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Fairy Tail Hundred Year Quest Discussion Thread 9
- Thread starter DemonGodMitchAubin
- Start date
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A better OP pic would have been Jella and Erza's "bonding" time.
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- #3
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Haven't read the last 8? chapters. WTF is Larcade doing there? I get it with August, but Larcade? He got a worst treatment from Zeref than Natsu.
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- #5
Natsu's Beta Heaven, which is basically his impression of the afterlife has a version of Zeref, Mavis, August, and Larcade living happily as a family, basically in Natsu's ideal afterlife, his family is living happily, these versions of them aren't exactly the real Zeref and Mavis, their versions that exist in Natsu's Afterlife, the real Zeref and Mavis got reincarnated
Which shows that he subconsciously actually loves his brother, sister in law, and nephews, it's quite adorable
Which shows that he subconsciously actually loves his brother, sister in law, and nephews, it's quite adorable
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Isn't actual heaven, it's the life Natsu idealises for all those that died in his subconscious. He knew Lacarde considered Zeref his father and in consequence he imagined a life for Lacarde where he was actually Zeref's kid
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That... doesn't answer my question. Why would Natsu idealize Zeref in the first place? Why would he think that he deserves getting Larcade's love and company?
Does he even know about August's relationship with Zeref?
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Natsu is too much of a bleeding heart. Kinda weird that he can accurately imagine what August looked like as a kid. Did he even know he was Zeref and Mavis' son?
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Beta Heaven is basically Purgatory, it's when you're near dead, but not fully yet, it's the area you go to before your fate is decided on whether you're dead or not, It's described as the person's subconscious image of heaven
"There's a big difference between being mostly dead and all dead"
"There's a big difference between being mostly dead and all dead"
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I don't get it.
But seems to be just a plothole.
But seems to be just a plothole.
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The August thing is a plot hole; this entire sequence is just so Mashima can draw a happily ever after for all these guys.The Calaca said:
As for the Zeref and Lacarde thing; one of them is his elder brother- irrespective of how much crap he put him through no one would really want their brother suffering for eternity. Plus he knows Zeref's story so that would just make him sympathethize even more and Zeref literally brought him back from death
As for Lacarde; he met him all of once and inthat scene he's being tortured and killed in front by who he considered his own Father. Feeling sorry for him isn't hard.
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Limbo not purgatory lmao.
Also its just the kind of person Natsu is. He knows that Zeref spent 400 years suffering and whenever he found any happiness he lost it immediately. When he left the guild hall to meet up with Gray, Lucy and Happy, he had forgiven Zeref so Zeref in his Beta Heaven is what he wishes for Zeref, Mavis, Larcade etc to have. Zeref and Mavis to be with the lerson they love, Larcade (who he sees as family in a way) gets the father he wanted and August was finally recognised by his parents (no clue on how dafuq Natsu figured this shit out but who cares).
Also its just the kind of person Natsu is. He knows that Zeref spent 400 years suffering and whenever he found any happiness he lost it immediately. When he left the guild hall to meet up with Gray, Lucy and Happy, he had forgiven Zeref so Zeref in his Beta Heaven is what he wishes for Zeref, Mavis, Larcade etc to have. Zeref and Mavis to be with the lerson they love, Larcade (who he sees as family in a way) gets the father he wanted and August was finally recognised by his parents (no clue on how dafuq Natsu figured this shit out but who cares).
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@The Calaca
Are you saying Zeref doesn't deserve a happy ending, he was a victim to horrible suffering for 400+ years, Zeref became a bad person because of a curse that was corrupting his mind to be insane, Natsu cares and feels for his Brother and wants him to have a Happy Ending with Mavis and their kids because Zeref never chose this life, Natsu's basically a huge softie
As for Natsu knowing about August, it's likely just a plothole, or maybe he knew by smelling August in the real world, or maybe it's influenced by the real afterlife, like the afterlife is telling Natsu that August is their kid, it's weird, but not really a big deal since I got to see the Full Dragneel Family being Happy, which is enough for me
Are you saying Zeref doesn't deserve a happy ending, he was a victim to horrible suffering for 400+ years, Zeref became a bad person because of a curse that was corrupting his mind to be insane, Natsu cares and feels for his Brother and wants him to have a Happy Ending with Mavis and their kids because Zeref never chose this life, Natsu's basically a huge softie
As for Natsu knowing about August, it's likely just a plothole, or maybe he knew by smelling August in the real world, or maybe it's influenced by the real afterlife, like the afterlife is telling Natsu that August is their kid, it's weird, but not really a big deal since I got to see the Full Dragneel Family being Happy, which is enough for me
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I get about Larcade, but I still don't buy that Natsu could spare Zeref. It feels anti-natural.
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Zeref was the only reasonable person in the manga. He was the only one who was trying to do something good with common sense, actually. I relate to Zeref and I hate how Mashima didn't do shit with the moral contrast between them. So no, I think he deserves a good ending. I just don't think that Natsu'd think so since there's not a reason for him to relate to his brother at the final fight.
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@Calaca I disagree, Natsu is borderline obsessed with the idea of friendship and family. He's allied himself with just about everyone he's ever had to take down at some point, plus Zeref is his elder brother, he objectively has one of the worst circumstances in the entire series and things never got better for him. And Natsu owes just as much to Zeref, as he has reason to hate him.
Zeref literally brought him back to life, introduced him to Igneel, had a hand in forming fairy tail, you could argue his relationship with Anna also facilitated Lucy (one of Natsu's best friends) joining FT and al around gave Natsu the life he currently has.
Zeref literally brought him back to life, introduced him to Igneel, had a hand in forming fairy tail, you could argue his relationship with Anna also facilitated Lucy (one of Natsu's best friends) joining FT and al around gave Natsu the life he currently has.
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@Calaca and while I can accept the argument that Zeref wanted to do good, the harm he caused was arguably worse (the ends don't justify the means) he was ready to basically commit genocide because life sucked for him and he was scared of Acnologia- whether or not the planet as a whole benefited his actual reasons were selfish
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>Natsu is borderline obsessed with the idea of friendship and family
That's Shiki
Fair, I guess. I still see it weird, tho.
Fair, I guess. I still see it weird, tho.
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- #20
@The Calaca
Natsu just subconsciously loves his brother, he'd just never admit it, he actually did feel bad for him, and it likely started when he first acknowledged him and called him his Big Bro, even his goodbye with him had no malace in it, it was a caring goodbye, Natsu even feels bad for Acnologia apparently and it's stated there's a chance Acnologia is happy in Natsu's Beta Heaven
Natsu secretly is caring for his Brother and actually saw how much he was suffering and does actually forgive him and wishes he got a happy ending, meaning that Natsu is actually a really kind individual who forgave Zeref
Natsu just subconsciously loves his brother, he'd just never admit it, he actually did feel bad for him, and it likely started when he first acknowledged him and called him his Big Bro, even his goodbye with him had no malace in it, it was a caring goodbye, Natsu even feels bad for Acnologia apparently and it's stated there's a chance Acnologia is happy in Natsu's Beta Heaven
Natsu secretly is caring for his Brother and actually saw how much he was suffering and does actually forgive him and wishes he got a happy ending, meaning that Natsu is actually a really kind individual who forgave Zeref
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The Calaca said:
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He forgave him, that's nice. Stupid, but nice.
@David He wanted to restart the world. Nothing would have happened and he'd stop the war before it could go south and before Acno becomes Acno. This isn't your Thanos genocide type of plan. He's actually starting again, preventing the previous deaths, genocides and suffering that even he caused. He's basically doing bad things to revert them in the end.
Zeref was the true hero, and the ignorance of everyone else is just insulting.
@David He wanted to restart the world. Nothing would have happened and he'd stop the war before it could go south and before Acno becomes Acno. This isn't your Thanos genocide type of plan. He's actually starting again, preventing the previous deaths, genocides and suffering that even he caused. He's basically doing bad things to revert them in the end.
Zeref was the true hero, and the ignorance of everyone else is just insulting.
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Shiki's a lot less rude and is way more kind and happy, also he doesn't seem to have an interest in fighting and getting stronger, it's just a thing he happens to be good at
Shiki is like a Cinnamon Roll while Natsu is a Tsundere Hothead
They're very similar but they are fundamentally different if you look at them
Shiki is like a Cinnamon Roll while Natsu is a Tsundere Hothead
They're very similar but they are fundamentally different if you look at them
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Again I disagree, so Zeref erases the world as it is it still amounts to genocide because ppl who were alive and existed now don't.
Natsu weirdly enough highlights this (in a far more simplistic way mind you) he says something along the line of "ppl who exist now are doing what they can to live"-paraphrasing. Zeref by changing reality, would have ultimately destroyed lives that exist in the now and prevented lives from ever existing at all. Makarov would likely never be born because FT would never be formed because Mavis wouldn't learn magic from Zeref, this means Mirajane and her family would just be ostracised for forever because there was no real guild to take them in. Remember all the current good guildmasters all originated from FT.
And that's just off the top of my head, in refusing to acknowledge and face his life as it is Zeref was just going to cause others to suffer.
Natsu weirdly enough highlights this (in a far more simplistic way mind you) he says something along the line of "ppl who exist now are doing what they can to live"-paraphrasing. Zeref by changing reality, would have ultimately destroyed lives that exist in the now and prevented lives from ever existing at all. Makarov would likely never be born because FT would never be formed because Mavis wouldn't learn magic from Zeref, this means Mirajane and her family would just be ostracised for forever because there was no real guild to take them in. Remember all the current good guildmasters all originated from FT.
And that's just off the top of my head, in refusing to acknowledge and face his life as it is Zeref was just going to cause others to suffer.
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- #26
@The Calaca
Zeref's intentions were very good, but Natsu's entire life and friendhsip with all of Fairy Tail would have been erased along with everything they've all been through making their entire lives meaningless
Also is Resetting the world when things are bad really the solution, I'll acknowledge Zeref had the best intentions in mind, but whether that's a good solution for entire cast is ehhhhhhhhh, I'll just say it's Thanos-Like
Zeref's intentions were very good, but Natsu's entire life and friendhsip with all of Fairy Tail would have been erased along with everything they've all been through making their entire lives meaningless
Also is Resetting the world when things are bad really the solution, I'll acknowledge Zeref had the best intentions in mind, but whether that's a good solution for entire cast is ehhhhhhhhh, I'll just say it's Thanos-Like
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Also, something to keep in mind. Acno was literally a deterrent to everything else in the world, the dragon civil war would have continued on for longer than it did, resulting in increased casualties that would just keep rising but he ended it quickly, the dragon gods are literally in hiding because of Acno etc.
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Using a few cases of unfair life that got good because of FT is pulling straws.
I quote "what about the reality where Germany cured cancer?" People will suffer regardless of what world they live in.
Life is random and cruel. Zeref's solution was the most plausible one since out there was a basically indestructible flying lizard who nukes islands and resists every weapon in existence. If it weren't by Plot Armor, they would be dead at this point.
I quote "what about the reality where Germany cured cancer?" People will suffer regardless of what world they live in.
Life is random and cruel. Zeref's solution was the most plausible one since out there was a basically indestructible flying lizard who nukes islands and resists every weapon in existence. If it weren't by Plot Armor, they would be dead at this point.
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Although the only truly dickish Dragon God we've seen is Ignia tbh. Merc amd Aldoron are rather peaceful.
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The Dragon Civil War and the creation of Dragon Slayer Magic are the sources of the conflict for the entire story
Acnologia and Zeref situation's both were caused by Dragons destroying things important to them, and because of that, they both ended up doing Great and Awful things and both characters are the Impetus for literally everything else in the series
So Dragons are actually at fault for everything that came to pass
Acnologia and Zeref situation's both were caused by Dragons destroying things important to them, and because of that, they both ended up doing Great and Awful things and both characters are the Impetus for literally everything else in the series
So Dragons are actually at fault for everything that came to pass
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Well disregarding plot armor as it is logical, it is not that simple, the new reality that would be created would not be the reality that we come to know as the current one would no longer exist., even if we go by causal loop, there would be no world to speak of as there would be no means to make the new world
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Honestly, knowing us as race, I bet that if we go back further from what we know, mankind must have the fault for doing some bad shit.
Every history book is basically that.
Every history book is basically that.
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If people would suffer irrespective of what reality that exists then what's the point of changing it at all? Look at it this way, yes Acno wouldn't exist but that just means the war between the dragons wouldn't end, dragons live for just about forever and we see what happens when 4 are giving 400 years to be left on their own.
Now imagine an entire race that can live for potentially hundreds of years in constant conflict, they would all be forced to grow even more powerful to remain relevant. Now u don't have 1 ungodly flying lizard that can obliterate everything but still tends to keep to itself, now you have an entire species of not quite as powerful but still plenty dangerous flying lizards-and half of these guys see humans as less than insects.
Zeref's plan while I suppose made with some good intentions had a big hole; what comes next? Acno is dead great, but did he think about the Phoenix, the Nirvinites, the Dragon civil war? There was a lot left up to chance, you're not wrong to say that I'm simply assuming the very worst but isn't it just as bad to assume the very best, when the world isn't limited to Acno?
Now imagine an entire race that can live for potentially hundreds of years in constant conflict, they would all be forced to grow even more powerful to remain relevant. Now u don't have 1 ungodly flying lizard that can obliterate everything but still tends to keep to itself, now you have an entire species of not quite as powerful but still plenty dangerous flying lizards-and half of these guys see humans as less than insects.
Zeref's plan while I suppose made with some good intentions had a big hole; what comes next? Acno is dead great, but did he think about the Phoenix, the Nirvinites, the Dragon civil war? There was a lot left up to chance, you're not wrong to say that I'm simply assuming the very worst but isn't it just as bad to assume the very best, when the world isn't limited to Acno?
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@The Calaca
I fundamentally disagree with you that Zeref's Solution is best, you can't just reset in life, you shouldn't look backwards in fixing your problems, you should look forward, erasing the past 400 Years is not a good solution, in the end Fairy tail won and survived the story, I'm not saying that Zeref's reasoning isn't understandable, I mean it makes sense that someone who lost everything would want to start over at the beginning, but as Natsu said, that's selfish, everything that happened in Fairy Tail is possible because of the struggles of the main cast, erasing that is not good, it's because of History that we are, where are now, everything everyone cherishes in the present is because of all the struggles
If not for the History that has been formed, Natsu would never join Fairy Tail, because he would have long been dead and Fairy Tail also likely would have never formed
It's like in real life, I'm glad our history existed, it's because of all the struggles in the real world that I'm able to exist as I can now
I fundamentally disagree with you that Zeref's Solution is best, you can't just reset in life, you shouldn't look backwards in fixing your problems, you should look forward, erasing the past 400 Years is not a good solution, in the end Fairy tail won and survived the story, I'm not saying that Zeref's reasoning isn't understandable, I mean it makes sense that someone who lost everything would want to start over at the beginning, but as Natsu said, that's selfish, everything that happened in Fairy Tail is possible because of the struggles of the main cast, erasing that is not good, it's because of History that we are, where are now, everything everyone cherishes in the present is because of all the struggles
If not for the History that has been formed, Natsu would never join Fairy Tail, because he would have long been dead and Fairy Tail also likely would have never formed
It's like in real life, I'm glad our history existed, it's because of all the struggles in the real world that I'm able to exist as I can now
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The point was killing Acno, who was going to destroy the world as a whole. Simple as that. The Ragnarok wasn't as big as a problem as what it gave birth to.
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Everything that happened in FT is possible because of how the universe has been written in favour to the protagonists. It's Paulo Coelho's BS in a manga, which isn't how life works at all.
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I mean life doesn't also produce giant fire breathing reptiles, nor does it produce immortal edgelords
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@The Calaca It's unknown whether or not Zeref was born before or after tha Dragon Civil War, point is, even with all he knew, could he really fix everything, if you went back in time to before World War 1, do you think you could have prevented it from ever happening, even with knowing everything that happened, I don't think it's that easy, and while yes, it is fiction and a Manga, the history that happened, did happen, regardless of plot armor, that's the characters reality, so saying that what happened doesn't count is just not true, in the world that they exist in, The good guys won and the world didn't end
Overall I see that as a win
Overall I see that as a win
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