Dragon Ball Z/Super Speed Downgrade

[Dark649]

In Gohan, Buu and Vegito profile there is a possibly MFTL speed, i'd like to know were this possibly speed feat was demostrated. Also Super Gohan should not have the possibly MFTL speed because he was slower and not able to dodge Frieza lasers (who is at least FTL+), lastly were it was stated that he is completely tied with Piccolo.

 

[LuciferSPN]

If Vegito is not mftl then who is in Z?

That speed of lasers was back on Nakem,this frieza was much stronger faster,so his attack are too.

Gohan in his base is strong as Piccolo,as SSJ he is strong as he was on his peak

 

[RadicalMrR]

Gohan is way weaker now than he was in Z.

There is a MFTL calc for buu buts its not accepted but the possibly comes from the fact that they have been FTL+ ever since Goku fought Frieza for the first time.

 

[SomebodyData]

On the last case I agree.

However the Possibly MFTL stems from the fact that (And get ready, this is a long one)

FP Frieza (FTL+ ~40c) < SSJ Goku (Namek Saga) << SSJ Trunks / SSJ Goku (Mecha Frieza Saga) <<< Androids 18 and 17 << Imperfect Cell (Final Appearance) <<< Semi-Perfect Cell << USSJ Vegeta <<< Perfect Cell <<<<< SSJ2 Gohan < Majin Vegeta and SSJ2 Goku << Majin Buu < SSJ3 Goku / SSJ Gotenks (Pre-ROSAT) << SSJ Gotenks <<<<< SSJ3 Gotenks/ Super Buu << Ultimate Gohan << Gotenks Buu <<< Ultimate Gohan Buu <<<<< Super Vegito

 

[LuciferSPN]

Gohan is way weaker now than he was in Z.
There is a MFTL calc for buu buts its not accepted but the possibly comes from the fact that they have been FTL+ ever since Goku fought Frieza for the first time.

Nop,he ain't

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXHXwZALf6g

Or watch episode,he literally states that he needs to go SSJ to be as strong as he was in his peak

 

[RadicalMrR]

That is completely absurd he hasn't trained in years there is 0 reason to believe he got exponentially stronger from doing nothing even if he did say it we can't take it into account.

 

[Antoniofer]

I think that the MFTL thing come from Majin Buu destroying a galaxy in a certain amount of time, however, distance and time frame is unknown, and possibly other things. Actually, the only think that is show to be FTL is the Frieza feat with the beams, and even that the official guide doesn't specifies if is real light

 

[RadicalMrR]

@Antonio Buu destroyed hundreds of stars in a couple of years the high ball being 2 years and 900 stars.

 

[Dark649]

The MFTL thing come from Majin Buu destroying a galaxy in a certain amount of time.

It is from the anime, which we don't accept because we follow the main canon.

 

[LuciferSPN]

That is completely absurd he hasn't trained in years there is 0 reason to believe he got exponentially stronger from doing nothing even if he did say it we can't take it into account.

he got weaker,i mean his ultimate & base form was much stronger than now,in fact around 50 times stronger.That's why his needs SSJ multiplier of 50 to reach that peak

 

[Huesito88]

Yep what he said above

 

[RadicalMrR]

@Dark no the galaxy destroying bit is from the anime but destroying hundreds of stars in a couple of years is directly from the manga.

 

[Antoniofer]

The number of the stars, years and the way of how Buu destroyed them still being unknown, and considering that Buu never showed nor imply MFTL speed in battle, better not assume anything and leave him just in At least FLT+

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

What? Buu never destroyed stars in the manga he destroyed planets.

 

[AidenBrooks999]

MFTL could be reached from Cell Saga even.

But people doesn't agree with that.

 

[AidenBrooks999]

I mean, like the SS multiplier

We only use it for KK, but not for Super Saiyan, even when SS proved to faster than KK.

 

[Antoniofer]

I also believe that @Aiden, not sure why we multiply speed with KK but not with SSJ (not sure if if consider calc staking, but if we use it/don't use it with one, we shoul/shouldn't with the other); however, that only works with PL, so speed/DC still being unkown times higher

 

[AidenBrooks999]

I'm suggesting that with multipliers only, then just use power scaling

For example:

Goku's base speed (Namek Saga) is 1.06299 times SoL

So, Super Saiyan would be 53.1495c (FTL+)

Presumed SS2 Goku (Namek Saga) 106.299c (Massively FTL) (Gohan and SPC should be significally faster, but this is a good low end)

Then, SS3 Goku (Namek Saga), 425.196c (Massively FTL)

Characters like Buuhan and Vegito should be Likely MFTL+

 

[Dark649]

Characters like Buuhan and Vegito should be Likely MFTL+

And Universe 6 characters i presume.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

I'm going to say that I find it kinda ridiculous to go from FTL to MFTL+ via stacking multipliers like that. That's the exact same reasons calc stacking isn't allowed. It inflates statistics to level never shown.

But it doesn't look like I'll convince stats either way so whatever.

 

[Antoniofer]

I prefer to not use multiplier in a speed calculated that could be not right, I will prefer to use it with a stated speed; another problem is that MFTL+ speed, not even MFTL speed hasn't been showed, and could result in a outlier (man, not even FTL feats hasn't been showed...)

 

[AidenBrooks999]

I'm going to say that I find it kinda ridiculous to go from FTL to MFTL+ via stacking multipliers like that. That's the exact same reasons calc stacking isn't allowed. It inflates statistics to level never shown.
But it doesn't look like I'll convince stats either way so whatever.

Should I mention that Kaio-Ken and Super Saiyan forms have "official multipliers" and the fact that we have characters that use multipliers like this one

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Kars has a multiplier added on once, but we didn't accept the "million times fold" thing because that would just be calc stacking IIRC. The same should apply here.

 

[AidenBrooks999]

Did you even how KK and SS work?

Because it looks like you don't.

 

[HokageMangaVox]

^ other series have multipliers, and they're not use at all in this wiki. Like, Bleach.

 

[The_Everlasting]

Super Saiyan doesn't linearly increase speed, it only linearly increases power.

 

[LordXcano]

I am aware that we don't use SSJ multipliers for speed but I just thought I'd say that SSJ3 should be 400c using those and Vegito is far above them (I've seen a 400x multiplier thrown around but I don't know where that came from). So MFTL does seem fairly justified, but it should probably have a note next to is that this is implied by both the massive boosts in power since Namek and the SSJ multipliers.

EDIT: Potaro is said to be a multiplier of both fighter's strength. In that case...

Vegeta - 250,000

Goku - 3,000,000

3,000,000*250,000 = 750,000,000,000

SSJ3 can be calculated to have a PL of 1,200,000,000 through the SSJ multipliers (which do multiply PL linearly).

750,000,000,000/1,200,000,000 = 625x multiplier, while again we aren't sure it's exact relation to speed it does definitely back up at least MFTL

 

[AidenBrooks999]

Super Saiyan 1 is 50 times Base

SS2 is 2 SS1 or 100 base

SS3 is 4 SS2 or 400 Base

 

[LuciferSPN]

Super Saiyan doesn't linearly increase speed, it only linearly increases power.

That doesn't make sense

SSJ increases speed,durability and attack poteny for 50x

 

[AidenBrooks999]

I am aware that we don't use SSJ multipliers for speed but I just thought I'd say that SSJ3 should be 400c using those and Vegito is far above them (I've seen a 400x multiplier thrown around but I don't know where that came from). So MFTL does seem fairly justified, but it should probably have a note next to is that this is implied by both the massive boosts in power since Namek and the SSJ multipliers.
EDIT: Potaro is said to be a multiplier of both fighter's strength. In that case...

Vegeta - 250,000

Goku - 3,000,000

3,000,000*250,000 = 750,000,000,000

SSJ3 can be calculated to have a PL of 1,200,000,000 through the SSJ multipliers (which do multiply PL linearly).

750,000,000,000/1,200,000,000 = 625x multiplier, while again we aren't sure it's exact relation to speed it does definitely back up at least MFTL

Ok, that one looks kind of stacking tho.

 

[AidenBrooks999]

And pretty that Potara statement is just fanmade

 

[TakatoBlue]

And pretty that Potara statement is just fanmade

Vegetto power level

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The miraculous merger of the mighty warriors who have refined each others strength through rivalry, Goku and Vegeta! The power up owing to the merger is not the sum of their two battle powers, but something as amazing as "multiplication"!


Translated by Herms.

 

[AidenBrooks999]

Huh.

Well, but that doesn't applies to speed anyways.

 

[Darkmon_cns]

Huh.
Well, but that doesn't applies to speed anyways.

why not?

 

[Antoniofer]

So, Toriyama still using PL even after Namek saga, eh? also, I think that base Goku PL during Buu saga were similar to Frieza (not sure if it was 50% or 100% tho)

 

[LuciferSPN]

Huh.
Well, but that doesn't applies to speed anyways.

So now nothing anymore contribute to speed?not transformation,not pl,not fusion.Then why they bother with transforming anyway

 

[Promestein]

I'm very against using multipliers.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Same.

 

[AidenBrooks999]

Transofrmation, yes. It has and official multiplier.

Fusion, no. It has no oficial multiplier, and make "speed*speed" would truly be calc stacking.

"Then why they bother with transforming anyway" because they become faster, but that doesn't mean that we can just make "speed*speed"

 

[AidenBrooks999]

So, Toriyama still using PL even after Namek saga, eh? also, I think that base Goku PL during Buu saga were similar to Frieza (not sure if it was 50% or 100% tho)

He does? Pretty the last PL I saw was the Kiri (but V-Jump Magazine amde the worst interpretation EVER: Buu Saga Goku's PL = Namek Saga Goku's)