Fairy Tail 100 Year Quest Discussion Thread: Post-Void Saga

[Spectra_Schiffer]

already neo eclipse is the most powerful technique? We do not claim otherwise

what are you talking about? I have already shown Zeref's purpose in the scans. He definitely aims to pass through the gate rather than die

What I'm talking about is that Zeref thinks he's dead here and is happy. If Zeref's aim was to win, he would have gone straight through the door.

stop using baseless claims

''Zeref's immortality doesn't work against anyone superior to him,''

Dude, are you serious when you wrote that? What do you mean it won't work? If he can't overcome immortality, it means he'll never be able to kill him. you told me in your previous post that zeref was afraid of acnologia even though he was immortal. but I told you how zeref could defeat selena.

nothing like this happened, Selene is superior to Zeref and Base Zeref is absolute fodder

First thing to go over is the fundamentals of how magic power works in Fairy Tail. In this verse, the quantity of magic power you have equates to how strong you are as a character. People with more magic power than others are shown as stronger in AP and Durability. This is proven by spells such as Second Origin and Third Origin which allow the user to gain a larger storage of magic power within their body and as a result, makes said person much stronger. As well, whenever a character absorbs magic power from another person or an external source and adds it to their own magic power, they also get stronger as a result. Not to mention that anytime in the series, whenever someone refers to another person as far stronger, they usually refer to the quantity of a person’s magic power. So, once again, if Object A has more magic power than Object B, then Object A is superior in Attack Power, that’s a fundamental law of the verse.

aint reading allat you do nothing but write a long text that has nothing to do with the topic, provide concrete evidence that if character X has infinite power, you can release that power in an instant, and you're done

 

[Spectra_Schiffer]

Honestly it's not even worth continuing when we know the story agrees with us. This is just them cherrypicking what they want out of the story to push an agenda, rather than going for what's accurate

I've literally seen claims that Base Zeref is superior to Post-SBT Acnologia here as well, it's hilarious

you're right buddy

 

[CloverDragon03]

Having an infinite supply of magic is not the same as being able to output all of it at once. It just means you won't run out of magic reserves

 

[Chardee.wl]

what are you talking about? I have already shown Zeref's purpose in the scans. He definitely aims to pass through the gate rather than die

why did he stop and fight if he was aiming to go through the gate? you contradict yourself

stop using baseless claims

''baseless'' lol you still have not been able to present a counter-argument to this

nothing like this happened, Selene is superior to Zeref and Base Zeref is absolute fodder

What? I mentioned it above. He can't overcome Zeref's immortality or any other ability. Either way, Zeref will be the winner.

aint reading allat you do nothing but write a long text that has nothing to do with the topic, provide concrete evidence that if character X has infinite power, you can release that power in an instant, and you're done

this is a quote from a scaling demon god mitch aubin did for etherion

 

[Chardee.wl]

aint reading allat you do nothing but write a long text that has nothing to do with the topic, provide concrete evidence that if character X has infinite power, you can release that power in an instant, and you're done

First of all, I will refute the arguments that zeref does not have infinite magic power output. Zeref has infinite magic power output because in fairy tail cosmology, if you have 100 magic power, let's say you have 100 magic power, you use this 100 magic power as soon as you use it, that is, you do not start from 50 or 60, you directly use the power at the top of your limits. The same logic applies to Zeref's infinite magic power, there will definitely be an infinite magic power output in Zeref's infinite magic power because Zeref uses 100% of Zeref's infinite magic power and Zeref has infinite power and he used it in his strike against Natsu.

 

[Spectra_Schiffer]

why did he stop and fight if he was aiming to go through the gate? you contradict yourself

His goal is to pass through the door, but first he must defeat Natsu, who is causing him trouble. Chardee, you must not confuse me with yourself. Stop using arguments that are refuted by the statements of the character you are defending.

''baseless'' lol you still have not been able to present a counter-argument to this

Why would I present a counter argument? Even someone who reads the manga once will understand that what you say is wrong. I explained this with scans above, but the only thing you can understand is "Neo eclipse is the most powerful". Bruh

What? I mentioned it above. He can't overcome Zeref's immortality or any other ability. Either way, Zeref will be the winner.

Even if you cannot transcend immortality, you can prevail......

this is a quote from a scaling demon god mitch aubin did for etherion

I don't think Mitch has a good handle on the High 3-A Zeref issue, but you'd really like to ask him.

First of all, I will refute the arguments that zeref does not have infinite magic power output. Zeref has infinite magic power output because in fairy tail cosmology, if you have 100 magic power, let's say you have 100 magic power, you use this 100 magic power as soon as you use it, that is, you do not start from 50 or 60, you directly use the power at the top of your limits. The same logic applies to Zeref's infinite magic power, there will definitely be an infinite magic power output in Zeref's infinite magic power because Zeref uses 100% of Zeref's infinite magic power and Zeref has infinite power and he used it in his strike against Natsu.

Attacking with all your strength =/= Being able to release all your magic power in one hit. Blud, you can't be serious, Zeref's High 3-A plot is pure comedy. Even if the characters in the universe use all their attack power, they cannot release all their magic power at once.

 

[DragonKing400]

Dude, I'm sorry about this, but seriously, are some people here still defending this stupid shit? I mean, I can't even call it a discussion. You're trying to understand the statements made in a series the way you want to understand them, not according to the series itself, and you're trying to sell them to others in this forum.

 

[Spectra_Schiffer]

Zeref's inverse debates should be banned

 

[DragonKing400]

First of all, I will refute the arguments that zeref does not have infinite magic power output. Zeref has infinite magic power output because in fairy tail cosmology, if you have 100 magic power, let's say you have 100 magic power, you use this 100 magic power as soon as you use it, that is, you do not start from 50 or 60, you directly use the power at the top of your limits. The same logic applies to Zeref's infinite magic power, there will definitely be an infinite magic power output in Zeref's infinite magic power because Zeref uses 100% of Zeref's infinite magic power and Zeref has infinite power and he used it in his strike against Natsu.

What you are saying is to ignore the concept of Ethernano and to say that everyone in the universe uses infinite magic, which you know better than me is absurd.

 

[Chardee.wl]

His goal is to pass through the door, but first he must defeat Natsu, who is causing him trouble. Chardee, you must not confuse me with yourself. Stop using arguments that are refuted by the statements of the character you are defending.

Dude, are you serious? You contradicted yourself again. The difference between Zeref and Natsu is seen here. It would have been enough for Zeref to take a few steps, but he stood and fought, even this refutes what you said.

Why would I present a counter argument? Even someone who reads the manga once will understand that what you say is wrong. I explained this with scans above, but the only thing you can understand is "Neo eclipse is the most powerful". Bruh

appeal to popularity ''Even someone who reads the manga once will understand that what you say is wrong'' Come on and present a counter-argument.

Even if you cannot transcend immortality, you can prevail......

now you need to tell me how selene is going to beat zeref as ap zeref is superior in speed they are both around 30x ftl. and in ability zeref is far superior simply death manipulation

Attacking with all your strength =/= Being able to release all your magic power in one hit. Blud, you can't be serious, Zeref's High 3-A plot is pure comedy. Even if the characters in the universe use all their attack power, they cannot release all their magic power at once.

if zeref attacks with all his power in fairy heart form, it will be an infinite power output. because even 0.1 of infinity is infinite

 

[CloverDragon03]

Dude, are you serious? You contradicted yourself again. The difference between Zeref and Natsu is seen here. It would have been enough for Zeref to take a few steps, but he stood and fought, even this refutes what you said.

Zeref wanted to settle things with Natsu. That doesn't mean he didn't go through because he wanted to die. He'd literally given up on the idea of dying

 

[Chardee.wl]

What you are saying is to ignore the concept of Ethernano and to say that everyone in the universe uses infinite magic, which you know better than me is absurd.

the only person in the universe with infinite magic power is zeref (as far as we can see) what I'm talking about is that if you attack with magic, you attack directly with all of your magic power, which gives zeref infinite power output

 

[Zeinx1]

masquerade slm

 

[Chardee.wl]

Zeref wanted to settle things with Natsu. That doesn't mean he didn't go through because he wanted to die. He'd literally given up on the idea of dying

What I'm talking about is that Spectra claims that Zeref was bloodthirsty. I say, if he was bloodthirsty, why didn't he just walk through the door and do everything the way he wanted?

 

[CloverDragon03]

What I'm talking about is that Spectra claims that Zeref was bloodthirsty. I say, if he was bloodthirsty, why didn't he just walk through the door and do everything the way he wanted?

Well either way, your own claim was that he still wanted to die, and that's why he didn't go through. He'd given up on dying. He simply wished to settle things with Natsu

 

[Chardee.wl]

Well either way, your own claim was that he still wanted to die, and that's why he didn't go through. He'd given up on dying. He simply wished to settle things with Natsu

what I'm talking about is that zeref was not bothered by dying, in fact he was happy. at the same time he didn't want to fight natsu and he wasn't bloodthirsty or he would have gone through the door

 

[Memonto_Mori]

why did he stop and fight if he was aiming to go through the gate? you contradict yourself

''baseless'' lol you still have not been able to present a counter-argument to this

What? I mentioned it above. He can't overcome Zeref's immortality or any other ability. Either way, Zeref will be the winner.

this is a quote from a scaling demon god mitch aubin did for etherion

The main purpose of zeref is to erase the last 400 years of time, go back in time and destroy himself. If you don't accept this, you directly reject the characteristic nature of zeref, which is a contradiction. There is only one proper reason for zeref to fight Natsu, and that is that Natsu is zerefs brother and was created to destroy zeref . Otherwise, we can think of it as a plot for Natsu to win, and when zeref is on his deathbed, a smile appears on his face, which is proof that zeref has achieved his goal, that is, his death.

so this is not a contradiction, probably the author wanted to represent Zeref's death wish in more than one different way

 

[Chardee.wl]

The main purpose of zeref is to erase the last 400 years of time, go back in time and destroy himself. If you don't accept this, you directly reject the characteristic nature of zeref, which is a contradiction. There is only one proper reason for zeref to fight Natsu, and that is that Natsu is zerefs brother and was created to destroy zeref . Otherwise, we can think of it as a plot for Natsu to win, and when zeref is on his deathbed, a smile appears on his face, which is proof that zeref has achieved his goal, that is, his death.

so this is not a contradiction, probably the author wanted to represent Zeref's death wish in more than one different way

Dude, that's what I'm talking about. The other people are saying that Zeref is bloodthirsty and that he lost to Natsu by using all his power.

 

[Spectra_Schiffer]

Dude, are you serious? You contradicted yourself again. The difference between Zeref and Natsu is seen here. It would have been enough for Zeref to take a few steps, but he stood and fought, even this refutes what you said.

Nothing contradicts me, Zeref aims to eliminate Natsu. In this way, no one could resist him on his way to realize Neo Eclipse.

appeal to popularity ''Even someone who reads the manga once will understand that what you say is wrong'' Come on and present a counter-argument.

This is not fallacy.. If I had said "everyone here rejects this" it could have appeal to popularity but I just used it to highlight the disgrace of the argument.. lil bro you should work better on fallacy

now you need to tell me how selene is going to beat zeref as ap zeref is superior in speed they are both around 30x ftl. and in ability zeref is far superior simply death manipulation

Selena = Pre SBT Acno >∞ Base Zeref

if zeref attacks with all his power in fairy heart form, it will be an infinite power output. because even 0.1 of infinity is infinite

This logic is very wrong. If we are to look at this, everyone with infinite energy should be High 3-A, but it does not work like that. Zeref has infinite magic power in his Fairy Heart state and Zeref does not use that "infinity" in a certain way, he is just transformed into someone who does not need to regenerate energy, thats all

 

[Memonto_Mori]

Dude, that's what I'm talking about. The other people are saying that Zeref is bloodthirsty and that he lost to Natsu by using all his power.

zeref is never a bloodthirsty person, on the contrary, according to his nature, his characteristics are quite calm

 

[Memonto_Mori]

Also, even if zeref has infinite power in statment, there is no proof that he ever released it, so it should never be H3A.

 

[Spectra_Schiffer]

Dude, that's what I'm talking about. The other people are saying that Zeref is bloodthirsty and that he lost to Natsu by using all his power.

Zeref isn't holding himself back on purpose.. Natsu literally wiped him out. Even if Zeref holds himself back, he can't lower his durabilty level.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Dude, that's what I'm talking about. The other people are saying that Zeref is bloodthirsty and that he lost to Natsu by using all his power.

Well yes, a full power Zeref did lose to a full power Natsu. The claim that he wasn't going all out has no merit and pretty much only exists as a means to push an agenda

 

[Valeska24]

First of all, I will refute the arguments that zeref does not have infinite magic power output. Zeref has infinite magic power output because in fairy tail cosmology, if you have 100 magic power, let's say you have 100 magic power, you use this 100 magic power as soon as you use it, that is, you do not start from 50 or 60, you directly use the power at the top of your limits. The same logic applies to Zeref's infinite magic power, there will definitely be an infinite magic power output in Zeref's infinite magic power because Zeref uses 100% of Zeref's infinite magic power and Zeref has infinite power and he used it in his strike against Natsu.

That's not exactly how it works around here, man.Mavis talking about Fairy Hearth's infinite magic power He was talking about firing etherion infinite times, which had the potential to destroy a country. This is an anti-statement that it will unleash infinite magic power at once. And you need to provide concrete evidence on this statement. If you have it, don't wait, open a CRT

 

[Chardee.wl]

Nothing contradicts me, Zeref aims to eliminate Natsu. In this way, no one could resist him on his way to realize Neo Eclipse.

That's what's wrong anyway. If Zeref had been bloodthirsty as you said, he would have passed through the gate and won, and Natsu would have vanished like the universe.

This is not fallacy.. If I had said "everyone here rejects this" it could have appeal to popularity but I just used it to highlight the disgrace of the argument.. lil bro you should work better on fallacy

"Anyone who reads the manga will understand this" is an indirect misconception.

Selena = Pre SBT Acno >∞ Base Zeref

It's funny that you still can't answer what I said and make statements without evidence.

This logic is very wrong. If we are to look at this, everyone with infinite energy should be High 3-A, but it does not work like that. Zeref has infinite magic power in his Fairy Heart state and Zeref does not use that "infinity" in a certain way, he is just transformed into someone who does not need to regenerate energy, thats all

No, not everyone with infinite energy has to be high 3a. What I am trying to explain is that Zeref has infinite power output, that's why he is high 3a.

 

[Chardee.wl]

That's not exactly how it works around here, man.Mavis talking about Fairy Hearth's infinite magic power He was talking about firing etherion infinite times, which had the potential to destroy a country. This is an anti-statement that it will unleash infinite magic power at once. And you need to provide concrete evidence on this statement. If you have it, don't wait, open a CRT

What kind of anti feat is this dude?

Just as the name suggests, it's eternal. Limitless.

A source of magic that will never run dry.

 

[Chardee.wl]

zeref is never a bloodthirsty person, on the contrary, according to his nature, his characteristics are quite calm

This is what I advocate anyway...

 

[Spectra_Schiffer]

That's what's wrong anyway. If Zeref had been bloodthirsty as you said, he would have passed through the gate and won, and Natsu would have vanished like the universe.

So what does this have to do with the topic... This is a discussion about Zeref's stats

"Anyone who reads the manga will understand this" is an indirect misconception.

as I said, I just used the statement to emphasize that the argument is bad, I already answered this above

It's funny that you still can't answer what I said and make statements without evidence.

Everything I said is accepted on this site and it's very simple things.

No, not everyone with infinite energy has to be high 3a. What I am trying to explain is that Zeref has infinite power output, that's why he is high 3a.

So what is the proof that it has infinite output?

 

[Chardee.wl]

So what does this have to do with the topic... This is a discussion about Zeref's stats

Because you argued that Zeref was bloodthirsty. On the contrary, I argue that Zeref was happy to die and was not bloodthirsty, which is why he did not go through the door.

Everything I said is accepted on this site and it's very simple things.

This is what I'm against

So what is the proof that it has infinite output?

 

[CloverDragon03]

Because you argued that Zeref was bloodthirsty. On the contrary, I argue that Zeref was happy to die and was not bloodthirsty, which is why he did not go through the door.

Still not the case btw, he just wanted to settle things with Natsu. He'd literally given up on dying to begin with (and as they fought, before the final clash, he was emphasizing to Natsu the world he wanted to create via Neo Eclipse). If he hadn't given up on that, he would've listened to Mavis instead of absorbing Fairy Heart from her. It's not until after the fight and his final interaction with Mavis that he embraces the idea of dying again, since Mavis was able to kill him.

So no, he wasn't holding back, or anything like that. On the contrary, he had every intention to put an end to the fight and see his plan through.

 

[Valeska24]

What kind of anti feat is this dude?

Just as the name suggests, it's eternal. Limitless.

A source of magic that will never run dry.

Shit wtf are u talking about right now

The main point here is that Mavis has a magic power that can fire etherion forever, which can destroy a country when she talks about fairy hearth, and when she talks about etherion, she uses the expression that is powerful enough to destroy a country, and you suggest that you can use this infinite magic power as AP in one go, this completely contradicts what Mavis said, because as I said, the infinite magic power here is not that it can release it in one go, but that it can release AP of a certain power forever.

 

[Alsotime]

I've literally seen claims that Base Zeref is superior to Post-SBT Acnologia here as well, it's hilarious

They absolutely lost me with that.

Acnologia is stronger than Zeref, like point blank period.

Ravine Acnologia is > Fairy Heart Zeref and Base Acnologia is > Base Zeref, it just is what it is.

Selena = Pre SBT Acno >∞ Base Zeref

Yes Selene scales in power to Acnologia and like that’s fine because in pure power Zeref doesn’t scale that far behind either, my problem with saying the dragon gods beat Zeref is because the only reason Acnologia stomps on him so bad in both scenarios is the absolute lack of effect magic has on him in the verse.

No dragon god has that sheer resistance, because that’s something inherent to Acnologia specifically. We literally see on screen Zeref’s default death magic, begin to kill Aldoron. We also see Selene get enchanted by Irene.

It doesn’t help Selene’s part at all either since she’s far far weaker in her human form then she is in her dragon one and Zeref can just force her to stay in it during the entire battle.

Even if you reread his fight with Natsu, we know that a part of him absolutely did want to lose.

& that two the Natsu that beat him is unquantifiably amped by his emotions to the point that he was literally burning his own soul and existence, so we can’t even really use him losing to that as a basis for the dragon gods being able to stomp him because they never faced a Natsu fueling his power with his existence and at the peak of his emotional ampage.

 

[DragonKing400]

the only person in the universe with infinite magic power is zeref (as far as we can see) what I'm talking about is that if you attack with magic, you attack directly with all of your magic power, which gives zeref infinite power output

LOL I'm talking about the same thing. Just because you have infinite magic power doesn't mean you have infinite outlets of magic power. It only means that your stamina is infinite.

 

[Zeinx1]

Zeref wanted to settle things with Natsu. That doesn't mean he didn't go through because he wanted to die. He'd literally given up on the idea of dying

Zeref had two goals, one of which he had to fulfil.

1-To be able to destroy yourself
2- The world

Zeref achieved 1 thanks to the natsu, and he could have done 2 by going straight through the neo eclipse door if he wanted to, but he didn't.



Look, zeref doesn't have to fight with natsu here, he can go through the door directly if he wants, but he didn't.

Or he could even use Dark Cage to stop Natsu and then pass through, but he didn't even try something like that because the character really wanted to die.

 

[CloverDragon03]

They absolutely lost me with that.

Acnologia is stronger than Zeref, like point blank period.

Ravine Acnologia is > Fairy Heart Zeref and Base Acnologia is > Base Zeref, it just is what it is.

Literally. This shouldn't even be a discussion

 

[Zeinx1]

LOL I'm talking about the same thing. Just because you have infinite magic power doesn't mean you have infinite outlets of magic power. It only means that your stamina is infinite.

Someone with infinite magic power doesn't have infinite durability lil bro just because zeref won from there (fh) doesn't mean everyone will win from there.

Also, infinite magic power output is something that can be interpreted, even if we assume that zeref is an infinite source of magic power and zeref is a little bit like a charm from here, it is still infinite anyway.

Even 0.0001 per cent of infinite is considered infinite.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Zeref had two goals, one of which he had to fulfil.

1-To be able to destroy yourself
2- The world

Zeref achieved 1 thanks to the natsu, and he could have done 2 by going straight through the neo eclipse door if he wanted to, but he didn't.



Look, zeref doesn't have to fight with natsu here, he can go through the door directly if he wants, but he didn't.

Or he could even use Dark Cage to stop Natsu and then pass through, but he didn't even try something like that because the character really wanted to die.

Again, he simply wanted to settle things with Natsu. He'd given up on dying the moment Natsu didn't kill him in their first fight in the Alvarez Arc. Stop ignoring the story itself just because you want to push an agenda

 

[Zeinx1]

Again, he simply wanted to settle things with Natsu. He'd given up on dying the moment Natsu didn't kill him in their first fight in the Alvarez Arc. Stop ignoring the story itself just because you want to push an agenda

This is something that happens with Plot armour (because there was no reason for Zeref not to pass through that door, and if he had passed through it, it would have completely ruined this friendship series) anyway, it is completely absurd that Zeref does not pass through that door, or as I said, it is completely illogical that he wants to clash forces without using an attack.

Zeref had already solved things with Natsu, and it is nonsense to continue this situation again after killing him or killing him in the war in the guild.

There are 2 answers to this, zeref lost on purpose or mashima not wanting to break the friendship series

 

[DragonKing400]

Yes Selene scales in power to Acnologia and like that’s fine because in pure power Zeref doesn’t scale that far behind either, my problem with saying the dragon gods beat Zeref is because the only reason Acnologia stomps on him so bad in both scenarios is the absolute lack of effect magic has on him in the verse.

It is illogical to attribute Acnologia's power solely to the fact that magic does not work on it. You have to take into account that Elefseria is also talking about 'power' in general when he says this statement.

No dragon god has that sheer resistance, because that’s something inherent to Acnologia specifically. We literally see on screen Zeref’s default death magic, begin to kill Aldoron. We also see Selene get enchanted by Irene.

What you say is not true. Ignia, for example, can burn other magic with his flames, just like his father and Atlas Flame. Also, given that Aldoron has a vegetal form, it is normal for him to be affected by Anksehram. Selene being affected by Irene's Enchantment doesn't mean much. As you say, in human form she was weak, unprepared and unexpected.

& that two the Natsu that beat him is unquantifiably amped by his emotions to the point that he was literally burning his own soul and existence, so we can’t even really use him losing to that as a basis for the dragon gods being able to stomp him because they never faced a Natsu fueling his power with his existence and at the peak of his emotional ampage.

The fact that they did not encounter such a Natsu does not make Zeref superior. Dragon Gods also grow stronger as their emotions increase. So you think if they get emotional like Natsu, they will defeat Zeref? I don't think it's necessary to attribute this whole fight to emotions because that's just theorizing.

 

[DragonKing400]

Someone with infinite magic power doesn't have infinite durability lil bro just because zeref won from there (fh) doesn't mean everyone will win from there.

Also, infinite magic power output is something that can be interpreted, even if we assume that zeref is an infinite source of magic power and zeref is a little bit like a charm from here, it is still infinite anyway.

Even 0.0001 per cent of infinite is considered infinite.

LOL NOBODY DOESN'T EVEN DENY THAT IT IS INFINITE. I'm saying that just because it has infinite magic doesn't mean that it will produce infinite magic output/production in one go.