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Dungeons and Dragons' Gods upgrade

RotofBots

RotofBots

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DnD God s should have type 1 Abstract Existence:

The Abyss is impossibly ancient by mortal reckoning, born in an Age before Ages when the aftershocks of creation still thrummed throughout the cosmos. Powerful primordials of manifest entropy ruled this epoch, forming whole worlds from raw elemental matter and then destroying them. Another race of beings dwelled in the remoter reaches of the cosmos-immortal deities born of faith and ideas rather than elements and matter. The primordials and the gods had not yet made contact in this long ago era before the Dawn War. The birth of the Abyss
changed this. as it changed so many things ....
~ Demonomicon p. 2​
Like other creatures of the Outer Planes, devils are abstractions given a semblance of fleshly existence. Though they might appear to be biological creatures composed of flesh, bones, blood, and viscera, they are in fact magical expressions of particular universal concepts. Internally, some devils bear basic similarities to humanoid anatomy, but others are completely bizarre. Because of their unusual physiology, devils can blithely ignore most of the biological needs that drive the humanoids and animals of the Material Plane.
~ Fiendish Codex II: Tyrants of the Nine Hells​
It states that tGods aren't made of matter but of faiths and ideas. Since existing as an idea is type 1 abstraction, it should be given to them.
 
"Given a semblance of fleshy existence" kind of implies they actually have some sort of body. In fact, the second paragraph is actually describing their physiology.
 
Not really. It depends on how magic is presented. It could be materialized magic.

That statement. seems to be implying that they are embodiments, not actual disembodied concepts.
 
I suggest you message Assaltwaffle, he is more knowledgeable about abstract stuff.
 
D&D Gods are the physical embodiments of concepts. They themselves are not abstract ideas.
 
Only 1 is a slight possible, at best. The other is something else entirely.
 
Neither have any evidence of being divine. One is a embodiment of magic the other is a snake woman who guards the fulcrum of the multiverse.
 
So, This would effect all gods and give them type 1 abstract existence correct? Now that I think about it, the only times Vecna got hurt by things other than the sword of kas they were just his avatars
 
The first seems to just describe their Type 8 Immortality, and Devils do seem to have Type 1.
 
"Though they might appear to be biological creatures composed of flesh, bones, blood, and viscera, they are in fact magical expressions of particular universal concepts"

This is definitely type 1 abstract existence
 
Yes. Devils.
 
I've got nothing against it. They can have Type 1 as far as I'm concerned, but that would mean D&D deities can interact with Type 1 abstracts. As well as other beings, too.
 
The one named Asmodeus should. We literally said the gods shouldn't as they are just embodiments of concepts.
 
Embodiments of concepts CAN be type 1, but it depends.

"Exists purely as an abstraction. These characters lack a true physical form, and affecting them requires the ability to affect directly the abstraction itself, because eventual physical manifestations are merely avatars."
 
Yeah they don't exist as abstracts and Gods can still be slain by stuff that isn't divine/something like the LOP. D&D Gods just have to much going against them for an abstract rating imo.
 
They don't lack a true physical form, at least, not that we know of. Devils are stated to lack that form, so Asmodeus gets it. All this means for Gods is that their Non-Physical Interaction (as well as those of any magic user) now extends to Abstract Type 1.
 
Asmodeus seems to weird too get it. His background ranges from Ancient Brethren, to giant Dragon, to fallen angel, to evil god, to just a devil. He seems to contradicting for a proper rating
 
Also I feel Asmodeus should get a few extra keys. He only became a Greater God super recently and it seems weird to rate his base form at that level.
 
But he didn't do that until he became a Greater God and the Abyss he moved wasn't 2-A.
 
Qa, remember, I showed you the quote where it said the Abyss had infinite Planes.
 
Yes, in every edition the Abyss has infinite planes. However only in 1e and 2 were the planar layers spatially infinite.

  • 1e/2e = Infinite amount of infinite planes. Aka 2A
  • 3e and on = Infinite amount of finite planes with some layers being infinite. Aka 2C to 2B, but not 2A.
 
Wasn't Asmodeus always somewhat comparable though? I don't ever remember Asmodeus being considered godly fodder like a Demon Lord.
 
Mr. Bambu said:
Wasn't Asmodeus always somewhat comparable though? I don't ever remember Asmodeus being considered godly fodder like a Demon Lord.
Click to expand...
The most I remember is a quote that Gods in the Nine Hells respect his authority and don't challenge him. Along with general respect. Even in 2e it was like this, with Gods just ignoring the Devils since the planar layers were infinite. I think I'd warrent a 2-C rating considering what he was dealimg with, but I don't know about 2-A

> Infinite amount of finite space-times is still 2-A, actually

Really? Where does it say that?
 
Any fictional verse where each individual universe isn't infinite? They're rated 2-A on our wiki

@Lancer most DnD gods already have type 2, this is about if it should be upgraded
 
The quotes given proves that they embody Universal Concepts aka Type 2 Abstraction even if their body is made up of flesh.
 
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