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Freddy Krueger vs. Sans

Without prior knowledge and being in character, Krueger is likely to not go all out and briefly toy with Sans like he does with nearly every single one of his victims, which he will end up regretting.
 
I'm giving this one to sans as karmic retribution combined with san's greater intelligence and unorthodox attack patterns would be really affective against Krueger. Add this to the fact that freddy has only ever faced one other supernatural entity who was nothing like sans and I can safely say that Krueger is gonna have a bad time.
 
Krueger should be able to win if this is in the dream world, Karmic retribution isn't instant death and after getting a taste of it he'll likely fight using dream manipulation rather than staying vulnerable out in the open.
 
It isn't just KR, there's soul damage as well, and Krueger doesn't normally go all out and toys with his victims, he's likely to die since Sans is always going straight for the kill.
 
KR won't flat out destroy his soul in one hit either, it'll certainly be badly damaged but if Freddy takes it serious and backs off away from the bones after that first hit he still should be able to win this. As long as Sans remembers him Freddy can come back and he might possibly be able to throw in time manipulation to further add to his advantages. In short I don't believe Sans can put Krueger down before reality warping becomes a serious issue, he's smart but he can't effectively counter.
 
Cohobast said:
KR won't flat out destroy his soul in one hit either, it'll certainly be badly damaged but if Freddy takes it serious and backs off away from the bones after that first hit he still should be able to win this. As long as Sans remembers him Freddy can come back and he might possibly be able to throw in time manipulation to further add to his advantages. In short I don't believe Sans can put Krueger down before reality warping becomes a serious issue, he's smart but he can't effectively counter.
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Correct me if I'm wrong but don't you have to be afraid of Freddy for him to come back? Also san's main tactic is to overwhelm his opponent as quickly has possible and given how eratic san's attack patern is he might be able to do just that.
 
You're right, my knowledge of Freddy is a bit rusty but fear does seem to be required for him to come back in addition to remembering. Still if he does have complete control in the dreamworld I think it would be difficult for him to lose if he realized what a threat sans posed to him especially if he went for reality warping or soul absorption. On the subject of fear and belief it might be good to know if in this fight there are people who fear and believe in him other than san's since some of his power seems to rely on how much people fear him.
 
The thing is Freddy can abuse meta powers in the dream world. A guy in the dream world dreamed that he had guns so he could combat Freddy and so guns appeared in his hand. Freddy proceeded to become a typical bulletproof superhero, faster than a speeding blah blah blah etc that walked out of a comic and beat him. I say Freddy wins even when trolling. He might even invent a reverse karmic retribution thing for all we know. Sans doesn't have any special high level metaphysical hax or conceptual powers.
 
Not sure if Metaphysical or conceptual hax is a thing, as it's not in his profile.

Also guns =/= Karmic Retribution, not sure if Freddy can just casually get around that, especially if he doesn't know how it works.

Anynway,

Freddy: 2

Sans: 2

Anyone else?
 
Guns shouldn't be any different from KR in the dreamworld since Freddy's reality warping seems able to change the basic logic and laws that govern dreamspace.
 
KR was able to affect and kill a being that was Mulitversal and had a power to alter time and space at will (Chara).

While I don't doubt Freddy CAN do so, it's not going to be easy to shut off automatically, especially since this is no prior knowledge, he wouldn't know about KR, and it's not like Sans will tell Freddy about it either.

Not to mention, Freddy rarely fights people with potent hax, and Sans hax is definitely going to throw Freddy thorugh a loop.
 
First of all Sans' KR wasn't able to kill Chara, just delay them and they weren't even Chara at that point yet. Also they only really had the ability to go back to a certain point in time, which isn't exactly altering time at will. He wouldn't know about KR at first but he can probably figure out that those bones are something he has to get rid of and since KR isnt a one hit kill his reality warping and durability manipulation should take care of that. Nothing stopping him changing the rules to give himself Soul protection if the dreamworld runs on his rules and logic
 
Um, yes, they were Chara at that point in the Genocide Run, they were just limited to a physical body (Frisk's body), doesn't change the fact they were still 2-B at the time.

Determination allows them to revive themselves after their SOUL was destoryed, increase their stats, and restart and erase timelines via the SAVE and LOAD function. Even if limited to a physical body, it's still a potent hax.

Doesn't change the fact Chara died several times fighting Sans and couldn't stop KR's effect from working, they could only dodge and hold on until Sans tired out.

Also, their SOUL was destroyed every time, the reason Chara didn't die was because of their Determination, Freddy doesn't have anything that can bring him back if his soul is destroyed (at least under his own power).

Note that it takes several seconds to kill Chara if the attack stays in contact, and the fact it makes you feel all the pain you've inflicted onto others as well. Freddy would not shrug that off instantly and make resistances after, he would need to recover first from the damage, something Sans would not let him do as he typically bombards his opponents with unrelenting attacks.

I never said Freddy couldn't, but he has to do it fast otherwise he'd die in a few seconds.

There's also his Teleportation and Soul Manipulation as well, which are equally as potent as KR.
 
Personally I don't believe Chara was 2b until they took control in the throne room but that's just my interpretation of the genocide route. Determination doesn't raise stats, LV and EXP do, sure Determination can regen but the person san's fought lacked that ability, only having access to SAVE and LOAD which allowed them to retry as much as they wanted. they lacked the ability to destroy timelines at the time of the sans fight. I would say that Sans never fought Chara, just the level 19 frisk controlled by the player.

It takes seconds to kill, not an instant and in that time Freddy can use his complete control over the dreamworld to change the rules. I don't think Sans will be able to rush him before he's outhaxed

Edit. Freddy also has Soul Manipulation, telekenesis of a simmilar nature to Sans in addition to intangibility and invisibility
 
Eh, Chara's 2-B on their profile, even in their physical form, which is why Sans is a Top Tier in UT via KR. This was explained already by Azathoth. But to each their own I guess.

Determination DOES raise stats, unless EVERYONE in Undertale scales from Frisk fighting against Asriel (Who had Infinite ATK and DEF). And believe me, they don't.

LV 19 Frisk IS Chara already. Chara has complete control by then and only the Player can decide whether or not to stop the Genocide Route. It's Chara powered BY the Player that allows them to control Frisk.

They were near their absolute at the time (LV 20 being their peak), so they would still be in the range of 2-B regardless, this was again, explained in a past thread and is even in the UT page.

I know, I said that. However, Sans is faster and has things like Soul Manipulation to ragdoll Freddy or Teleportation to put him into another set of attacks. Also, like I said, Freddy ain't shrugging off KR if it hits him, it will hurt A LOT.

I think Freddy can give himself resistance, but not outright immunity to KR.

Here's an in depth explanation on the Undertale Tiers .
 
Sans for sure. Sans will obviously be dealing full damage out put because of Karma retribution. He has varous manipulation powers. be it teleporting, an awarness of the time line Soul manipulation which is his main for of direct attack. Not to mention how easily he keeps a cool head. Sans fought chara. some one with the power to wipe out an entire timeline (granted he killed sand and asgore) and he stayed calm through out it.

Freddy has the dream world here. but sans ignores any durability you could put on your self. and hits directly in the soul. with KR. something freddy won't be able to widthstand. plus. massive speed advantage for sans.
 
I appreciate the link, i've read through it but respectfully I hold to my opinion despite the well worded blog post, call me stubborn if you want. This isn't really even about Chara/Frisk or even Determination in the end. Sans is outclassed. Freddy is unknown in most of his stats, we can't just say sans is faster than him, especially considering that this is Freddy's world, a place he has absolute power in. Sans doesnt have a good answer to time manipulation and as I've mentioned earlier Freddy is able to change how things work. Sans is powerful yet but he cant one shot and that first attack will give Freddy all he needs to destroy him. Sans also is at a huge disadvantage since he wouldnt automatically know this is a dream.
 
Cohobast said:
I appreciate the link, i've read through it but respectfully I hold to my opinion despite the well worded blog post, call me stubborn if you want. This isn't really even about Chara/Frisk or even Determination in the end. Sans is outclassed. Freddy is unknown in most of his stats, we can't just say sans is faster than him, especially considering that this is Freddy's world, a place he has absolute power in. Sans doesnt have a good answer to time manipulation and as I've mentioned earlier Freddy is able to change how things work. Sans is powerful yet but he cant one shot and that first attack will give Freddy all he needs to destroy him. Sans also is at a huge disadvantage since he wouldnt automatically know this is a dream.
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For the most part. you are right. but you've forgotten one thing... Sans' soul manipulation powers. he has a direct form of attack he can use against freddy, one that can kill chara in seconds (if it hits) who him self is at least universal level
 
Alright, though we already accepted this as a rule already and it's official.

To be fair, Unknown could mean Freddy is either around, lower or higher than Sans in certain stats. Not to mention Sans is Unknown in several stats (especially Speed), so the same can be applied to him.

The thing is not if Freddy can kill Sans (which he can certainly do), it's he can realize how much a threat Sans is in time and if he can survive an onslaught from him from his attacks (Teleporation, Soul Manipulation, KR), which you believe he can, and I respect that opinion, as this fight can both either way.

While not saying he can know it's a dream instantly, Sans is intelligent and know something is up as he is in a different environment. He's also very fast and hard to hit.
 
Sans Kr will destroy his soul in a few seconds (max 1 or 2) looking that lv depends on how violent is the death of somone you kill
 
Krueger's "absolute power", has trouble against teenagers and couldn't successfully put down Jason.

As I've said before, what makes you think Freddy can just manipulate abilities he has no knowledge of? If something in the dream world could possibly hurt him, wouldn't he attempt to make that null? If so, why didn't he just make himself impenetrable to Jason's machete and only regenerated just to get a laugh in? Krueger can't possibly negate everything, and he's prone to letting the attacker use their abilities on him before attacking himself, because he believes nothing can be done to him.
 
Talonmask said:
Krueger's "absolute power", has trouble against teenagers and couldn't successfully put down Jason.
As I've said before, what makes you think Freddy can just manipulate abilities he has no knowledge of? If something in the dream world could possibly hurt him, wouldn't he attempt to make that null? If so, why didn't he just make himself impenetrable to Jason's machete and only regenerated just to get a laugh in? Krueger can't possibly negate everything, and he's prone to letting the attacker use their abilities on him before attacking himself, because he believes nothing can be done to him.
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Couldn't agree more. and that combined with his soul manipulation powers and the shere power he has in the first place would make this a very quick fight.
 
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