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Downstreamers VS Khorne

The 1-Aness of the Downstreamers, should they really be 1-A, is more impressive IIRC + they have more large scale versatility and hax like transdual existence and higher mathematical manipulation
 
FanofRPGs said:
The 1-Aness of the Downstreamers, should they really be 1-A, is more impressive IIRC + they have more large scale versatility and hax like transdual existence and higher mathematical manipulation
Click to expand...
yup i agree with this downstreamers hax are way more versatile and they are more like to start with something that will get them the first kill.
 
No offense to the blood god, but he stands no chance, he is going to suffer a humiliating defeat by will by the Downstreamers, in fact the Downstreamers could erase the entire 40k universe along with the warp since the warp is basically just a higher dimensional space powered by lower mortal consciousness and the Downstreamers kind of transcended dimensions so basically 1 Downstreamer= an outerversal deity, not to mention the entire civilization. Khorne cannot even defeat Slaanesh properly and Tzeentch could destroy him if he really wanted to.
 
Oceania1984ingsoc said:
No offense to the blood god, but he stands no chance, he is going to suffer a humiliating defeat by will by the Downstreamers, in fact the Downstreamers could erase the entire 40k universe along with the warp since the warp is basically just a higher dimensional space powered by lower mortal consciousness
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It isn't just a higher-dimensional space. Even the Materium has countless higher dimensions and the Warp transcends it in its entirety. The Chaos Gods are completely unbound by these dimensions and view them as utterly trivial. It isn't powered by human consciousness, that collective consciousness just shapes how it's viewed to a degree.

and the Downstreamers kind of transcended dimensions so basically 1 Downstreamer= an outerversal deity, not to mention the entire civilization. Khorne cannot even defeat Slaanesh properly and Tzeentch could destroy him if he really wanted to.
This is utterly false. Khorne is the strongest Chaos God and can completely ignore anything that the others can do to him. He's never even actively tried to destoy the others so I have no idea what you're talking about. Downstreamers stomp but this argument is flawed as hell.
 
"powered by human consciousness" literally means nothing to how something is tiered. The collective will/belief of Humans in DC is one of the most powerful forces in the verse.
 
Also the Great Game can never actually end. Each Chaos God has had the most hegemony, only for them to be defeated and replaced. So Tzeentch cannot just up and defeat Khorne.

How to the Downstreamers stomp exactly? Do they transcend Khorne or something?
 
I mean I don't see the Chaos Gods as baseline. In Dark Imperium it's stated the Warp is layered infinities by the omniscient narrator. Even Azzy in his blog alluded to the Warp having higher layers/depths and Magnus the Red may have came across a higher one in Master of Prospero.

"Humans are beings of short reach. Give them voidships, change their shape by geneforge and augmetic, provide them with weapons of sufficient power to break a star, and the children of Old Earth are still but apes removed from the savannah. And just as an ape's mind cannot hold an ocean, and the notion of a whole world is inexplicable to it, so a man's mind cannot hold the void, and the layered infinities of the warp are beyond him entirely."
 
I mean, if you took it at face value, the Warp being 1-A in its entirety is feasible but I highly doubt that it would fly with the wiki.
 
When I said Tzeentch could defeat Khorne I meant that his scheming could result in him defeating and erasing Khorne if he really wanted to and since he is the archetype of fate he could probably weaken Khorne through his influence in scheming, however he does scheme for the fun of it so that is what I meant in that Tzeentch could defeat Khore but it would already be an infinite eternity so it would not matter. Downstreamers have infinite intellect in any moment of time through their loop brains which break every dimension and they are very capable in comprehending infinite infinities stacked on each other since that is the manifold verse. I admit I did not have enough knowledge about Khorne-Slaanesh relationship. Each downstreamer is akin if not more to Tzeentch in intellect and fate knowledge and they all unaffected by anything from the outside universe. Downstreamers do not have a cloudy Immaterium to see through to find out the fate of the universe since they have already pre-determined it in absolutes. Nothing is cloudy to Downstreamers, nothing is impossible and nothing is lost or unknown to them. To Tzeentch however, he somehow keeps on forgetting things and seeing cloudy futures and since Tzeentch is also a chaos god, things are not looking good for the less omniscient brother of Tzeentch Khorne. Khore May be far more powerful than Tzeentch instrength but he is not as knowledgeable nor manipulative and each Downstreamer is literally omniscient in the same or not greater degree as Tzeentch.
 
I never said that the Downstreamers don't stomp but that stuff about Khorne being weaker than Tzeentch is what bothered me.
 
Planck69 said:
I mean, if you took it at face value, the Warp being 1-A in its entirety is feasible but I highly doubt that it would fly with the wiki.
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Fundamentally, the Warp is a dimensionless expanse where dimensions only exists in the capacity of those who will it.

The Warp is kinda convoluted at times but that's only because canonically different characters have different interpretations on it. If we take what the most knowledgeable characters say or the most non-contradicted stuff, then it should fine.

The only problem would be people claiming every character is 1-A because X, Y and Z but anyone who's read the books clearly knows this isn't the case.
 
If The Emperor of Mankind can raise himself to 1-A´╝îDownstreamers can create an infinite number of The Emperor of Mankind.

I even doubt Khorne can defeat the Q´╝êStar trek）.
 
Planck69 said:
Wuhaoyu said:
I even doubt Khorne can defeat the Q´╝êStar trek）.
Click to expand...
Q are 1-B, Khorne's avatars are High 1-B. What are you basing this claim on?
Click to expand...
Q is also said to have a description of transcending dimensions´╝îso High 1-b attack is not enough to defeat Q.

In addition, in many stories, the existence of low dimension can defeat the existence of high dimension or even outerverse. As long as there is enough research and promotion. Q has transcended time, and Warhammer 40K allows a weaker character to improve himself in a reasonable way, so he can create countless "Q's believers", instantly imitating the improvement of the emperor of man kind from 7-c to 1-A.
 
1) Then upgrade Q

2) It is technically possible for Warhammer Psionics to create 1-A beings but that doesent mean a character that entered Warhammer could become 1-A
 
Transcending dimensions in the new tiering system is at best Low 1-C without further context and given what we know of Star Trek, this context just puts the Q at 1-B. Make a CRT if you want but this is how we treat Star Trek and these "transcend dimensions" feats in general.

Transcending time is something that even 2-Cs in Warhammer have done, much less the Warp Daemons and Gods so what Q has is not even impressive. And what do you even mean by improving from 7-C to 1-A? The Emperor we see is just the projection of an entity that isn't bound by any notion of space and time so no, there isn't any "research or promotion" involved.

And a lower dimensional being can beat a higher dimensional one either with smurf hax or just plain PIS. So I'm not sure where you get off saying a 1-B can beat a High 1-B.
 
When was The Emperor ever 7-C? Most characters who jump tiers in Warhammer become vastly more powerful over thousands of years by gaining more knowledge of how to manipulate the Warp, or just are granted boons by more powerful entities. The Emperor didn't become powerful because of belief, he was always powerful.

So you think with preparation time Q could defeat Khorne if he could use the Warp as a resource? I mean the collective belief of Eldar was enough to at least "awaken" Slaanesh from the perspective of the materium but when we do vs battles we don't do "this character gets to use the other characters metaphysics" and also Q merely becoming 1-A using prep and the Warp doesn't mean he could defeat Khorne either.

Also it isn't as simple as "create a bunch of believers and transcend" otherwise there's high amounts of characters in 40k who could do just that.
 
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