Flayer vs Slayer

[The_Smashor]

This probably is a terrible idea, but I'm listening to a eurobeat remix of E1M1 and nothing can stop me.

Rules: Speed Equalized. This is a Mind Flayer Ceremorph vs The Doom Slayer. Both are Low 7-B. Combatants are only five meters apart. Otherwise SBA.



Doom Slayer:
Mind Flayer: 1 (Mr. Bambu)

Inconclusive:

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

DND character vs non-DND character that is neither high smurf or something similar. This omegastop

 

[The_Smashor]

Mind Flayers arn't that bad from what I see from the stats and P&A

 

[Mr. Bambu]

DND character vs non-DND character that is neither high smurf or something similar. This omegastop </div>

I just wanna say that the Mind Flayer isn't a smurf by default.

I then wanna say that Doomguy is unironically one of my favorite characters of all time.

With both of those things said, which Low 7-B Mind Flayer key are we using? If we're using Ceremorphs, then Doom Slayer has a decent enough chance. I think the Sorcerer just points and wins, but the Ceremorphs might have an actual chance.

 

[The_Smashor]

Oh, in that case I'll change it to ceremorph.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Aight. So for the purpose of this, I'll be assuming a Urophio is the ceremorph in question, since that's the first Low 7-B one that comes to mind.

The main forms of attack are tendrils, which are used to try to grapple the target and excavate their brain cavity, and mind blast, which deals pretty absurd psychic damage and leaves a target stunned for the foreseeable future. It also has extremely potent mindhax but the actual usage of that mindhax is limited (should be considered roughly the population of a country in potency, via scaling to Strahd, but it can only be used to give suggestions on actions, not outright control).

Doomguy has vastly better LS (Class M) and should be able to tear the Urophion a new hole if they try to grapple. The issue, then, comes in with mind blasting him, for the most part. That is not an issue, though, when one considers the range advantage of Doomguy- at worst the guy is hundreds of meters away with standard weapons. Being fair, that range advantage is wasted on him, since he'll just immediately begin charging, but while he's charging he's still unloading an arsenal equivalent to a smaller country on the Urophion.

Based on all this, I do believe Doomguy could take him out by right of blasting him to kingdom come with range advantage, while all Urophion can do is use lower end mind fuckery to get him to do stuff. Suggestion ain't incap, just temporary fixes.

 

[The_Smashor]

Doomguy's weapons are way below his physical AP. He probably just says "no" to lower end mindhax, as well, since he resists Type 2 Madness Manipulation. Type 2 Madness Manipulation is literally mindhax.

 

[Keeweed]

Wait does any of the Doomguy's weapons scale to the low 7-B key? I thought his best weapon was 8-B and he just punched everything that was low 7-B to death, so that range advances seems pretty pointless when it comes from 9-B to 9-A weapons.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Doomguy's weapons are way below his physical AP. He probably just says "no" to lower end mindhax, as well, since he resists Type 2 Madness Manipulation. Type 2 Madness Manipulation is literally mindhax.

are we still doing the thing where we insist he uses weapons way weaker than him? lame

I mean. On what scale does the mindhax work? I don't remember Doomguy ever being affronted with mindhax that affected a country all at once, but I could be misremembering.

Okay, well, that does complicate things a bit. He could get into a boxing match with it, but the issue with this is that if he gets anywhere near melee range (tens of meters) he'll start getting psychic blasted. Not exactly mindhax so much as mental AP that also ***** up your brain, preventing you from moving.

 

[The_Smashor]

INB4 he resists universal mindhax in DOOM eternal

 

[Mr. Bambu]

INB4 he resists universal mindhax in DOOM eternal

If Doom Eternal makes him tier 6 he can fight some of the lower-end Epic Level creatures with that universal resistance

Still, if that's the case and his weapons do zero things for him, then I would vote Urophion by right of tanking everything else and then just bludgeoning him to death after psychic blast.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

The BFG relies on heating (and vaporizing) the fat and other liquids in an enemy to kill them, this obviously working on demons that can survive the lava and all that.

I'm guessing the flyer resists heat above that?

 

[Overlord775]

Why aren't Slayer's weapons scaled to him ?

Why would the guy run around with what are effectivelly pellet guns from his perpective ?

 

[The_Smashor]

It's implied that Doom Slayer is the same Doonguy from the first two games and Doom 64. He probably has an emotional attachment to those weapons at this point

 

[Overlord775]

Didn't he lose those weapons before the eons of fighting in hell ? Wouldn't he have forgotten how to even use them ?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

The BFG relies on heating (and vaporizing) the fat and other liquids in an enemy to kill them, this obviously working on demons that can survive the lava and all that.
I'm guessing the flyer resists heat above that?

heat resist doesn't really work 1:1 like that in D&D. heat is just raw damage. but yeah, you can survive stuff well beyond lava.

 

[00potato]

But does it damage you?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

But does it damage you?

Like I said, it is damage. Normal fire will still harm the guy that just survived dipping into lava for a few seconds. So yes. It damages you. But if you're asking if you can survive stronger heat sources than normal lava, then yes.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

heat resist doesn't really work 1:1 like that in D&D. heat is just raw damage. but yeah, you can survive stuff well beyond lava.

Game mechanics reeeeeee. But regardles, we aren't talking about lava tough.

We are talking about stuff that vaporizes peeps that can take lava.

 

[Keeweed]

Why aren't Slayer's weapons scaled to him ?

Why would the guy run around with what are effectivelly pellet guns from his perpective ?

Samuel Hayden (DOOM) constantly states that he is nothing compared to the Doom Guy and that he would get demolished if they fought, yet the Doom Guy's guns do literally nothing to him and he considers it a waste of ammo. Also the BFG is superior to all the Doom Guy's other weapons and it is 8-B so there are two reasons why his guns don't scale to him physically.

@Ricsi In DnD you can burn people to death that are made of lava (you need a certain feat to do it though). The ceremorph can survive that fire just fine. Also other 8-B bosses in Doom can survive multiple shots from the BFG and only died with it was shoved down their throat after they were on the ground dying.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Game mechanics reeeeeee. But regardles, we aren't talking about lava tough.
	~ You​

Well yeah. You're asking me a game that explains itself in game mechanics. But in terms of the game world, yes, characters can survive stuff hotter than lava. To be clear, I'm saying this as a supporter of both, even made the DOOM verse page. I'm aware of what the DOOM gun does, I just don't think it'll outright vaporize.

Also yeah Keeweed is correct, you can in fact get fire hot enough to kill fire with fire. Not sure how much of that is the game mechanics you ever so despise, but it is 100% legit.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Yeah, that was (mostly) a joke, I'm awere games are like that.

But then, the BFG should still work? Obviously it won't oneshot, but four hits with it could hurt real bad, assuming Doom Slayer actually uses it as a first move.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Right

I mean sure, they'll feel heat, I just don't think it will viably kill. To be clear- lava is 2200 F, right? The BFG is an unknown amount of heat hotter than that. A level 1 spell, as in castable by base level characters, called Searing Smite causes metal to heat to white-hot temperatures. That would deal like 1d6 (as in, anywhere from 1 to 6 points of damage). White-hot metal is about 2190 F.

So based on that and dozens of times hotter flames existing, I don't think the BFG is a good solution to this.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

I feel like vaporizing people that can take a swim in lava is waaaay more than a few dozens times hotter. Not saying it'd one-shot or anything, but that is certainly selling it short.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I feel like vaporizing people that can take a swim in lava is waaaay more than a few dozens times hotter. Not saying it'd one-shot or anything, but that is certainly selling it short.

Sure, but that's still unquantifiably higher.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

I mean, didn't the plasma rifle have an upgrade that made it breach the "Fahrenheit limit" or something?

I know it also made Birkeland currents through sheer heat, whatever that'd quantify as.

 

[00potato]

Yeah unquantifiable but definitely far higher as it absolutely deletes people who tank lava. It should have a good chance at turning the illithid into a killedithid.

 

[00potato]

Samuel Hayden (DOOM) constantly states that he is nothing compared to the Doom Guy and that he would get demolished if they fought, yet the Doom Guy's guns do literally nothing to him and he considers it a waste of ammo. Also the BFG is superior to all the Doom Guy's other weapons and it is 8-B so there are two reasons why his guns don't scale to him physically.

@Ricsi In DnD you can burn people to death that are made of lava (you need a certain feat to do it though). The ceremorph can survive that fire just fine. Also other 8-B bosses in Doom can survive multiple shots from the BFG and only died with it was shoved down their throat after they were on the ground dying.

Wouldn't that just mean that the bosses would scale to the Doonslayer just like the weapons?

Also the argument saying that it shouldn't scale because his BFG is 8-B is nonsense because that entire point is to prove the opposite. That is essentially saying something isn't true because "it just is."

 

[Keeweed]

The BFG was calculated at 8-B, "it just is" because it actually has a feat. A feat which resulted in 8-B results.

The Doomslayer killed something stronger than every other demon so they have a reason not to scale.

Also Samuel repeatedly says that Doomguy would slaughter him in a fight yet the Doom Guy shooting at Samuel did nothing. His weapons don't scale to him physically because a character that can tank his weapons says that they would get destroyed by the Doom Guy.

 

[00potato]

Yeah but having an 8-B feat doesn't mean your 8-B if you have higher scaling.

Did the Doomslayer not use any weapons when slaying the demon?

Also when does Sam tank the shots? It could just be a game mechanic like how some NPC's in games are invincible.

Also why does the Doomguy carry them around if they are like Nerf guns to him. That is illogical.

 

[Keeweed]

Samuel comments on it and says not to waste ammo, 5 seconds earlier he put a device that restricted the Doom Guy from punching him because that would kill him.

It's not illogical when it comes to the Doomguy's character. He hates Demons with a passion and enjoys to destroy things so using weapons that doesn't instantly obliterate the thing he is trying to screw with makes sense.

Also the BFG was stated to be better than all the Doomguy's weapons and beings that are inferior to the Titan can survive hits from the BFG while the Doom Guy killed the Titan bared handed.

Edit: a lot of the weapons the Doom Slayer has aren't his own. Most the guns he randomly found on the ground and you get the plasma gun from a random guard in Doom Eternal so it being low 7-B or 7-C wouldn't make since.