Freezing and Temperature Feats Continued Again

[Jaakubb]

Yeah it is. The flawed calcing method is using an explosion calculator on something that isn't even a proper explosion. I'm saying that it's flawed to call that airplane "explosion" 8-A. It's not. It's way under 8-A.

 

[KLOL506]

Again, it would only be a proper explosion if it shows signs of overpressure, an airplane crash IRL is not really a explosion but just fuel violently combusting and really doesn't show signs of a pressure that you'd recieve from the shockwave of an actual explosion. It's that simple. It's why we don't assume energy density or the explosion radius for every single gas station explosion you see in fiction.

And the energy density formula is strictly for calculating the energy yield of a fuel when it combusts. In a proper explosion with an overpressure where things are violently sent flying back and everything within the vicinity is utterly obliterated including concrete and steel, we ditch the energy density altogether and just assume explosive radius.

Remember, overpressure is the key word you're looking for. No overpressure, no qualifying explosion feats.

 

[KLOL506]

But, we don't assume some Tier 6 Ultravoilet wave was Quintillions of degrees Celsius for instance.

I half agree and half disagree. We can consider it as a possibility, ruling out the possibility of equilibrium (so we assume that they probably absorbed all of the energy), but we CANNOT use this temperature value in calcs as that would be calc stacking.

No, that's not how calc stacking works. Calc stacking is only when we make assumptions using a calc we made up ourselves. Using a value given in the fictional medium itself should be fine unless inconsistencies pop up.

 

[Jaakubb]

I agree. The problem is DDM is using this to mischaracterize my argument.

What Jaakubb is arguing would still implying tanking the epic center of a gas ignation feat would be 8-B which Kepekley and Antoniofer argued against a while back.

Now that we all agree on this, let's just drop this whole "gas explosion" argument. There's no more point in discussing it. I'll just pretend DDM never brought this up.

 

[Jaakubb]

Whatever, I don't really care if it's calc stacking or not. I don't support DDM's proposed calc method, and if I were to oppose it I wouldn't use calc stacking as a point. I would just point out that there are much better ways to calc heat dura.

Do we at least agree that it's possibly for said Tier 6 wave to be at such a high temperature that equilibrium has little to no effect on the amount of energy tanked by the character?

 

[KLOL506]

That I don't know anything about. All I know is that if a specific value is given in fiction, whether it be speed or temperature or kinetic energy or a power multiplier, we can use that as long as nothing contradicts it or as long as inconsistencies remain absent.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

A Tier 6 feat wave would only scale if it's a character's own energy being manipulated. For example, a Dragon breathing fire or an Anime protagonists' Ki blast. And some of those characters scaling via similar methods of feats. But giant wave of plasma or ionizing radiation does not fully scale to durability of a bunch of normal human sized characters without context.

No one is trying to mischaracterize you, but I heard your words through and through and this is what legit came out of it.

 

[Agnaa]

It isn't "Phasing" per say, more like all solid objects do have holes in them even if really tiny to the point of not being visible. Gas and plasma can slip right through them. Nothing really has "100% seals" really Unless the objects were frozen to AZ temperatures.

All solid objects do have tiny holes in them to the point of not being visible, but these are subatomic in size, particles can't actually squeeze their way through them. This includes gas and plasma, one of the main differences between states of matter are how large the gaps between each particle are, the particle sizes are still the same so they can't fit in the subatomic gaps.

There are 100% seals for particles. Heat still escapes by bumping into particles, transferring heat, who then either bump into other particles on the other side, transferring heat, or they gradually radiate heat energy over time.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Water and oil can still get in through your flesh. And also, I brought up stuff about "Ionizing radiation." That stuff is literally the same concept as lightning bolts and UV rays in which it does phase through solid objects with low Emissivity.

 

[Agnaa]

Skin and flesh are complex materials that are designed to both output and input various particles, they're not comparable to a wall of steel atoms. We have created extremely high-pressure and low-pressure environments on Earth. If they weren't 100% seals they would go to equilibrium almost immediately.

Ionizing radiation is either composed of electromagnetic waves, or by subatomic particles. I'm not commenting on 100% seals for either of these, I'm talking about your claim that gas and plasma can just slip right through other solid matter.

 

[Jaakubb]

Agnaa is being pretty based right now.

Also DDM, electromagnetic radiation doesn't always pass through materials. It depends on the material. You can't see through a brick now, can you? But I will admit it does pass through materials often. Not too important, just thought I'd bring it up.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

It can slip through glass, and it is still agreed heat resistance =/= force durability at least for inanimate objects. Hence why glass isn't more durable than solid steel as Ugarik laid out.

 

[Wokistan]

Electricity also doesn't just "phase through solid objects" like that. That's entirely dependent on the material in question having movable electrons of its own, a subatomic particle. Notably, there's a lot of insulators that will stop it's transfer outright, like rubber. Electricity isn't really comparable to heated gas anyways, so idk why it got brought up.

 

[Jaakubb]

It can slip through glass, and it is still agreed heat resistance =/= force durability at least for inanimate objects.

Only because heat resistance and force durability aren't linearly related. Not because of any of this ridiculous "plasma can phase through objects" nonsense.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

None of this changes the outcome. Waves of chemical/thermal/ionizing blasts only use this calculator for applying durability. We don't assume Overpressure = Thermal energy as the norm unless the properties are scientific to the point where that gets to there since. Thermal energy doesn't have anywhere near the amount of energy density as Overpressure. And Calc Stacking is strictly against the rules, period.

 

[Jaakubb]

None of this changes the outcome. Waves of chemical/thermal/ionizing blasts only use this calculator for applying durability.

Says who?

 

[KLOL506]

The Stefan-Boltzmann law

 

[Jaakubb]

The calculator only calcs how much energy an object radiates given its surface temperature. And surface temperature usually isn't given. Surface temperature is significantly lower than just general temperature, and forgetting about this has led to some inflated results. It is now accepted that the plasma pistol's power is actually around 8-C, not tier 6.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

We should just close this thread, save it to Archive or as a PDF, then post a link to said file/page once the forum move occurs. Obviously it seems that very few people here are intent on waiting for that before they continue debating.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Will do.