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So in following up this, I'm making this thread
As it stands right now we have the MSPA Reader's First Guardian Key as transcending the rest of the Narrator Level Characters for this reason
Which boils down to
A) The Absorption of the Green Sun
B) The prevention of the Blackout
C) Transcending his Story, which includes the FR and Earth C
This is used to put him 1 layer of transcendence above characters like Ult Dirk or Alt Calliope, which has issues
For the Green Sun feat, Alt Calliope also did that to reach her level of power, and the Reader has no extenuating circumstances that should put him an entire layer of transcendence above her for doing so.
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The prevention of the Blackout is actually more scuffed of a feat lol, the entire thing about the Blackout for those not in the know is that it's a reality-destroying event that was caused as a result of the Reader retconning John getting SBURB (and thus creating the chain of events we know as Homestuck) out of existence by taking the copy of the game from out of the mailbox on his birthday. The blackout itself is described as a multiverse-spanning event that'd turn everything to ruin in ways that had the Director and Ult Dirk concerned, and that had Aradia consider leaving canon.
This is a relatively valid feat, though a bit of context has to be added of the fact that we actually see the Beta get put into the box during the whole sequence where MSPA Reader is ascending, with thet Green Text you see actually being the Reader's own narration of events, reminiscent of a scene earlier on in the VN when Ult Dirk was speaking from outside the narrative. But the Blackout still continues on anyways, before the Reader just stops it outright, though of note, he specifically states the destruction and preservation are in reference to this timeline/story, which means in one way or another (likely the fact that the beta is back in John's mailbox), the blackout became specified to the story of Pesterquest, or that since the game went back into the box, it all became doomed/non-canon and Paradox space went to terminate the timeline.
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Finally, transcending his story, which is a true feat and does give him a layer of 1-A beyond just scaling to Alt Calliope's feat, since he transcend the Furthest Ring which is accepted to be Baseline 1-A, but the mention of Earth C is where I'm guessing the main bulk of his transcending Narrator level characters come from, because to make a long story shot for those not in the know, Earth C exists within the Black Hole shown earlier, which is the result of Alt Calliope consuming the Green Sun. The argument to my understanding, is the implication that, since Earth C exists within the context of the Story (the Reader Zapped over there using the Retcon to grab an adult copy of Dave), the Black Hole in which it is contained must also be in the Story he transcends, and since the Black Hole is the True Form (kinda, not really, it's her "Physical" true form ig?) of Alt Calliope, he must then transcend Alt Calliope.
Two main issues with this:
Firstly, the ability of the Retcon to teleport to other places is one that quite explicitly transcends the boundaries of canon and whatnot, it lets you go to anywhere, quite literally, so it's ability to let the reader go all the way to Earth C from another non-canon place isn't exactly evidence of Earth C, and especially Alt Calliope's Black Hole, being contained in the Friendism/Pesterquest Story.
Secondly, the issue of the Black Hole, while being as close to a True Form as she actually has, isn't actually her Meta-Textual Self; it's a medium through which her powers are conveyed, physical, conceptual, and metatextual, her "true form" if we want to be specific is one we haven't seen, same as with the other Narrator level characters.
Thirdly, the circular scaling, as it is right now we are arguing that the Reader's First Guardian state, which was achieved after absorbing the Green Sun, transcends the Black Hole, which also absorbed the Green Sun, so it's the Reader that transcends the power source that got them this far, which is a big no-no 1-A wise.
There's more I could say, but this should be enough, and I can grab quotes/pages for basically anything if needed, but I'd rather not grab them if they aren't.
As it stands right now we have the MSPA Reader's First Guardian Key as transcending the rest of the Narrator Level Characters for this reason
Which boils down to
A) The Absorption of the Green Sun
B) The prevention of the Blackout
C) Transcending his Story, which includes the FR and Earth C
This is used to put him 1 layer of transcendence above characters like Ult Dirk or Alt Calliope, which has issues
For the Green Sun feat, Alt Calliope also did that to reach her level of power, and the Reader has no extenuating circumstances that should put him an entire layer of transcendence above her for doing so.
-
The prevention of the Blackout is actually more scuffed of a feat lol, the entire thing about the Blackout for those not in the know is that it's a reality-destroying event that was caused as a result of the Reader retconning John getting SBURB (and thus creating the chain of events we know as Homestuck) out of existence by taking the copy of the game from out of the mailbox on his birthday. The blackout itself is described as a multiverse-spanning event that'd turn everything to ruin in ways that had the Director and Ult Dirk concerned, and that had Aradia consider leaving canon.
This is a relatively valid feat, though a bit of context has to be added of the fact that we actually see the Beta get put into the box during the whole sequence where MSPA Reader is ascending, with thet Green Text you see actually being the Reader's own narration of events, reminiscent of a scene earlier on in the VN when Ult Dirk was speaking from outside the narrative. But the Blackout still continues on anyways, before the Reader just stops it outright, though of note, he specifically states the destruction and preservation are in reference to this timeline/story, which means in one way or another (likely the fact that the beta is back in John's mailbox), the blackout became specified to the story of Pesterquest, or that since the game went back into the box, it all became doomed/non-canon and Paradox space went to terminate the timeline.
-
Finally, transcending his story, which is a true feat and does give him a layer of 1-A beyond just scaling to Alt Calliope's feat, since he transcend the Furthest Ring which is accepted to be Baseline 1-A, but the mention of Earth C is where I'm guessing the main bulk of his transcending Narrator level characters come from, because to make a long story shot for those not in the know, Earth C exists within the Black Hole shown earlier, which is the result of Alt Calliope consuming the Green Sun. The argument to my understanding, is the implication that, since Earth C exists within the context of the Story (the Reader Zapped over there using the Retcon to grab an adult copy of Dave), the Black Hole in which it is contained must also be in the Story he transcends, and since the Black Hole is the True Form (kinda, not really, it's her "Physical" true form ig?) of Alt Calliope, he must then transcend Alt Calliope.
Two main issues with this:
Firstly, the ability of the Retcon to teleport to other places is one that quite explicitly transcends the boundaries of canon and whatnot, it lets you go to anywhere, quite literally, so it's ability to let the reader go all the way to Earth C from another non-canon place isn't exactly evidence of Earth C, and especially Alt Calliope's Black Hole, being contained in the Friendism/Pesterquest Story.
Secondly, the issue of the Black Hole, while being as close to a True Form as she actually has, isn't actually her Meta-Textual Self; it's a medium through which her powers are conveyed, physical, conceptual, and metatextual, her "true form" if we want to be specific is one we haven't seen, same as with the other Narrator level characters.
Thirdly, the circular scaling, as it is right now we are arguing that the Reader's First Guardian state, which was achieved after absorbing the Green Sun, transcends the Black Hole, which also absorbed the Green Sun, so it's the Reader that transcends the power source that got them this far, which is a big no-no 1-A wise.
There's more I could say, but this should be enough, and I can grab quotes/pages for basically anything if needed, but I'd rather not grab them if they aren't.
