Flame Emperor vs Dark King

[SlendVeny]

Dragon needs allies now. The World Government is mobilizing its mightiest forces against him. He knows only one man he can contact with the power necessary to help him. He sends out Sabo to collect this man, yet Rayleigh challenges him to a fight before he can.

Old Rayleigh vs Sabo, starting distance 25 meters.

Rayleigh:

Sabo:

Incon:

 

[Kachon123]

Sabo outranges and outlasts.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Following.

 

[SlendVeny]

Sabo outranges and outlasts.

Conquere haki

 

[Greatsage13th]

Hmm

 

[SlendVeny]

Bump

 

[Eminiteable]

Rayleigh kills him with Dura neg.

 

[SlendVeny]

Rayleigh kills him with Dura neg.

Interesting. Isn't Sabo stronger? How does that factor in?

 

[DaMonkeMan]

I might be wrong but isn't Sabo ~ Issho's Haki?

 

[Kachon123]

I might be wrong but isn't Sabo ~ Issho's Haki?

Why

 

[DaMonkeMan]

They fought on and off screen for tens of minutes in Dressrosa.

 

[Kachon123]

They fought on and off screen for tens of minutes in Dressrosa.

What does that have to do with haki

 

[DaMonkeMan]

I don't know, the fact Issho would have to use Haki anyway?
Due to fighting a Logia?

 

[Kachon123]

I don't know, the fact Issho would have to use Haki anyway?
Due to fighting a Logia?

That's not enough for haki scaling.

There needs to be a haki clash.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

 

[Eminiteable]

Interesting. Isn't Sabo stronger? How does that factor in?

I'm looking at the profiles and nothing there makes Sabo stronger than Rayleigh.

 

[SlendVeny]

I'm looking at the profiles and nothing there makes Sabo stronger than Rayleigh.

Egghead revisions gonna be a whole new beast.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

LOL I'm using that phrase btw

 

[SlendVeny]

LOL I'm using that phrase btw

Agree FRA

 

[RoronoaxRobin]

Rayleigh wins FRA

 

[Darkvie123]

Rayleigh.
Better Haki Overall
Dura Neg
He relatively fought Kizaru whos slightly above Fujitora imo which Sabo stalemated and couldnt even harm while Rayleigh left a cut on Kizarus cheek and made him bleed. For now Old Rayleigh wins unless Sabo can somewhat keep himself in the battle and outlast Rayleigh via stamina. Does Ray have any Heat Resistance?

 

[Eminiteable]

Does Ray have any Heat Resistance?

Haki has heat resistance

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Rayleigh.
Better Haki Overall
Dura Neg
He relatively fought Kizaru whos slightly above Fujitora imo which Sabo stalemated and couldnt even harm while Rayleigh left a cut on Kizarus cheek and made him bleed. For now Old Rayleigh wins unless Sabo can somewhat keep himself in the battle and outlast Rayleigh via stamina. Does Ray have any Heat Resistance?

Pretty sure both Sabo and Issho came out with minor bruises.

 

[ZKillerz]

Honestly dont know so voting incon

 

[ZKillerz]

He relatively fought Kizaru whos slightly above Fujitora imo which Sabo stalemated and couldnt even harm while Rayleigh left a cut on Kizarus cheek and made him bleed. For now Old Rayleigh wins unless Sabo can somewhat keep himself in the battle and outlast Rayleigh via stamina. Does Ray have any Heat Resistance?

Its important to note that sabo matched fujitora longer than rayleigh did kizaru, its unfair to compare their performances when sabo took more damage overtime

Also besides the movement speed advantage what puts kizaru over fujitora really?

Not arguing sabo wins but I dont think there's a good enough reason to put rayleigh over him either

At the very least we cant prove rayleigh has the heat resistance to completely negate sabo's giant flame attacks so that's something sabo has going for him.

 

[ZKillerz]

Haki has heat resistance

True, but we can't determine if his Haki is good enough to completely resist Sabo's heat based attacks until we get some heat resistance feats from Rayleigh.

While I do agree that he wouldn't be burnt alive, I don't think you could argue that he would completely negate the flame damage.

 

[Eminiteable]

True, but we can't determine if his Haki is good enough to completely resist Sabo's heat based attacks until we get some heat resistance feats from Rayleigh.

While I do agree that he wouldn't be burnt alive, I don't think you could argue that he would completely negate the flame damage.

Yes we can, he's superior to BOTS Luffy's haki usage. That's more than enough to completely resist Sabo's fire manipulation.

Its important to note that sabo matched fujitora longer than rayleigh did kizaru, its unfair to compare their performances when sabo took more damage overtime

Also besides the movement speed advantage what puts kizaru over fujitora really?

Not arguing sabo wins but I dont think there's a good enough reason to put rayleigh over him either

Read the profiles:

Fought on par with Fujitora, although he claimed Fujitora was holding back.

Held Kizaru off and battled him to a near stalemate. Cut the side of Kizaru’s face with a glancing strike using his blade. Was viewed by Garp and Post-Timeskip Blackbeard as a major threat, although he admitted he couldn't defeat the latter

Sabo couldn't get past Fujitora even while he was holding back while Kizaru couldn't get past Rayleigh at all.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

BOTS Luffy couldn't stop a sharp attack, Sabo could.
Before anyone says it, yes he was using Armament here, you can see it where his glove cuts off.

 

[SlendVeny]

Yes we can, he's superior to BOTS Luffy's haki usage. That's more than enough to completely resist Sabo's fire manipulation.

Luffy had heat resistance before that.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

BOTS Luffy couldn't stop a sharp attack, Sabo could.
Before anyone says it, yes he was using Armament here, you can see it where his glove cuts off.

(Though this is more of Haki potency and not layers, but eh.)

 

[Kachon123]

BOTS Luffy couldn't stop a sharp attack, Sabo could.
Before anyone says it, yes he was using Armament here, you can see it where his glove cuts off.

I don't think grabbing a blade and breaking it is the same as stopping a piercing attack

 

[DaMonkeMan]

I don't think grabbing a blade and breaking it is the same as stopping a piercing attack

It's still an attack that'd cut off his finger if it wasn't sturdy enough.
And at the end of the day they're in the same field, and both attacks come from sharp objects.

 

[Eminiteable]

Luffy had heat resistance before that.

And? Haki still resists fire & heat, Luffy's natural resistance changes nothing when it comes to resisting Sabo's fire.

BOTS Luffy couldn't stop a sharp attack, Sabo could.
Before anyone says it, yes he was using Armament here, you can see it where his glove cuts off.

This method of scaling haki potency was removed iirc, there should have been a Sanji thread for it iirc.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

I'm pretty sure that thread was about layers or something, if it was about potency then it didn't make much sense, because Sanji should have somewhat better Haki than FMI Luffy if he could block a sharp attack with it.

 

[Kachon123]

It's still an attack that'd cut off his finger if it wasn't sturdy enough.
And at the end of the day they're in the same field, and both attacks come from sharp objects.

If he stoped the blade with a finger Aizen-style, then sure, but he literally just grabbed the part that isn't even sharp

 

[SlendVeny]

And? Haki still resists fire & heat, Luffy's natural resistance changes nothing when it comes to resisting Sabo's fire.

He isn't a good example though.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

If he stoped the blade with a finger Aizen-style, then sure, but he literally just grabbed the part that isn't even sharp

His entire hand is near/on the sharp parts of the blade.

 

[Kachon123]

No it isn't. He basically just pinched the blade with his fingers.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Look a little closer

 

[Eminiteable]

I'm pretty sure that thread was about layers or something, if it was about potency then it didn't make much sense, because Sanji should have somewhat better Haki than FMI Luffy if he could block a sharp attack with it.

Layer and potency are the same thing, it made perfect sense to remove it.

The argument is the equivalent of saying Zoro blocking east blue fodder sword attacks makes his haki more potent/layered than eos Luffy who's haki was cut through by Shanks.

He isn't a good example though.

Of what, haki resisting fire attacks? It's already an accepted thing. Draw who's Haki is less potent than Rayleigh's was unfazed by Ace's fire due to using haki.

Sabo's fire isn't effecting Rayleigh.