic97

Neosonic97

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I've gathered some evidence that Mega Man may not be as fast as people claim him to be. Here are my points.

First, the Duo Meteor Strike argument. Yes, Mega Man did dodge Duo's Meteor Strike. However, this was not a Meteor Strike at full power or maximum speed. As we see clearly in the opening, the Evil Energy crashing into the earth creates a massive crater. However, when Duo uses his Meteor Strike in the fight against Mega Man AND the Cutscene afterwards, the move is shown to hardly do any damage at all (merely blowing down a wall), despite reportedly moving at the same speeds the Evil Energy was moving at. Thus, it can easily be inferred that this Meteor Strike was nowhere near full strength, else it would not have merely blown down a wall in that cutscene (And yes, the version used in the cutscene moves at the same speed as the version used in the actual fight.). It would've caused much more damage.

Secondly, The Quick Man 'Light Beams' Argument. I've seen this a lot, but from what I can gather, Mega Man is not actually faster than those beams of light. In fact, he actually moves slower than them in Mega Man 2, though not by much. He only evades them by dropping down before they reach him. While this does make Mega Man rather fast, it's definitely not the MFTL that people are pinning him as, or even FTL at all. It places him at Relativistic speeds.

Third, the Space Rush argument. This one is one I honestly can't find any solid evidence against, but it only proves Mega Man's reaction speed, not his movement speed. Even then, we don't know if the Asteroid Belt is the same as the one in our own universe, so it's sketchy at best.

Fourth, the Black Hole and Black Hole Bomb Argument- Simple. They're not real black holes. They don't have nearly the same gravitational strength as a real black hole, and hell, The BHB can be sealed in concrete. If they were Black Holes, then Mega Man himself would be sucked into them, and sealing the BHB in concrete wouldn't work. They also don't function anything like Black Holes (Which indiscriminately consume matter until all else is consumed then collapse), but the ones Mega Man faces have a definite life span. And besides, by THAT excuse, Sonic is also MFTL for doing the same thing, albeit temporarily due to the rate at which it was expanding.

So my thoughts are to downgrade Mega Man's speed to Relativistic, with possible MFTL reactions, based on this evidence going against Mega Man being FTL.

At least, in the games, anyway. Archie Mega Man is MFTL simply by virtue of not getting owned by Archie Sonic. And we ALL know how powerful that guy is.
 
It didn't do any damage since Mega Man boss rooms are fixed and do not change. Game mechanics I tell you.

He's still able to move fast enough to run across a platform and jump off before they hit him as well as use the Time Stopper even as they approach him without difficulty.

He was on Rush and could react and get Rush to move before those lasers hit him. Plus Wily was on the other side of the Asteroid belt. He had no way of aimdodging. The Mega Man universe takes place on Earth (specifically Japan in the original Japanese release and the Robot Masters form Mega Man 6 all came from different countries around the world which places the series in our Solar System).

It's still a singularity, so it has the same escape velocity as one. In addition, the reason why it doesn't act like a real-life black hole is the fact that Robot Masters like Galaxy Man are Space-Time Manipulators (as demonstrated by Gravity Antonion). Of course he has to be able to control the Black Hole lest the entire museum gets destroyed when he tries to defend it.
 
In the cutscene afterwards, though, it only blows down a wall. There's no real explanation for that, except the Meteor Strike wasn't full power.

Yes, but he still moves slightly slower than the lasers. Definitely not MFTL.

The Space Rush thing is reaction time, yes, but not movement speed. Hence why I say possible MFTL reactions: Because Mega Man is not moving himself, he's piloting Space Rush.

But what's the escape velocity of said singularity? It depends on the gravitational pull. In addition, wouldn't that mean that other characters who have performed similar feats (Sonic The Hedgehog comes to mind here) have similar leeway?
 
He wasn't exactly going to use a Planet-Level attack to bust a wall? Besides, even if Duo is ignored Mega Man still fought Sunstar who was designed to conquer planets and fly between solar systems.

That's not the feat that makes him MFTL but okay.

It's still MFTL movement speed for short bursts. Besides, the most important aspect of speed is reaction speed = combat speed.

The escape velocity of a Black Hole is exactly the Speed of Light, but he still has better feats.

You can also take this up with TheEverlasting if you want. He's the one who posted the upgrades.
 
The problem is that it's the EXACT SAME Meteor Strike that reportedly places Mega Man at MFTL speeds for dodging it. The issue here being that if Duo really WAS moving that fast, then he'd have done a much larger amount of damage to the surrounding area when he left using the exact same attack at the exact same speed as he did during the fight with Mega Man. That's why I say it can't possibly be the same speed that Duo arrived at Earth at, and instead was a watered down version that's much slower.

@The Everlasting The logic here is that Duo's Meteor Strike that he used against Mega Man was not a full power one (and thus not at maximum speed since the Meteor Strike is literally ramming into a foe at extremely high speeds) so we can't scale Mega Man to the calculation of Duo and the Evil Energy flying to Earth. We already saw the effect the Evil Energy's version had, and Duo was reportedly moving at the same speeds, so why would it not have the same effects? It's highly likely that Duo was holding back.

Also, @Reppuzan You're partially right, but wrong at the same time. Combat Speed is a mix of movement speed and reaction speed. It's not JUST reaction speed. An example of this was in the Sasuke vs Lee fight in the Naruto Part 1. Sasuke could see Lee's attacks coming, he had fast enough reactions, but he simply couldn't move fast enough to stop Lee's attacks. As it was once quoted, there are two requisites to be able to fight at a certain speed. They are to be able to move at said speeds and percieve something moving at said speeds.
 
We've seen attacks comparable or superior to planet busters in DBZ that have only made moderate craters at most (Including the exact same attacks [Frieza's Supernova]). The same logic applies here.
 
...You're completely missing the point here.

The Evil Energy crashing into the Earth at the reported speeds shown created a rather large crater. Yet when Duo crashes through these, supposedly at these exact same speeds, it does much less damage, only destroying a wall without even causing a cave-in, despite physics saying otherwise (Given that Duo would've been hitting the wall with an EXTREME amount of force). This is THE SAME attack that Duo uses in his fight against Mega Man, AT the same speeds, reportedly.

DBZ is full of plot-holes, as popular as it is. And with that being said, we've already seen that a full-power Supernova can destroy a Planet. However, Energy attacks are fundamentally different, and DBZ Characters can control the amount of energy they're putting out, not to mention that DBZ Characters are rarely thrown back due to recoil from their own attacks, so it's likely that any force being exerted when they're firing is being stopped by the characters themselves. (See Death Battle's Explanation in Goku vs Superman 1). Here, Duo is literally ramming into things at incredibly high speed. There's no such control about it. Considering the laws of physics, He CAN'T have been moving as fast as he reportedly was, else lots of damage would've been done in that cutscene, due to the laws of physics, definitely much more than a mere wall.
 
And Frieza used Supernova (Which busted a planet 10x larger than Earth) against Future Trunks, but only made a crater. Heck, Frieza was vastly stronger at the time (Being both in final form and getting the boost from his Mecha state), so it should have caused more damage than it did the last time he used it.

So you're simply saying that the logic doesn't apply to DBZ because DBZ is inconsistent? By the laws of physics nothing can travel faster than light, so the destruction caused is purely hypothetical. Fiction also very often tends to ignore this, like how virtually no supersonic characters make sonic booms and can somehow still talk to each other.
 
I just rewatched that Scene and you're missing one VERY IMPORTANT point: Future Trunks STOPPED the Supernova, mind you, hence why it did less damage. It only got partway through before Trunks literally lifted the Supernova and stopped it from reaching the core of the planet (How Frieza usually destroys planets... usually.). Nothing was there to stop the Meteor Strike (I mean, Mega Man most certainly didn't). What people are comparing Mega Man to is inconsistent with what Duo actually did against him. Mega Man didn't stop Duo's Meteor Strike while he was fleeing- in fact, NOTHING did.
 
You know, I can list a wide variety of other examples of this happening, and it's not restricted to DBZ. Heck, it's availible to most of fiction in general.

Also, Supernova didn't go to the planet's core, logically, merely touching the planet would cause it to blow up, since Frieza at this point possesses near-small star busting or total star busting capabilities.
 
But again, the problem is that Future Trunks stopped it. Considering how Energy attacks typically work in DBZ (They can be cancelled out if the target is strong enough- like when Goku deflected Cooler's Supernova, or when he stopped Beerus' Sphere of Destruction, and so on). Plus there's the issue of Area of Effect. Frieza often has to strike the core because... well, Supernova's not a very large attack. Bomberman's bombs are reportedly Universal and yet we don't see him blowing up the entire universe, even though he has no control over them once he's set them up. And the issue here is that we're using the Meteor Strike that's CLEARLY not moving at full speed- and treating it as if it is. That's my issue with the Duo Argument- Duo was VERY LIKELY holding back. It would DEFINITELY be in-character for Duo to hold back- he was simply hunting the Evil Energy- not trying to deal heavy damage to the Planet. In this case, the force he would be hitting the wall at by going at such speeds would AT THE VERY LEAST de-stabilize the entire cave they were in instead of merely blowing down a wall. And THEN there's the issue that it's likely aim dodging during the fight proper since DUO TELEGRAPHS THE DAMN ATTACK (He flies up charging with blue energy while saying "Get ready!"), and doesn't even start the attack by flying towards Mega Man- he flies towards the roof instead. Meaning, once it was used against Mega Man once it wouldn't be hard to predict where he's going to hit when he uses Meteor Strike.
 
He's seriously uploading those? Just how angry is he at me for trying to debunk his calcs? Wow. And he called me angry.

I don't see Mega Man being MFTL though, at least in movement speed.
 
Neosonic97 said:
He's seriously uploading those? Just how angry is he at me for trying to debunk his calcs? Wow. And he called me angry.
Click to expand...
(Don't kill the messenger)

"I'm only angry with you because you went behind my back three god damn times now and refused to acknowledge me, and were lying in wait to downplay Mega Man until immediately after I left. Vivi Ornitier: There's not upsetness about the fact Neo is trying to debunk my calcs, some of my best friends have done the same. The problem arises from the sheer chickenshit cowardness. Seriously, the kiddo must be having crippling nightmares day in and day out of Mega Man beating Sanquick. Also I'm not talking behind your back, I asked Baedash to help me expose you for the wimp you are. Have fun, you can have the last word if you want, I'm done with you. If Wikia decides to downgrade the MM profiles all good, I'll be chilling on the OBD" - Proto
 
I only have one message for him and it's fairly simple. Deliver it to him.

"Real Mature, Proto, real mature. That was sarcasm, in case you haven't noticed. Instead of just hurling insults like you did on Deviantart you COULD try showing everything. Maybe THAT would make me understand. You omitted details in every post you made, which didn't give me a complete picture. Try THAT next time. And you still haven't resolved the issue of the Meteor Strike inconsistency. That, and it's an aim dodge; Duo telegraphs the attack. It's funny how everyone ignores that little issue. And don't bother replying, I'd much rather not have to deal with your foul mouth and awful attitude. It's also funny because I never insulted you behind your back. So that's something ELSE you lied about. I only continued trying to debunk your calcs. VERY specifically Megaman being MFTL. I know for a fact that Mega being MFTL is wrong."

Anyways, Proto's failed attempt at Cyberbullying aside, Mega Man does need a speed downgrade from MFTL movement to Relativistic or FTL since dodging Duo's Meteor Strike is an Aim Dodge- he telegraphs the attack.
 
Long story short he got mad at me for calling his friend out on unacceptable behaviour on Deviantart (Hurling insults and generally being condescending and rude to a guy who did a fight, the results of which he didn't agree with, baring in mind that I have also had problems with this same person) and started hurling insults at me, despite the fact that evidence was right there. He also called me a hypocrite for doing so even though I never insulted anyone, and used some of my examples of less-than-stellar debating to try and prove me as some kind of 'idiot' when I tried to argue against the whole 'MFTL Mega Man' thing. Which I still don't see. That's besides the point, though, I'm done with THAT argument. I can see Mega Man being FTL or Relativistic but not MFTL- the only evidence supporting the latter seems to be the Duo fight but that was Aim Dodging. Duo's Meteor Strike was Telegraphed and followed a set pattern.
 
You've already acknowledged that his reaction speed is MFTL, Sonic. That's why his rating is there. It's his reaction speed and thus his combat speed. His travel speed is already far above that with Teleporters.
 
NeoSonic is trying to downgrade Mega Man's travel speed to Realivistic despite the existence of teleporters.
 
@Reppuzan Actually, the Teleporters Argument is stupid too. That's like saying Game Sonic is MFTL thanks to Chaos Control, or ANY teleporter instantly being MFTL, but we don't see THAT being done. It's utterly stupid. In fact, saying Sonic is MFTL thanks to Chaos Control makes MORE sense than saying Megaman is MFTL due to teleporters for one simple reason- The Teleporters aren't Mega Man's own doing. It's Dr. Light allowing Mega Man to teleport around. Think about it for a second. What's the one constant in where Mega Man is teleported to and from? That's right: Light Labs. Every time Mega Man starts or finishes a mission, he is warped to or from Light Labs, implying that the teleportation is something Dr. Light is causing, rather than Mega Man himself. Suddenly Mega Man gets a free pass for MFTL movement because someone is teleporting him around? That sounds REALLY stupid. This ALSO applies to Mega Man X and Zero, too, considering they have the same trend- they're always teleported to and from the Maverick Hunter HQ or The Resistance Base, depending on the time period. And before people say that Mega Man teleports from one point to another in the Wily Castle stages, I refute with this- WHERE would Mega Man find the resources in Wily's castle to fully restore his health AND his weapon energy, not to mention any items he has? It's far more likely that instead he teleports to Light Labs, gets fixed up, then returns via Dr. Light's help. The Archie Mega Man comics actually support this theory- in it, we're shown that Dr. Light is responsible for teleporting Mega Man to and from Light Labs.

Let's put it this way. By your logic, ANYBODY teleported by an outside source is MFTL. That sounds dumb, doesn't it?

I had to think about this for a while to make sure my theory is solid. I had to go over every single possibility and rule them out. This is why it took me over a week to respond.
 
Now you're arguing game mechanics in an attempt to use absurdism to disprove this.

There's a certain suspension of disbelief required in fiction. Those items are there for player use of course. Is Mega likely to find them in reality, no, but using absurdism to that extent is just plain dumb when this is a site about fiction.

I also don't see what's the problem with teleporting. Sans does it and no one complains. Mega traveled a distance via a teleporter. It's part of his standard arsenal. No, he doesn't use it in combat, that's why it's called travel speed. He uses it get from Point A to Point B efficiently (so he can save Rush's fuel for stages) and it's be calced to go that fast, so your point is moot. Plus Proto Man has his own teleporter on hand, further disproving your claim.
 
Sans has a clean speed feat in dodging Frisk's attacks (And Frisk can move relativistic at least- based on dodging Night Knight's attack) hence why he's relativistic. It's not due to teleportation. Teleportation DOES NOT, i repeat, DOES NOT equal movement speed. Sans is relativistic without teleportation. Again, by your logic ANY AND ALL TELEPORTERS are MFTL in movement speed. That's not how it works. Goku can use instant transmission which is MFTL but his movement speed in combat, without instant transmission, didn't reach as such until he became Super Saiyan 4/Super Saiyan God, depending on the timeline.

That's my issue here- people are taking Mega Man's movement speed IN COMBAT to be much higher than it actually is, based on the teleportation. I'm saying he moves relativistic with MFTL reactions WITHOUT the usage of teleporters. If we're not downgrading his speed, AT LEAST clarify that he can't move MFTL without the teleporters.
 
Put it this way. Did device move character from Point A to Point B in a speed over a thousand times faster than light? Yes? Then it's MFTL+ travel speed. Gee, that's difficult logic. I don't understand what your problem is.

His combat speed is just fine. We've already proven that he can dodge at the speed via Space Rush. I think you're the only one who doesn't accept the fact that Mega Man accomplished the feat despite overwhelming evidence. He's not rated MFTL+ in combat, only MFTL (big difference), his teleport speed is seperate from his combat speed.

Besides it's already listed "MFTL+ travel speed with teleporters". You're crying for something to happen when it's already done. At least read his profile before you start spewing your accusations.
 
I still don't agree with Mega Man being MFTL w/o the Teleporters, due to the fact that the Meteor Strike wasn't full power (and thus full speed, plus it was a heavily telegraphed attack and thus aim dodged) and the Black Holes were tiny and thus much weaker than an actual black hole, plus Mega Man was only barely faster than Quick Man's beams of light, but I digress. I'll back off until I have more information, since I'm going to look more into it.
 
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