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- #41
I'm waiting on Kachon
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East Blue Luffy Is Cracked
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- Thread starter
- #42
bump
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- Thread starter
- #43
bump
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- Thread starter
- #44
Bump
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OP looks fine to me. Nice job, bud 
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Minor Bump
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- #47
Bump
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Bump.
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Minor Bump
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Minor Bump
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- #51
Bump
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- #55
I'll update everything soon
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I assume you mean the OP?
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- #57
Yes
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I'm waiting for the OP to be updated before re-evaluating this.
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- #62
Updated stuff, but the A.P values are still the same for now since the Igaram calc has to be updated with the new pressure
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You've got Usopp's durability justification as this:
But Chew's AP justification as this:
But Chew's AP justification as this:
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You mean use the anime version? I'm a bit skeptical of that as there is some inconsistency in the anime; the last shot we see of the ship is here, only this far away from the island. And when we see the explosion from overhead in the anime the epicenter of much further away from the island than the ship was. Which means either the anime version isn't very reliable or the explosion wasn't detonated on the ship itself but near it.
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his calc is only in range for some reason.
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That's a left over from an older version of the scaling, I'll adjust it
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- #69
I would think a shot of the full island meant to convey the size of the explosion would be more reliable for scaling than a shot of just showing the edge of the island which is to convey Igaram is sailing away.
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I've got a new counter-argument to post, should have it up by tomorrow at the latest.
EDIT: Delayed this evening; getting it up Saturday.
EDIT: Delayed this evening; getting it up Saturday.
Last edited:
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I've gone back over the OP and the sandboxes, and I've compiled my thoughts for why I'm still voting to disagree with the OP's proposal.
Issue 1 - Destructiveness of the explosion
The first point that I want to bring to attention is that I believe that the calculation for the explosion of the coast of Whiskey Peak is higher than what was intended. Now, this isn't a point of incredulity in believing that the characters shouldn't be at this tier. It's based on examining the actual destructive effects of the explosion.
I didn't realize it until I reread it but we do actually get a look at the direct aftermath and effect of the explosion. In chapter 114, we can see Nico Robin coming across the remnants of the wooden ship that Igaram was sailing on and strangely enough it looks like significant portions of it are intact. There's the mast and sail, pieces of the hull, a barrel, and even one of the decoys that Igaram was using.
While the ship was fragmented... this is far less destructive than an explosion that is 230 Kilotons (Large Town level) should be producing. If you calculate the actual destruction of the ship, it will be far less powerful than the effects an explosion of this series should produce.
I believe this is important to take into consideration because we have precedent for similar situations when it comes to kinetic energy calculations. If the destructive effects of a kinetic energy feat do not correlate with the calculated value of the kinetic energy, then the results are deemed unreliable. Preference is given to actual destructiveness as this is regarded as better proof of how much damage an attack can inflict. It's not like the doll decoy or the wooden barrel would be assigned a Large Town level durability rating either for surviving the explosion.
Issue 2 - Inverse-square law
My next point is that even if we granted that the explosion is really as powerful as what has been calculated, that doesn't make it correct to scale Igaram's durability to the full value of the calc just because he was in the proximity of the explosion and survived it.
The inverse-square law means that intensity drops off with distance as the explosion spreads outward. To give you the idea of how much this could lower the intensity that he'd actually take, I'll give you a rudimentary example calculation. Assuming that the epicenter of the explosion was ten meters away from Igaram, which is plausible given that it's a decently large ship that he's sailing on, and using cross-sectional surface area of 1.1159m^2 for him to account for him being significantly taller than average, the amount of actual energy he's got hit by would be roughly 409.05 Tons (Multi-City Block level). And that's not taking into account the material that could've been between Igaram and the explosive itself dampening the effects, or the fact that we can't say with absolutely certainty that he was hit at all since we don't know his exact location at the time of the explosion and it's plausible that Robin deliberately spared him - there is a lot of ambiguity here as it is never clarified to the reader exactly how Igaram survived. We've just got to go off context that Robin was disloyal to Crocodile. And let's be real, is Nico Robin so incompetent as an assassin that she would use an explosion that would leave Igaram alive and with barely a scratch?
So distance is absolutely a factor that would be relevant for Igaram not scaling to the full value. Typically for explosive feats, you need visual evidence of the characters being within point-blank range of the explosion to consider scaling them full to it.
Issue 3 - Scaling issues
Lastly I believe that even if we did grant that the explosion is as powerful as what has been calculated and that we did somehow scale Igaram's durability to the full value, that would contradict the general powerscaling of this early part of One Piece.
Here are the other AP calculations that the relevant characters in this scaling chain for East Blue Saga and Alabasta Saga have:
You have characters in the East Blue Saga who have calculations ranging from High 8-C to 8-A but this proposal would make them all High 7-C, effectively ignoring their own individual feats. There are just no support feats at this stage in the manga, for the characters to be this powerful this early on. That's why I think it's an extremely bad idea to make Igaram the foundation stone for the scaling chain of every single East Blue Saga character.
@FinePoint @Vietthai96 @KingTempest As you've all commented on this thread before, I'm hoping that you could give my reasons for disagreeing a read when convenient.
Issue 1 - Destructiveness of the explosion
The first point that I want to bring to attention is that I believe that the calculation for the explosion of the coast of Whiskey Peak is higher than what was intended. Now, this isn't a point of incredulity in believing that the characters shouldn't be at this tier. It's based on examining the actual destructive effects of the explosion.
I didn't realize it until I reread it but we do actually get a look at the direct aftermath and effect of the explosion. In chapter 114, we can see Nico Robin coming across the remnants of the wooden ship that Igaram was sailing on and strangely enough it looks like significant portions of it are intact. There's the mast and sail, pieces of the hull, a barrel, and even one of the decoys that Igaram was using.
While the ship was fragmented... this is far less destructive than an explosion that is 230 Kilotons (Large Town level) should be producing. If you calculate the actual destruction of the ship, it will be far less powerful than the effects an explosion of this series should produce.
I believe this is important to take into consideration because we have precedent for similar situations when it comes to kinetic energy calculations. If the destructive effects of a kinetic energy feat do not correlate with the calculated value of the kinetic energy, then the results are deemed unreliable. Preference is given to actual destructiveness as this is regarded as better proof of how much damage an attack can inflict. It's not like the doll decoy or the wooden barrel would be assigned a Large Town level durability rating either for surviving the explosion.
Issue 2 - Inverse-square law
My next point is that even if we granted that the explosion is really as powerful as what has been calculated, that doesn't make it correct to scale Igaram's durability to the full value of the calc just because he was in the proximity of the explosion and survived it.
The inverse-square law means that intensity drops off with distance as the explosion spreads outward. To give you the idea of how much this could lower the intensity that he'd actually take, I'll give you a rudimentary example calculation. Assuming that the epicenter of the explosion was ten meters away from Igaram, which is plausible given that it's a decently large ship that he's sailing on, and using cross-sectional surface area of 1.1159m^2 for him to account for him being significantly taller than average, the amount of actual energy he's got hit by would be roughly 409.05 Tons (Multi-City Block level). And that's not taking into account the material that could've been between Igaram and the explosive itself dampening the effects, or the fact that we can't say with absolutely certainty that he was hit at all since we don't know his exact location at the time of the explosion and it's plausible that Robin deliberately spared him - there is a lot of ambiguity here as it is never clarified to the reader exactly how Igaram survived. We've just got to go off context that Robin was disloyal to Crocodile. And let's be real, is Nico Robin so incompetent as an assassin that she would use an explosion that would leave Igaram alive and with barely a scratch?
So distance is absolutely a factor that would be relevant for Igaram not scaling to the full value. Typically for explosive feats, you need visual evidence of the characters being within point-blank range of the explosion to consider scaling them full to it.
Issue 3 - Scaling issues
Lastly I believe that even if we did grant that the explosion is as powerful as what has been calculated and that we did somehow scale Igaram's durability to the full value, that would contradict the general powerscaling of this early part of One Piece.
Here are the other AP calculations that the relevant characters in this scaling chain for East Blue Saga and Alabasta Saga have:
- Buchi's Flying Drop Kick: High 8-C (8.52 Tons)
- Buggy Bomb: 8-B+ (66.61 Tons)
- Laboon's KE: 8-B+ (93.28 Tons)
- Sanji Kicks the Sabagashira I: 8-A (113.737405327 Tons)
- Hatchan kills an eel: 8-A (150.56 Tons)
- Babe's Explosions: 8-A (157.51 Tons)
You have characters in the East Blue Saga who have calculations ranging from High 8-C to 8-A but this proposal would make them all High 7-C, effectively ignoring their own individual feats. There are just no support feats at this stage in the manga, for the characters to be this powerful this early on. That's why I think it's an extremely bad idea to make Igaram the foundation stone for the scaling chain of every single East Blue Saga character.
@FinePoint @Vietthai96 @KingTempest As you've all commented on this thread before, I'm hoping that you could give my reasons for disagreeing a read when convenient.
Lilybitdun
She/Her- 2,400
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I don't understand why KE is being brought up for an explosion but I do feel like the psi should be lowered due to the amount of destruction done
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I'm not saying it's a KE feat; I'm just using the principle as a comparison.
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Well, my previous comment was essentially that I'm not qualified to say whether or not the calculations themselves are good, and the calculations being contested appears to still be true.
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My opinion remains the same.
Which means, at least in regards to calculations, I agree with Damage. I cannot give my opinions on the scaling consistency as I'm not familiar with it.
Unless someone provides a scan of Robin using her Devil Fruit to place or throw the bomb right on top of Igaram, I don't see why he'd scale to the full value. The scene in the manga remains unchanged regardless of where she places the bomb. It's not like anyone checks up on him. There's no counter to saying the bomb was placed anywhere else on the ship, beyond personal feelings. If there is something we don't know for certain, we should always go with the safer interpretation.
Also, I don't know why the explosion value is using 9 psi. It should be 6 to 8.
Considering that the bomb left such large fragments of a wooden ship, I think 6 psi would be best.
Which means, at least in regards to calculations, I agree with Damage. I cannot give my opinions on the scaling consistency as I'm not familiar with it.
Unless someone provides a scan of Robin using her Devil Fruit to place or throw the bomb right on top of Igaram, I don't see why he'd scale to the full value. The scene in the manga remains unchanged regardless of where she places the bomb. It's not like anyone checks up on him. There's no counter to saying the bomb was placed anywhere else on the ship, beyond personal feelings. If there is something we don't know for certain, we should always go with the safer interpretation.
Also, I don't know why the explosion value is using 9 psi. It should be 6 to 8.
Considering that the bomb left such large fragments of a wooden ship, I think 6 psi would be best.
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