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General DC Comics Discussion Thread

Absolutely not. Remember, New-52 Superman is the Post-Crisis Superman, but with manipulations by Doctor Manhattan to the timeline such as the JSA being removed from history. Doctor Manhattan also erased 10 years from history and made many other alterations. So New-52 Superman is a young, far less experienced, and far less powerful Superman than his Post-Crisis self. All of the changes by Doctor Manhattan have further contributed to his reduced state. There is no way that this weak superman scales to the Anti-Monitor in any capacity. There is nothing he has done that warrants anything higher than 4B. At best he would downscale from He-Man; however, this is not allowed.
 
PromptedElephant641 said:
Absolutely not. Remember, New-52 Superman is the Post-Crisis Superman, but with manipulations by Doctor Manhattan to the timeline such as the JSA being removed from history. Doctor Manhattan also erased 10 years from history and made many other alterations. So New-52 Superman is a young, far less experienced, and far less powerful Superman than his Post-Crisis self. All of the changes by Doctor Manhattan have further contributed to his reduced state. There is no way that this weak superman scales to the Anti-Monitor in any capacity. There is nothing he has done that warrants anything higher than 4B. At best he would downscale from He-Man; however, this is not allowed.
Click to expand...
the apokolips transformed him so he able to tanked the blast of anti monitor
 
PromptedElephant641 said:
Absolutely not. Remember, New-52 Superman is the Post-Crisis Superman, but with manipulations by Doctor Manhattan to the timeline such as the JSA being removed from history. Doctor Manhattan also erased 10 years from history and made many other alterations. So New-52 Superman is a young, far less experienced, and far less powerful Superman than his Post-Crisis self. All of the changes by Doctor Manhattan have further contributed to his reduced state. There is no way that this weak superman scales to the Anti-Monitor in any capacity. There is nothing he has done that warrants anything higher than 4B. At best he would downscale from He-Man; however, this is not allowed.
Click to expand...
He litterally fought him alongside the justice league what do you mean ?
Also just because he starts off weaker than post crisis supes doesn't mean he can't get any stronger. Thats like saying TOP Goku can't be stronger than Buu saga Vegito.
 
Physical world emanation of newgods in Multiversity is very contradict, Here with scans provided.

If its a physical emanation of darkseid like what stated in multiversity where each parallel world hosting its own new gods, then Mobius should have encountered other Darkseid in the other parallel world he destroyed before arriving on the main Earth. However, no other emanations of Darkseid appear during that sequence & the comic only shows one Darkseid. The same darkseid or godworld Batman stated they're somewhere else rather than just being parallel world and the guardian who knowing everything of universe don't knowing apokolips stuff.

Also while mobius traveling through other parallel world & destroy it, metron even stated darkseid wrath will come for him. This indicates Mobius never encountered with darkseid when he destroyed another parallel world which mean there is no physical world emanation of new gods like what it stated in multiversity.

Darkseid War actually depicts elements of the multiverse, featuring characters from parallel worlds, including alternate versions of Superman, Batman, and others. Yet it does not show multiple emanations of the New Gods, such as separate versions of Darkseid from Earth-2 or Earth-3, as one might expect based on The Multiversity's emanation of newgods. Instead, the story presents only one set of New Gods, one Apokolips, and one New Genesis. These realms are described as existing "somewhere else" outside the multiverse, and even the Guardian, despite knowing everything within the universe, is unable to identify them.

Superman couldn't simply fly from Apokolips back to Earth casually in his base level. He explicitly stated that the only way to get home was through a Boom Tube, the same way he had been transported there. After ascending to God of Strength Superman, he was able to travel back to Earth using only his own flight.

it consistent with how apokolips always referred as another world and only accessible via boomtube like here & here before emanation is a thing.
 
KirbyFan03 said:
The greatest villain in all of comics!
Click to expand...
Son...
image.png
 
Frankky123 said:
Physical world emanation of newgods in Multiversity is very contradict, Here with scans provided.

If its a physical emanation of darkseid like what stated in multiversity where each parallel world hosting its own new gods, then Mobius should have encountered other Darkseid in the other parallel world he destroyed before arriving on the main Earth. However, no other emanations of Darkseid appear during that sequence & the comic only shows one Darkseid. The same darkseid or godworld Batman stated they're somewhere else rather than just being parallel world and the guardian who knowing everything of universe don't knowing apokolips stuff.

Also while mobius traveling through other parallel world & destroy it, metron even stated darkseid wrath will come for him. This indicates Mobius never encountered with darkseid when he destroyed another parallel world which mean there is no physical world emanation of new gods like what it stated in multiversity.

Darkseid War actually depicts elements of the multiverse, featuring characters from parallel worlds, including alternate versions of Superman, Batman, and others. Yet it does not show multiple emanations of the New Gods, such as separate versions of Darkseid from Earth-2 or Earth-3, as one might expect based on The Multiversity's emanation of newgods. Instead, the story presents only one set of New Gods, one Apokolips, and one New Genesis. These realms are described as existing "somewhere else" outside the multiverse, and even the Guardian, despite knowing everything within the universe, is unable to identify them.

Superman couldn't simply fly from Apokolips back to Earth casually in his base level. He explicitly stated that the only way to get home was through a Boom Tube, the same way he had been transported there. After ascending to God of Strength Superman, he was able to travel back to Earth using only his own flight.

it consistent with how apokolips always referred as another world and only accessible via boomtube like here & here before emanation is a thing.
Click to expand...
Also you  do realize that this flying stuff proves the point of it being the higher dimensional godsphere and NOT the true one which is consistent with the stuff I've shown

A private continuum beyond infinite universes

But the N52 cosmology doesn't have infinite universes
 
KirbyFan03 said:
Also you  do realize that this flying stuff proves the point of it being the higher dimensional godsphere and NOT the true one which is consistent with the stuff I've shown

A private continuum beyond infinite universes

But the N52 cosmology doesn't have infinite universes
Click to expand...
So we all agree apokolips that powered Superman is not the emanation like in multiversity, which is tier 1?
 
Parademons vs doom demons seem fun

Parademons are surprisingly haxy Mfers

And in Stats they're hypersonic+ and building in AP matching decently with doom demons

Then there's the stronger variations ESPECIALLY the purple organic ones that are just herald Stat bricks lol
 
KirbyFan03 said:
Darkseid was dying iirc
Click to expand...
Btw, I don't understand why you're saying that the New 52 never touched the Sphere of the Gods. Wasn't that name introduced in map of multiverse in the New 52?

before the DC cosmology map was released, Apokolips was often described as "another world" and other similar terms which actually refer to sphere of gods Although the map not exist yet?
 
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Frankky123 said:
Btw, I don't understand why you're saying that the New 52 never touched the Sphere of the Gods. Wasn't that name introduced in map of multiverse in the New 52?

before the DC cosmology map was released, Apokolips was often described as "another world" and other similar terms which actually refer to sphere of gods Although the map not exist yet?
Click to expand...
The Map of the Multiverse was created during the New 52 era to define the multiversal structure after The Flashpoint. The Multiverse Guidebook #1 even mentioned The Flashpoint, and the fifty-two universes during that period were closed off from the broader reality, but higher realms like the Sphere of the Gods remained the same. They were not lesser versions. It's just that Darkseid operated through lesser aspects of himself across the Multiverse.
 
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Elizio33 said:
The Map of the Multiverse was created during the New 52 era to define the multiversal structure after The Flashpoint. The Multiverse Guidebook #1 even mentioned The Flashpoint, and the fifty-two universes during that period were closed off from the broader reality, but higher realms like the Sphere of the Gods remained the same. They were not lesser versions. It's just that Darkseid operated through lesser aspects of himself across the Multiverse.
Click to expand...

I agree that all New Gods are lesser versions of themselves when they enter Earth. However, I have never seen the comics portray lesser versions of the God Worlds themselves, at least not in the New 52. This suggests that the God Worlds only exist in the Sphere of the Gods.

I also do not think that every writer consistently follows the idea introduced in The Multiversity that the New Gods have emanations in every universe like what i typed below this reply. As I mentioned below, the God Worlds are often portrayed as "another world" rather than a parallel worlds which mean they are not in the multiverse. This indicates that the God Worlds themselves do not have emanations in each universe. Maybe Godworld exist only within the Sphere of the Gods. then the Apokolips that empowered Superman to become the God of Strength was most likely the true Apokolips in the Sphere of the Gods. Also that multiversity only stated the emanation is only the new gods entity not the God world itself like apokolips & new genesis.



Correct me if im wrong
Frankky123 said:
Physical world emanation of newgods in Multiversity is very contradict, Here with scans provided.

If its a physical emanation of darkseid like what stated in multiversity where each parallel world hosting its own new gods, then Mobius should have encountered other Darkseid in the other parallel world he destroyed before arriving on the main Earth. However, no other emanations of Darkseid appear during that sequence & the comic only shows one Darkseid. The same darkseid or godworld Batman stated they're somewhere else rather than just being parallel world and the guardian who knowing everything of universe don't knowing apokolips stuff.

Also while mobius traveling through other parallel world & destroy it, metron even stated darkseid wrath will come for him. This indicates Mobius never encountered with darkseid when he destroyed another parallel world which mean there is no physical world emanation of new gods like what it stated in multiversity.

Darkseid War actually depicts elements of the multiverse, featuring characters from parallel worlds, including alternate versions of Superman, Batman, and others. Yet it does not show multiple emanations of the New Gods, such as separate versions of Darkseid from Earth-2 or Earth-3, as one might expect based on The Multiversity's emanation of newgods. Instead, the story presents only one set of New Gods, one Apokolips, and one New Genesis. These realms are described as existing "somewhere else" outside the multiverse, and even the Guardian, despite knowing everything within the universe, is unable to identify them.

Superman couldn't simply fly from Apokolips back to Earth casually in his base level. He explicitly stated that the only way to get home was through a Boom Tube, the same way he had been transported there. After ascending to God of Strength Superman, he was able to travel back to Earth using only his own flight.

it consistent with how apokolips always referred as another world and only accessible via boomtube like here & here before emanation is a thing.
Click to expand...
 
Frankky123 said:
Btw, I don't understand why you're saying that the New 52 never touched the Sphere of the Gods. Wasn't that name introduced in map of multiverse in the New 52?

before the DC cosmology map was released, Apokolips was often described as "another world" and other similar terms which actually refer to sphere of gods Although the map not exist yet?
Click to expand...
Morrison has stated all prior appearances of Darkseid prior to Final Crisis were emanations

Then there's current stuff solidifying that the godworlds work through emanations through Ram Vs stuff like the godworlds existing in dimensional space
 
New-52 Superman, when translated from the physical world to the worlds of New Genesis or Apokolips, does not change his tier in any way relative to the inhabitants of these worlds. He is 4B in the normal universe (he can effect a solar system in the regular universe) and when in the metaphysical universe that New Genesis inhabits, he is still 4B relative to its inhabitants. It works as follows: you have a regular universe that is low-2C that contains the usual stuff such as stars, planets, galaxies, galactic filaments etc, the same is true of the qualitatively higher world that New Genesis and Apokolips inhabit. So New-52 Superman, who is 4B on Earth, when in the higher world of New Genesis he is still 4B in relation to the environment of the higher universe itself. This is not always obvious as planets and stars in the plane that the Godworlds inhabit are typically not shown. Additionally, Apokolips and New Genesis are not standard planets even on their higher plane of reality, they are extreme outliers. Both worlds are fragments of the original singular Godworld Ugrund which dwarfed entire galaxies, as such, even in reference to their higher plane, the Godworlds are MASSIVE.

As for scaling to the Anti-Monitor, I don't see why he would. I read through the entire Darksied War storyline and Batman with the Mobius Chair itself says "If the Anti-Monitor refuses to leave, we have no idea how to stop him". This happened before the Anti-Monitor and Darkseid fought. It is clear that there is no comparison to be made between the Justice League and the Anti-Monitor. During and after the Darkseid War various members of the Justice League gained power ups, such as Superman who gained power from the fire pits of Apokolips. These are temporary amps that are not significant enough to the overall plot of DC comics to warrant a profile or key and they do not have enough appearances to satisfy the DC / Marvel character profile rules anyways. As for fighting the Anti-Monitor, God of Strength Superman did fight him, but this was the far far weaker greatly reduced Anti-Monitor, post fight with Darkseid, who had cast off much of his power as well as the Anti-Life equation. This version of the Anti-Monitor even discusses how he is glad that he no longer has his cosmic level powers as it allows him to appreciate the suffering he inflicts more when acting on a more personal scale. This weak version of the Anti-Montior was still superior to Superman. He takes on a significant number of Green Lanterns, obliterates Ultraman, fights and eventually overpowers God of Apokolips Lex Luthor, and forces God of Strength Superman to expend all of his fire pit energy all at once to which the Anti-Monitor states that this hurt Superman more than himself. As I have stated there is no way for New-52 Superman to be any higher than what he is already rated and he is at an appropriate level. Furthermore, the staff are unlikely to ever accept such a change.
 
PromptedElephant641 said:
New-52 Superman, when translated from the physical world to the worlds of New Genesis or Apokolips, does not change his tier in any way relative to the inhabitants of these worlds. He is 4B in the normal universe (he can effect a solar system in the regular universe) and when in the metaphysical universe that New Genesis inhabits, he is still 4B relative to its inhabitants. It works as follows: you have a regular universe that is low-2C that contains the usual stuff such as stars, planets, galaxies, galactic filaments etc, the same is true of the qualitatively higher world that New Genesis and Apokolips inhabit. So New-52 Superman, who is 4B on Earth, when in the higher world of New Genesis he is still 4B in relation to the environment of the higher universe itself. This is not always obvious as planets and stars in the plane that the Godworlds inhabit are typically not shown. Additionally, Apokolips and New Genesis are not standard planets even on their higher plane of reality, they are extreme outliers. Both worlds are fragments of the original singular Godworld Ugrund which dwarfed entire galaxies, as such, even in reference to their higher plane, the Godworlds are MASSIVE.

As for scaling to the Anti-Monitor, I don't see why he would. I read through the entire Darksied War storyline and Batman with the Mobius Chair itself says "If the Anti-Monitor refuses to leave, we have no idea how to stop him". This happened before the Anti-Monitor and Darkseid fought. It is clear that there is no comparison to be made between the Justice League and the Anti-Monitor. During and after the Darkseid War various members of the Justice League gained power ups, such as Superman who gained power from the fire pits of Apokolips. These are temporary amps that are not significant enough to the overall plot of DC comics to warrant a profile or key and they do not have enough appearances to satisfy the DC / Marvel character profile rules anyways. As for fighting the Anti-Monitor, God of Strength Superman did fight him, but this was the far far weaker greatly reduced Anti-Monitor, post fight with Darkseid, who had cast off much of his power as well as the Anti-Life equation. This version of the Anti-Monitor even discusses how he is glad that he no longer has his cosmic level powers as it allows him to appreciate the suffering he inflicts more when acting on a more personal scale. This weak version of the Anti-Montior was still superior to Superman. He takes on a significant number of Green Lanterns, obliterates Ultraman, fights and eventually overpowers God of Apokolips Lex Luthor, and forces God of Strength Superman to expend all of his fire pit energy all at once to which the Anti-Monitor states that this hurt Superman more than himself. As I have stated there is no way for New-52 Superman to be any higher than what he is already rated and he is at an appropriate level. Furthermore, the staff are unlikely to ever accept such a change.
Click to expand...
Doesnt its Inhabitant should scale higher for being superior to earth
 
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PromptedElephant641 said:
 Snip
Click to expand...
Yeah AM and Darkaeid are superior to the League, however they are not tiers above them. At her peak Jessica Cruz momentarily overpowered both Darkseid and Anti-Monitor.
Also about Mobius being seperated from Anti-life, a guidebook states he is even more dangerous in this form and even if you think he was that powerful cause of Anti life, at the end Darkseid gets reserected with Anti life and base superman can still match him.
On top of that right before he was about to die, new52 supes also knocks post-crisis supes (this same pc supes traded blows with other supermans kile kingdom come in converge), plus he has that feat of punching Brainiac across the multiverse.
 
This is might be a stupid question.

Why new gods cant revive their own aspect as we know metron died at the end of new52 and got revived by chronicler with the book tittle "Rise of The New Gods" rather than "Rise of New Gods Aspect". Looks like he's really dead.

Im very confused with these emanation thing, but nvm, when will we upgrade Superboy Prime?!
 
Frankky123 said:
This is might be a stupid question.

Why new gods cant revive their own aspect as we know metron died at the end of new52 and got revived by chronicler with the book tittle "Rise of The New Gods" rather than "Rise of New Gods Aspect". Looks like he's really dead.

Im very confused with these emanation thing, but nvm, when will we upgrade Superboy Prime?!
Click to expand...
While Godheads DO exist and are even referenced in the 20s with Snyder and Williamson

Rule of thumb is that when writers write on The New Gods they treat the physical beings as the actual gods themselves when Morrisons cosmology and Snyder and Joshua's references do show they follow the emanation route in broader DC
 
KirbyFan03 said:
While Godheads DO exist and are even referenced in the 20s with Snyder and Williamson

Rule of thumb is that when writers write on The New Gods they treat the physical beings as the actual gods themselves when Morrisons cosmology and Snyder and Joshua's references do show they follow the emanation route in broader DC
Click to expand...
Does Superman flying from apokolips give some upgrade to his speed at least
 


New 52 doomsday broke the phantom zone, should be high 3A feat (batman/superman 2013 issue 11)

Since the phantom zone is accepted on this site to be consistently stated to be infinite



I wanna make thread to get new 52 heralds to high 3A, how you guys feel?
 
PromptedElephant641 said:
He is 4B in the normal universe (he can effect a solar system in the regular universe) and when in the metaphysical universe that New Genesis inhabits, he is still 4B relative to its inhabitants. It works as follows: you have a regular universe that is low-2C that contains the usual stuff such as stars, planets, galaxies, galactic filaments etc, the same is true of the qualitatively higher world that New Genesis and Apokolips inhabit. So New-52 Superman, who is 4B on Earth, when in the higher world of New Genesis he is still 4B in relation to the environment of the higher universe itself. This is not always obvious as planets and stars in the plane that the Godworlds inhabit are typically not shown. Additionally, Apokolips and New Genesis are not standard planets even on their higher plane of reality, they are extreme outliers. Both worlds are fragments of the original singular Godworld Ugrund which dwarfed entire galaxies, as such, even in reference to their higher plane, the Godworlds are MASSIVE.
Click to expand...
The Metaphysical Realms

Due to their existence outside of the material realms, these realms are beyond our physics-based conception of the spatiotemporal multiverse. Many DC writers like to treat them collectively as "Platonic Realms" or as "Fictions".

vsbattles.fandom.com

DC Comics Cosmology

This page is dedicated to outlining the distinctions between DC Comics's different cosmologies. To summarize, the DC Universe has three dominant cosmologies characterized primarily (but not exclusively) by their authors: Grant Morrison, Scott Snyder, James Tynion IV, and Joshua Williamson; J.M...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com

Are you referring to this metaphysical realm?
 
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