Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 31

[Dragonmasterxyz]

@Ryu I 100% Agree. Yes Goku has flaws. Beerus addressed his biggest flaw in the episode he asked Zeno to host the tournament. Does this make him a villain? Not at all. Goku is naive. Simple as that. Not evil...And don't get me started on people saying Goku's evil due to his smile from the intro.....

 

[Ryukama]

Ryukama Since the fight take place in infinite of nothingness. Which means no planets, stars, galaxies, space and time, but character like Hercules and Majin Buu can survive it. I think that he concept is that you cant harm the universe/life in it.

I'm not sure what that at all has to do with what I am saying. My point was people are putting way too much blame on Goku for this tournament and making him out to be some evil monster. Apologies if I am missing something but I don't see how the infinite void of nothing is related to that.

 

[RadicalMrR]

Goku did the right thing because at the very least he saved 1 universe with the tournament.

 

[Ryukama]

Goku didn't really do anything. He asked for a simple tournament not knowing Zen'ō was going to plan on doing anything beyond that.

It's like if a martial artist asks someone who acted like their friend to have a sparring match. He agrees then suddenly says "based on how this match goes I'll kill someone" and now calling the martial artist a murderer. Or if the guy says "based on how this match goes I'll kill less people than I was planning on" then calling the martial artist a hero who saved a life.

Zen'ō really holds all responsibility for these actions in my opinion. Yeah Goku acted very stupid and made a really poor decision that he shows nowhere near enough concern over. But I don't think anyone can say he conciously or willingly made an act evil or good.

 

[RadicalMrR]

I actually dont think the Zenos arent to blame either, the two are even more naive than Goku and from what ive seen intelligence wise they arent playing with a full deck so I highly doubt he came up with the mortal level thing or the idea of destroying the losing universes. Personally I think the Grand Priest is behind the all of this, he seems extremely intelligent and is completely down with the destruction of the universes just like his kids. I think hes kinda like Jafar from Aladdin, he spouts a bunch of BS to Zeno and they just go along with it.

 

[Ryukama]

If Zen'ō can actually observe and judge countless civilizations in order to determine their quality of life and advancement of their numerous socities. Then he should be more than capable of basic empathy and knowing that killing someone is wrong. But I guess Daishinkan may be manipulating Zen'ō.

Either way even if Zen'ō is not aware of what he is doing, he is directly causing the death of countless lives and is killing them himself. Goku really has nothing but rather indirect cause in any of this. And I do not believe any statement can be made about his moral compass based off what happened, besides judging his reaction to it really.

 

[RadicalMrR]

I don't think he was the one observing the civilizations just think about, he barely managed to find out about the tournament between universe 6 and 7, than when Goku Black was causing a muk he had no clue what was going on until he was teleported into the thick of it. This is why i think the Grand Priest is behind this, Zamasu's zero mortals plan would fit his agenda for destruction of the universes while keeping his children safe.

 

[Ryukama]

Well Zen'ō could have just not cared enough to observe anything and then decided to judge these universes. Regardless if he did come up with this mortal thing, then I think he is very obviously without any sort of excuse for what he's doing.

I guess the Daishinkan thing is and reasonable prediction for now though.

 

[I_s_u-c_l_o_n_e]

I very much doubt the Grand Priest is a puppet master controling Zeno by the strings. It's mostly the fact that he is likely the 2nd strongest being in the Multiverse and no one would be able to stop him. I can't see him being a villain when nobody, most likely, is anywhere close to being as strong as him.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

Why could he not be the puppeteer? If his actions were viewed as unjust or annoying to the Zen'os they may kill him, so he has to work around them to fulfill his plans. The end result may come down to Goku getting at least one Zeno'o to side with him to beat the otherwise unbeatable Grand Priest. Ruling that out as a possibility seems a bit off based on the evidence we have, though it may be wrong.

Also, despite Zen'o being naive as a child, how intelligent would he need to be to judge billions upon billions of beings and systematically formulate a universal average for each universe? Seems pretty far up there.

 

[I_s_u-c_l_o_n_e]

I suppose. It just seems really odd for him to be made a villain when the only one that could defeat him are either one of the Zeno.

 

[RadicalMrR]

He is one of the 5 strongest so there is still 3 people who can match the Grand Priest as well as all of their counterparts from different universes and tori-bot if you count him.

 

[Ryukama]

Nothing, besides the manga, states where in the Top 5 Daishinkan stands.

Perhaps he is second to just Zen'ō. Only time would tell.

 

[Blanked]

Zeno simply doesn't give a f*** and wants to destroy all of the worthless universes.

 

[I_s_u-c_l_o_n_e]

If he's Zeno's attendant I doubt he's any lower than 3. I could see like one being who doesn't interact with any of the other gods being stronger, but anything less just doesn't seem right.

 

[Hakaishim]

The system that zeno or daishinkan created, is like an index of human development, and mortality, basically the unversos that zen or will erase, are the universes possess little life, that is to say high rate of mortality (the culprits for this in universe 7, They are not freza, majin boo, and also bilss and shin that they did not fulfill right with their functions like administrators of the universe (together and basically what kaioshins and destroyers do, they destroy the inutiu (like the babari population) leaving little or no inhabitant deta Race, so that the other races, evolve)

 

[Darkmon_cns]

I don't see why everyone thinks it was Zeno or grand preset who made it? for all we know it was a clever mortal who told a god or something there really is no confirmation of it.

 

[I_s_u-c_l_o_n_e]

I mean considering that Zeno is the King of everything that probably is a big reason why people think that.

 

[Darkmon_cns]

I mean considering that Zeno is the King of everything that probably is a big reason why people think that.

there's just no form of confirmation which is why I don't quite understand why everyone thinks it Surly Zeno most of aproved of it at one point but we don't know who made it.

 

[I_s_u-c_l_o_n_e]

Because it being either Zeno or the Grand Priest is the most logical answer?

 

[MeleeniumRXJ]

If he's Zeno's attendant I doubt he's any lower than 3. I could see like one being who doesn't interact with any of the other gods being stronger, but anything less just doesn't seem right.

Grand Priest can still be weaker than Zeno's two body guards, and he can still be weaker than Zarama, the Dragon God. Counting Zeno (not both of them), that's four beings that are potentially stronger than Grand Priest.

And I have a feeling Zarama is incredibly powerful if he/she is able to make what seems to be omnipotent Dragon Balls.

On the flip side, there's a possibilty that Grand Priest is stronger than Zen'o. Think about it. All the angels are stronger than the people they attend to. Grand Priest may not be any different, and he may be abusing his position to manipulat Zen'o.

 

[I_s_u-c_l_o_n_e]

I doubt the guards are stronger than him, I don't know it's just a feeling. Like I said one other being that doesn't interact with the gods being stronger is something I could see.

 

[MeleeniumRXJ]

Why have two weak ass body guards (weak being relative here)? If he has an attendent that's the second strongest being in existence, then why have two body guards that are weaker than the attendent?

 

[I_s_u-c_l_o_n_e]

Even if they were weaker they'd probably still be stronger than Whis and the other angels I'd imagine.

 

[Ryukama]

According to the manga Daishinkan is stronger than the guards. But perhaps the anime is going to go against that.

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

I very much doubt the Grand Priest is a puppet master controling Zeno by the strings. It's mostly the fact that he is likely the 2nd strongest being in the Multiverse and no one would be able to stop him. I can't see him being a villain when nobody, most likely, is anywhere close to being as strong as him.

That ranking only includes the known world, for all we know there might be many more thingss beyond the 12 universes. Maybe there are beings who entirely eclipse the world in terms of power

 

[MeleeniumRXJ]

Also, I wonder why the future body guards are still around, but not future Grand Priest? We saw that the two Zenos now have four body guards, although now in the tournament arc, it's back to two.

 

[Hakaishim]

I very much doubt the Grand Priest is a puppet master controling Zeno by the strings. It's mostly the fact that he is likely the 2nd strongest being in the Multiverse and no one would be able to stop him. I can't see him being a villain when nobody, most likely, is anywhere close to being as strong as him.

That ranking only includes the known world, for all we know there might be many more thingss beyond the 12 universes. Maybe there are beings who entirely eclipse the world in terms of power

This rank is not of force, but of human development (or mortal since you do not accept the human term for alien beings even this term being used of always emd ragon ball) Basically the universes where the development of the races and low are the ones that will participate of the tournament (development low type the race of the babari, medio development would be type of the land and high would be type of the race freza) in the universes where there are more beings developed like the Sayajins of the universe 6, or the tsufurujins of the own universe seven before being exterminated by the sayajins,

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

@Hakaishim

No, we are talking about the top 5 beings in the known db multiverse. Apparently daishinkan is among the top 5. My hypothesis was that it is possible for beings in the db verse to exist beyond what we currently know about the 12 universes. Like what if there are infinitely many world with each world having a zeno and several universes? In such a case, even daishinkan would be insiginificant compared to higher entities, so I suggested that it is possible for daishinkan to use the omni king in order to topple a higher order or to ascend higher himself

 

[Hakaishim]

@Hakaishim
No, we are talking about the top 5 beings in the known db multiverse. Apparently daishinkan is among the top 5. My hypothesis was that it is possible for beings in the db verse to exist beyond what we currently know about the 12 universes. Like what if there are infinitely many world with each world having a zeno and several universes? In such a case, even daishinkan would be insiginificant compared to higher entities, so I suggested that it is possible for daishinkan to use the omni king in order to topple a higher order or to ascend higher himself

Akira is very simplistic with respect to dragon bll, do not think it would make daishinkan a villain, and easier it to make the connection with db online and xenoverse than to do this.


Now a question, if zen or sama has an uprated version of all the powers and hax already presented in dragon ball until today, including official noncanonical works what would be the lv of zeno if he fose a supposed composite of the characters of created dragon ball To get you officially today, but that your powers and Hax be upped to the maximum of the hax level that these powers and hax could be what would be the lv TIER of zeno and who he would win

 

[MeleeniumRXJ]

@Hakaishim

Because of Akira Toriyama's simplicity, a lot of people thought that he wouldn't bring back time travel shinanigans and that Future Trunks returning was just a rumor. Yet, it happened. And it was not simplistic at all. But all things considered, it still worked out great and wasn't too convoluted.

We have to remember that DBS is not just Akira Toriyama. He has a team of writers helping him. I think anything can happen at this point, and we shouldn't underestimate how complex the story can get.

I personally would like to see Toribot tied into all this, since he's sort of the real King of Everything here.

 

[I_s_u-c_l_o_n_e]

That ranking only includes the known world, for all we know there might be many more thingss beyond the 12 universes. Maybe there are beings who entirely eclipse the world in terms of power

I'm talking about how in the known world it's unlikely to me that there would be anyone other than Zeno being stronger than him.

 

[Darkinx]

Also, I wonder why the future body guards are still around, but not future Grand Priest? We saw that the two Zenos now have four body guards, although now in the tournament arc, it's back to two.

As far as I know, the future guards have been around only for one episode, the first of the arc. If you see them now, there are only 2.

 

[MeleeniumRXJ]

Thanks for repeating almost exactly what I said.

 

[Gokuiscool144]

I find it funny that we have seen a feat from zeno before we have even seen Whis fight lol

 

[Soldier_Blue]

^ Unless you count Whis taking out Beerus with a single chop and making Goku & Vegeta look like babies in comparison while training them.

 

[Gokuiscool144]

^ Unless you count Whis taking out Beerus with a single chop and making Goku & Vegeta look like babies in comparison while training them.

I meant as in a serious fight against someone his level. Sucks that "Angels are not allowed to interfere" unless the universe is about to blow up because of the Gods of Destruction. Sigh.

 

[Ssr4vegito]

Hey does anyone think that immourt soul zamasu merged with all the universes from future trunks timeline if he did what tier would he be?

 

[Ssr4vegito]

Hey does anyone think that immourt soul zamasu merged with all the universes from future trunks timeline if he did what tier would he be?

 

[Sidali891]

Ssr4vegito

It doesn't matter. Because it seems the staph have agreed that the DB universes share the same space-time. Even if he what you said is true, he would still be Low 2-C due to that..