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Yea, stuff was recent and weird
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General DC Comics Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Confluctor
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- dc comics
Yea, stuff was recent and weird
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Definitely not 2-A feat on own. it is 2-A under chainscaling.
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Stuff was written by someone who doesn't understand the power system (most comic writers XD)
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Isn't that stated when Gods and High Tiers travel to Material World they will decrease their power.
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I mean Mxy a 5D being is scared of a 4D being
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Mr Mxyzptlk is scared of Master Txyz in the same way that I am scared of house centipedes. The Fourth Dimension is still incomprehensibly inferior to the Fifth Dimension.
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Uh, he said it himself
4D demon is like a bear/cavemen compared to 5D imp which is like a human
Humans can't fist fight bears
Even bears can kill humans with weapons
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I did not say that Post-Crisis Superman has no ability to scale to Pre-Crisis characters, I stated that if people do not want to do that I am okay with that, but I am not for or against it. As for Rebirth Superman, he is definitely far above his 2A Post-Crisis self, but I would not say that he has reached a low-1C level the way that Pre-Crisis superman did. As for the Time Trapper, he is a glass cannon character and relies more on his extremely potent time manipulation and hax abilities, he is not a brawler, so Rebirth Superman manhandling him is not exactly a particularly impressive feat. Additionally, even the universal forms of Time Trapper can forcefully keep INFINITE versions of the legion of Superheroes in stasis, so if you were to scale Rebirth Superman to the Time Trapper, you would be saying that Superman is stronger than infinite versions of the Legion of Superheroes which is straight up impossible as there are even multiple individuals in the Legion that are equal to Superman. Additionally, as I stated above, since universal Time Trapper can manipulate ALL timelines in a single universe this makes him 1C (6D) which rebirth Supemran has no feats on that level. As for King in Hell Doomsday, that is impressive and places Rebirth Superman significantly above baseline 2A. As for the Captain Atom DC KO fiasco, Superman does not and can not scale to Captain Atom under any circumstance, Captain Atom has multiple varies mechanisms and his power varies up to High-1A. Besides, Captain Atom stops fighting Superman and starts fighting the Heart of Apokolips itself even becoming its equal. The Heart of Apokolips is the very engine that empowers both Absolute / King Omega Darkseid and King Omega Superman which is extremely impressive on captain Atoms part. (They should have just had Captain Atom fight King Omega Darkseid to begin with as he clearly does not need any amps to do so and he has even better feats than this anyways. Captain Atom is just that guy.) If Superman truly was that powerful, he would not have participated in the tournament to begin with as he would have just taken the fight to Darkseid directly. Superman of course is the moral pillar of the DC universe and would not have participated in a tournament in which he had to fight and even kill his friends unless there literally was no other option. Superman in the past was brutally tortured for a hundred years by Gog (with Gog killing countless versions of Superman throughout the timeline as well) because, he refused to go back in time and kill someone such that the tragic circumstances that happened to Gog would have never occurred in the first place. To Superman, sacrificing one person even to save an infinite number is not worth it. Sacrifice a person to save others nullifies any positive outcome. As for Lobo, he is hard to pin down. At times he is incredibly unimpressive, and at other times he is treated like a cartoon character, doing things such as eating an entire city all at once even though his power set is simply super human strength, immortality, and regeneration. People often say things about a character like "That character can do whatever the author wants them to do" and that literally applies to Lobo given how wildly different he is portrayed by different writers. The problem with Lobo is he does not have a valid concrete varies mechanism so there is no in universe reason as to why he varies so much in power between appearances.
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Uh, he said it himself
4D demon is like a bear/cavemen compared to 5D imp which is like a human
Humans can't fist fight bears
Mr Mxyzptlk says a lot of things. His entire thing is being a joker and prankster and an over all semi malicious goofball of a character. One should not scale a character to Mr Mxyzptlk's full extent UNLESS the feat takes place inside the Fifth Dimension itself. Gog once literally one shot Mr Mxyzptlk putting a hole straight through his body such that his organs and vaporized rib cage was visible and then he fled back to the fifth Dimension. This does not mean that Gog scales to Mr Mxyzptlk.
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Well thats true. I am just saying DC Cosmology works on way "Higher World inhabitants travel to Lower World -> They have less power". Hence Mr Mxy in Material world is Superman Level Physically while having smurf hax. I wanted to actually split even Spectre and PS in near future(Cuz New 52 seems like to have only one key for them)
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Uh, some of this is just straight up misinformation
Captain atom was completely overpowered and controlled by the heart of apokolips
He attempted to fight it but failed so he just resumed the fight with supes
Superman was literally no diffing gog, only being defeated due to kryptonite which gog has
Gog's equipments are anti supe's
Hence, why he can kill Superman's via red suns and kryptonite
Damaging credibility here
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Point 1: "YOU FOOL. I CAN CONTROL TIME, SPACE, AND ALL REALITY. WITH ALL MY SELVES COMBINED I AM THE HEART'S EQUAL, AND AS THE HEART TRIES TO CREATE A NEW ARENA, I WILL USE IT AS AN OPENING TO STEAL BACK CONTROL! WE DON'T NEED TO FIGHT EACH OTHER NOW!" - DC KO: Superman vs Captain Atom
Point 2: That scan literally has nothing to do with what I said and I don't believe that that Gog is the same Gog that tortured a version of Superman for a hundred years. Besides Gog in The Kingdom is far above Superman so I don't know what point you are trying to make. Besides the point I was making was about Superman's morals and character not whether he can punch some one harder. Please read what has been written in the future.
2-0 cry.
Point 2: That scan literally has nothing to do with what I said and I don't believe that that Gog is the same Gog that tortured a version of Superman for a hundred years. Besides Gog in The Kingdom is far above Superman so I don't know what point you are trying to make. Besides the point I was making was about Superman's morals and character not whether he can punch some one harder. Please read what has been written in the future.
2-0 cry.
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1. "The heart is using your powers against you" - superman to captain atom
According to you, captain atom would have just stopped fighting supes and fight the heart of apokolips (which he didn't and failed to do)
He had to resume fighting supes in the tournament
2. This is gog from the kingdom comic
The same fraud that has to used red suns + kryptonite to beat superman
Th kingdom 1999 issue 1
I already talked to hecky about John scaling/being superior to 2A key of Mr mxyzptlks
Not arguing 1A john
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In The Kingdom Vol1 #2, Gog can shrug off being teleported to the phantom zone by the phantom zone project from pure invulnerability alone. He also takes on and over powers the combined forces of the Justice League including multiple supermen. In Kingdom Come, the Justice league are older and stronger than their mainstream universe counterparts. Ulimtately they could NOT defeat him and BFR'd him into Hypertime. A different version of Gog that appeared in Justice Society of America Vol3 was taking on the entire JSA of the mainstream universe including the older more powerful Kingdom Come Superman. Anyway, I did not come to this website to argue so I am not going to engage with this further as it has nothing to do with my original points and I am not an argumentative person. Though if you do have some valid high end superman feats please post them though as I am sure we would all like to see them.
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While the time trapper hax makes sense I do suggest rereading the DC KO event
As Superman holding back was competing with a completely bloodlusted Captain Atom/Monarch fusion
CA was also one shotted by The Heart of Apokolips as it sent him to his literal lifeline/timeline for he and supes to fight in. Which lead to Monarch using two moments of his history to smash into Superman creating an "origin bomb" which backfired
Captain Atom/Monarch clearly wanted to win but he had no means of killing Superman on his own and the one attempt that he did backfired significantly
Also The Heart of Apokolips was clearly corrupting him with Omega Energy so I don't think you can argue Captain Atom scales at all to Darkseids King Omega Form or The Heart of Apokolips
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With that being said where do you want / think Superman should scale to?
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1-A Superman because it's based
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well we would all like that but realistically speaking where would you rate him?
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Also he has the King of Doomsday feat which can get outer if you think DD affected the true Hell
And the writers doing Captain Atom DIRTY against him for feats
And the writers doing Captain Atom DIRTY against him for feats
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Obviously higher than 2-A
But ik CA has some stuff that does put him on the godsphere at full power which I don't think was used in the event
So Supes should upscale Monarch massively, on a funny note: Superman Prime 1 million couldn't take Super Monarch on a 1v1 and had to use hax while BASE SUPERMAN ran the fade against a bloodlusted Super Monarch which is funny tho
I thhiiiiiiink scaling him to the full extent of the physical world or at least orrery would do
ExcelsisBerny
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You are not getting Hecky’s argument at all. He is not calling into question whether the verse operates with “geometric infinities.”
What he is trying to say is that “all possible” is a context dependent quantificational phrase. Its meaning depends on the domain of possibilities made relevant by the discourse (not on an unrestricted totality).
While it is true that “all” is a universal quantifier, universal quantifiers normally require a contextual domain.
For example:
Take “all possible moves.”
In chess, this does not mean every bodily movement a player could physically perform. It means every legal move under the rules of chess.
Or take “all possible explanations.”
This does not necessarily mean every conceivable world in an unrestricted metaphysical sense. It means every world inside the relevant modal domain being discussed.
And this should be evident, since semantically, “possible” is a modal term, and modal terms are usually relative to a conversational background.
So yeah. “All possible dimensions” is not Low 1-A unless you can prove that the system operates quantitatively as a proper class, which is why it is an extremely difficult tier to reach. Any level of infinity above the conventional one falls under High 1-B+.
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That would never get approved though AND it would not be consistent. I guess Post-Crisis Superman could be 2A possibly low-1C. If his feat against Imperiex Prime was done without the amp from Kismet then he would have some low-1C/1C feats but unfortunately she was doing the heavy lifting there.
Captain Atoms profile is pretty good for DC profile standards, but it is still missing a lot of stuff. In fact at his full capacity, Captain Atom is FAR beyond Sphere of the Gods level. The thing with Superman Prime One Million is another problem as he is the mainstream Superman in the 853 millennium so he is the exact same guy but more powerful in the future yet he couldn't beat monarch 1v1. The other thing is that both Monarch and Superman Prime One Million DIE to COLD????! which is a massive inconsistency and anti feat for both of them as both characters are immune to temperature. The comic does not portray EITHER Superman or Captain Atom particularly well. All in All DC KO was not well written particularly this issue and the one with Wonder Woman where she is allowed to cheat and have back up allies (what kind of writing is that?). I have Tier justification for Superman prime One Million that I have worked on that I will eventually post. Superman can scale to or above Hank Hall Monarch, but Countdown Monarch absolutely Mogs every version of Superman.
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Oh I agree DC KO was a slopfest when it came to writing the character's powers but it was fun to read
Prime 1 million used his ice breath to freeze the sun which also froze/slowed down quantum fields.... when Captain Atoms whole shtick is manipulating that stuff. In the same issue he could turn superman's atoms into nothingness (neat feat)
As for the Wonder Woman bit... her calling on allies wasn't too bad... until THE FREAKING PRESENCE SHOWED UP TO SAVE HER ARSE
Overall the issue did Captain Atom/Monarch dirty to boost Superman
Hank Hall Monarch works perfectly too so it can be consistent
As Countdown Monarch could threaten the Monitors iirc
But it would be so so funny if he did upscale Countdown Monarch XD
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Uh, he said it himself
4D demon is like a bear/cavemen compared to 5D imp which is like a human
Humans can't fist fight bears
Even bears can kill humans with weapons
I think it's best to eye twitch at because THEY EVEN ACKNOWLEDGE THE 1D DIFFERENCE
Like vro the writer was typing shit on his typewriter or something
But we powerscalers complain too much
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It is unfortunate that for the most part, comics where heroes fight heroes rarely end up written well because the writers are tip toeing around making certain characters look bad and it just comes down to which character is more popular and has greater name recognition than the other. This was of course why things like the Aquaman vs Hawkman issue were more enjoyable because while Aquaman has name recognition he does not have a vast fanbase.Oh I agree DC KO was a slopfest when it came to writing the character's powers but it was fun to read
Prime 1 million used his ice breath to freeze the sun which also froze/slowed down quantum fields.... when Captain Atoms whole shtick is manipulating that stuff. In the same issue he could turn superman's atoms into nothingness (neat feat)
As for the Wonder Woman bit... her calling on allies wasn't too bad... until THE FREAKING PRESENCE SHOWED UP TO SAVE HER ARSE
Overall the issue did Captain Atom/Monarch dirty to boost Superman
Hank Hall Monarch works perfectly too so it can be consistent
As Countdown Monarch could threaten the Monitors iirc
But it would be so so funny if he did upscale Countdown Monarch XD
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You just had to say “the extension of the term being quantified by the modifier ‘all possible’ is context-dependent” without having to go into universal quantification being limited by the domain of the quantified variable. This isn’t a philosophy course lol.
And yeah, obviously, it’s context-dependent. But the context here is with regard to higher dimensional-spaces, including ones beyond comprehension, etc., just generalizing that to “all possible dimensions” is sufficient for Low 1-A. The burden for that tier isn’t even that sufficiently high, “superiority over dimensions” as noted is even fine without any other explanation (given the dimensions aren’t just distinct space-times).
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Justice league society of America vol 3 issue 22 shows superman decapitating gog after he got 1 tap by full strength nathan
Also supes tanking one of his beams (supes specifically the only 1 who was taking it easy and did very little things while the rest of the league were doing their thing on gog)
-Gog got his skin burnt off from the phantom zone projector, this isn't shrugging off damage lmao
-his beams bounce back on him after blasting superman, damaging himself the same as supes (you cannot say supes doesn't scale to the beam that damage him and gog lol)
-seems like gog's powers are random In each comic but 1 thing stays the same, kryptonite and red suns are consistently there
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Speaking of Aquaman vs Hawkman that was a damn wash too XD
Not even the powers of an Egyptian God could save Hawkman from the 0-2
Overall ye I thinking we're at an agreement
Superman defo has higher than 2-A feats and scales above some versions of CA but the highest of the highest ends he doesn't for consistencies sake since, while this is a big crisis event and is current stuff is more of a new level for supes (?)
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Yeah at least this event centered around Superman instead of the usual endless Batslop DC has been pumping out for at least the past 10 years. They couldn't even keep Batman dead for a few issues before he comes back due to Motherbox stuff. It is not that I do not like Batman, he is great, but I think I have permanent Batman exhaustion from Dark Nights: Metal and Death Metal and all of the Dark Multiverse batman stuff.
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Because my friend, currently DC is run by Scott Snyder who can't write an event comic (DC KO is a literal rehash of Death Metal)
His sole profession is giving Batman sloppies
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The Batman who Laughs could have been a well written character if he hadn't vastly overstayed his welcome and if he had been permanently killed at the end of dark Nights: Metal. Additionally they didn't need to overdue all of the Dark Multiverse Batman stuff. Unfortunately they kept him around and overused him, and combined with bad marry sue writing, by the time he becomes The Darkest Knight, he is such an awful character that Arthur Light, the Post-Crisis Doctor Light, who is a literal PDF file has more redeeming characteristics than TDK. DC keeps trying to center comic level events around Batman which doesn't work since he is not a person who typically deals with cosmic threats. When he is written well, he has some of the best stories in DC otherwise we are served up an endless pig trough of Batslop 
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ExcelsisBerny
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K.
No, it is not. I literally just explained to you that “all possible” is limited to the set of higher dimensions the verse has/shows.
And yes, the burden is indeed high. The problem is that the Tiering System page is badly worded. There is still an open staff thread where they are thinking of modifying that part.
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As I said, modern DC is (mostly) slop due to Snyder giving Batman sloppiesThe Batman who Laughs could have been a well written character if he hadn't vastly overstayed his welcome and if he had been permanently killed at the end of dark Nights: Metal. Additionally they didn't need to overdue all of the Dark Multiverse Batman stuff. Unfortunately they kept him around and overused him, and combined with bad marry sue writing, by the time he becomes The Darkest Knight, he is such an awful character that Arthur Light, the Post-Crisis Doctor Light, who is a literal PDF file has more redeeming characteristics than TDK. DC keeps trying to center comic level events around Batman which doesn't work since he is not a person who typically deals with cosmic threats. When he is written well, he has some of the best stories in DC otherwise we are served up an endless pig trough of Batslop
Also if there's one thing I can admire Geoff John's for (I hate him remember this) is that he wasn't a Batman wanker
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I thought it was neat...
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...that's not
my thoughts literally
(I enjoyed it for Darkseid and Darkseid only tbf since I'm a Darkseid simp)
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Grant Morriosn's Final Crisis really was DC's Final Crisis. We the readers joined Batman in experiencing the Omega Sanction alongside Batman after he was killed by Darkseid and now we must endure with Batman an infinite series of Batslop realities, each worse than the last. It is time for DC to pack up the Crisis events and take them home. they should go back to what they did in Pre-Crisis where they occasionally had a crossover event with a parallel universe. DC has reached the point where there is a major Crisis every 2 to 3 years cheapening their impact.
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Final Crisis is like the best Crisis event followed by Infinite (or COIE)
Dark Crisis was absolutely buns
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I am totally prepared for Alfred to be resurrected as Super God Emperor Alfred One Million in 2030 in yet another Crisis Event where he will replace Jack Kirby as the human avatar of God/The Source/The Presence.
